2 hours ago, Rhys said:

Temple cats and dogs...are taken care of quite well.

 

There is some good people in some few temples, but dogs should not live on rice only. 

 

8 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

I bet you would change your mind if the pack of wild dogs was living on your street, $hitting everywhere, barking day and night, ripping open bin bags, scaring/attacking people, and getting in the way of traffic.

The dogs is responsible for peoples poor judgement putting food in plastic bags in the street unprotected, when they know whats going to happen? Thats a good one 

 

The only one to blaim is goverment control and people in general for not taking responsibility for their animals. 

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

The dogs is responsible for peoples poor judgement putting food in plastic bags in the street unprotected, when they know whats going to happen? Thats a good one 

 

The only one to blaim is goverment control and people in general for not taking responsibility for their animals. 

The dogs are completely blameless and innocent.  But that doesn't change the situation.

9 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I've lived like this for about 15 years up here, so I don't think I'll change my mind anytime soon.

I don't think any of us are talking about people who live in remote rural areas with spacious properties capable of supporting packs of animals without issue.

 

We're obviously talking about packs of street dogs impacting on people living in the city.

 

If you were living in those same conditions, you would no doubt view things differently.

 

"I don't mind living somewhere in completely different conditions to the situation you describe" is not really that helpful to you here.

11 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

The dogs are completely blameless and innocent.  But that doesn't change the situation.

I love you use of emotions like a grown up man! 
 

Blaming the dogs seems to be the case when they are <deleted>ting everywhere and biting people to who treat them so good.

11 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I love you use of emotions like a grown up man! 
 

Blaming the dogs seems to be the case when they are <deleted>ting everywhere and biting people to who treat them so good.

I'm not sure what point you are making.  What is the relevance of blaming or not blaming the dogs?

3 hours ago, bigupandchill said:

There is only one thing worse than a stray dog and that is a hungry stray dog.

As long as the government don't do something about stray dogs the lady that feeds them got my vote. After all a hungry dog wants meat and it could be your leg.

53 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Proton, I have no problem with anyone killing and eating animals for food. All life is sustained by the taking of other life, whether purposely or unintentionally. What I do have a problem with is people who kill other animals for convenience or, worse yet, for enjoyment. 

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's encounter with a soi dog. I'm also sorry to hear about the abuse and slaughter done to soi dogs.

We do not need to kill animals to eat, all life is NOT sustained by taking other life. Surely killing animals to eat them is convenience? What is not convenient is having millions of strays roaming  about causing a nuisance. If you are going to kill them to eat them what is the problem of killing them if they are pests, barking, crapping, attacking people and causing a traffic hazard? 

3 hours ago, proton said:

Preferably relocated to an incinerator where they can cause no more problems!

If you're going to spend any time in Thailand it might help you understand the local religion.

 

I'll give you a hint. Would you like to be killed and cremated because you lived on the streets? And before you protest that animals aren't people, I'd refer you to my first sentence.

Just now, ozimoron said:

If you're going to spend any time in Thailand it might help you understand the local religion.

If you are going to spend any time in Thailand it might help if you understood the local most popular book publications, which cannot be mentioned of course. Buddhism does not seem  to have a problem with killing for meat, capturing birds and turtles to release for money or cock fighting. The status of soi dogs has very little to do with Buddhism, a lot to do with the unmentionable.

1 hour ago, proton said:

The usual hypocrisy, people claiming animals have a right to be here while eating them ???? -some animals have more rights than others it seems.

Dogs have a right to be here, and if you eat them like some hilltribers do, than the dogs in my area will smell dog on you and they will be all over you. So for us to eat other animals it's part of who we are.

I suggest that parties on both sides of this debate take appropriate action.

That is, donate money to the numerous groups in Thailand that feed and care for stray animals and perform regular neuter/spay operations on every animal they can catch as well as running an efficient and effective adoption program.

 

P.A.W.S RESCUE in Huahin performs such surgeries at over 1000 animals a year with vaccination records well above that. They happily accept any animal brought to them, no questions asked. They expand their operation as their funding increases. Organizations like them represent the ONLY realistic answer to the issue.

 

It's win/win. Either side you're on, you can feel like you are supporting your perspective and taking real action beyond flapping your jaws and gnashing your teeth. Become part of the solution instead of the problem.

 

As for those advocating the simplest solution of killing everything in sight that troubles you:

karma is real. It's also known as The Golden Rule.

51 minutes ago, proton said:

If you are going to spend any time in Thailand it might help if you understood the local most popular book publications, which cannot be mentioned of course. Buddhism does not seem  to have a problem with killing for meat, capturing birds and turtles to release for money or cock fighting. The status of soi dogs has very little to do with Buddhism, a lot to do with the unmentionable.

Exactly. Let me add something even more quasi-buddhistic: torchure of elephants while training them to obey.
I'm completely against anything stray: cats with ringworms feeding at the kindergarten dump, strange looking mongrels fed by local "tam-booners" and "motocy" ppl.

Comes to mind scandals few years ago with corrupt funds of "street dogs".

The Buddhism is so messed-up here

25 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Proton, I repeat: All life is sustained by talking other life. Eating other lifeforms is necessary for us (humans) and most other advanced lifeforms to exist, and that often requires killing them. You could wait until a lifeform is dead, or you could only eat parts of that lifeform without killing it. We do that when we eat fruits. Eating most vegetables, like carrots or lettuce, however, requires killing the plant. I guess you could also only take a leg off of an animal, like a pig, and eat it, leaving the animal alive. I used to do that myself with crabs, only taking a claw if they had two and then throwing them back in the water, knowing they would grow another. But those, I believe, are the exceptions. We, as humans, usually kill the animal or plant we decide to eat.

 

The problem is humans a hubristic. That means we think we're the most important thing on this planet, and all other things, lifeforms and everything else, is just here for our "convenience," to do use, molest, kill, and dismember however we wish. That is why we (humans) are destroying this planet, that along with our technology which is the physical instantiation of our intellect. Those together are allowing us to overpopulate the Earth, and destroy its biosphere in the process.

If you want to learn more about these topics, these are the themes of my recent non-fiction book, The Icarus Syndrome. You can read more about that on its Facebook page at The Icarus Syndrome | Facebook, and find links to buy it or get a free copy.

This is why this issue, soi dogs, is so distasteful to me. It's just another reminder of what <deleted> we (humans) are, and how we're like a cancer on this planet. That is one of the main reasons I choose to live where I do so I have a little contact with <deleted> who think like you describe in your post above as possible.

So you are claiming vegetarians are eating life the same as people eating dead animals are? that's laughable. I have no problem with people scoffing dead cows, pigs and sheep etc. What I fond distasteful is when the same people claim to be 'animal lovers' and start to sob about the suggestion that pest Soi dogs should be eliminated, there is nothing more hypocritical, or stupid.

1 hour ago, vandeventer said:

Dogs have a right to be here, and if you eat them like some hilltribers do, than the dogs in my area will smell dog on you and they will be all over you. So for us to eat other animals it's part of who we are.

You have no problem with the rights of cows, pigs, sheep chickens and fish having no rights to be here then? just nasty unwanted problem mutts roaming the sois. It might be part of who you are to eat some animals while crying about the 'rights' of other animals, but it's illogical and hypocritical.

4 minutes ago, proton said:

So you are claiming vegetarians are eating life the same as people eating dead animals are? that's laughable. I have no problem with people scoffing dead cows, pigs and sheep etc. What I fond distasteful is when the same people claim to be 'animal lovers' and start to sob about the suggestion that pest Soi dogs should be eliminated, there is nothing more hypocritical, or stupid.

Proton, Yes, I am claiming that plants are living beings the same as animals. When we eat, we are usually eating dead life forms that we have killed for that purpose. The only exception to that are fruits, the parts of the plant with seeds that, when taken and eaten, do not harm the plant.

What I find distasteful is anyone who kills lifeforms for convenience or sport. That includes, of course, killing soi dogs, but also any animals that we might encounter, like snakes or mice. Other than food, the only reason I'd accept for killing animals is self-defense, like you killing the soi dog who attacked your wife. But even then, not killing it out of spite or revenge, but defense.

And, our propensity for killing things for our convenience is not limited to animals. We also kill lots of plants to "clear" the land or use the plant, like trees, to build things for our convenience.

And yes, living in an urban area like Bangkok is living the realm of highly hubristic humans who have already accepted the belief that their comfort and convenience is more important than any other lifeform.

 

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

I live up in the mountains of Phetchabun on about 12 rai of land surrounded by jungle. I have 14 dogs, all which were abandoned on the mountain road which runs past our house, presumably by people from Phetchabun and the small villages at the bottom of the mountain. My dogs <deleted> where they want (outside), bark during the day (mostly at intruders) and howl occasionally at night. They do rip open bin bags if I don't secure them, and the do scare intruders, which is an asset living up here, but have never attacked them, like bite them. There's not much traffic up here, but for the most part, they stay off the road, but occasionally get hit by a car, and unfortunately, sometimes that is done intentionally.

 

We spade the females but leave the testes on the males because I think they need the androgen up here to survive.

I've lived like this for about 15 years up here, so I don't think I'll change my mind anytime soon.

So not same like many soi dogs in city.  In city a person feed dogs they come and stay and fight for top dog! Maybe  two soi away same again ! And again.Too much.

2 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

So not same like many soi dogs in city.  In city a person feed dogs they come and stay and fight for top dog! Maybe  two soi away same again ! And again.Too much.

I understand that, but what I dislike is that many think the solution for that is to kill them.

14 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Proton, Yes, I am claiming that plants are living beings the same as animals. When we eat, we are usually eating dead life forms that we have killed for that purpose. The only exception to that are fruits, the parts of the plant with seeds that, when taken and eaten, do not harm the plant.

What I find distasteful is anyone who kills lifeforms for convenience or sport. That includes, of course, killing soi dogs, but also any animals that we might encounter, like snakes or mice. Other than food, the only reason I'd accept for killing animals is self-defense, like you killing the soi dog who attacked your wife. But even then, not killing it out of spite or revenge, but defense.

And, our propensity for killing things for our convenience is not limited to animals. We also kill lots of plants to "clear" the land or use the plant, like trees, to build things for our convenience.

And yes, living in an urban area like Bangkok is living the realm of highly hubristic humans who have already accepted the belief that their comfort and convenience is more important than any other lifeform.

 

Plants are not sentient beings with a central nervous system like mammals, you are deluded in claiming they are the same. Those that claim there is a difference between livestock and pets are also deluded, animals are animals and livestock and pets have both been bred for human convenience, they have the same 'rights'. So to eat some while whining about others like soi dogs is, I believe the height of stupidity.

I've come to the conclusion that Bill Smart isn't.

We have 6 dogs at home and were feeding a Momma dog and her pups for awhile along with some other people in our soi.

 

It's called humanity.

 

Obviously we love dogs and this one was sweet as sugar.

 

They can't help the situation they're in. You don't want them to starve to death.

36 minutes ago, proton said:

You have no problem with the rights of cows, pigs, sheep chickens and fish having no rights to be here then? just nasty unwanted problem mutts roaming the sois. It might be part of who you are to eat some animals while crying about the 'rights' of other animals, but it's illogical and hypocritical.

The above is food to many, do you draw the line with insects or do you just squash them?

Soi dogs are exactly that. They are Soi dogs.

No one takes responsibility despite feeding them.

They are vermin and a accident waiting to happen.

1 hour ago, proton said:

Plants are not sentient beings with a central nervous system like mammals, you are deluded in claiming they are the same. Those that claim there is a difference between livestock and pets are also deluded, animals are animals and livestock and pets have both been bred for human convenience, they have the same 'rights'. So to eat some while whining about others like soi dogs is, I believe the height of stupidity.

Plants are sentient beings. You, like most, do not know the definition of "sentient." They do not have a central nervous system, but neither do a lot of animals, like sponges or jellyfish. 

The only difference between "livestock" and "pets" is a particular human's intentions on how they will exploit them. I'm sure you know many people consider dogs and pets, yet some people eat them. And many people consider pigs as livestock, yet some people keep them as pets.

I don't believe your casual acceptance, even promotion, of killing soi dogs is "stupid." I believe it is hubristic. And, as I detail in my book, that is one of the two qualities of humans that will eventually lead to our extinction. The other quality is our intellect. Unfortunately, before that happens, we'll take a lot of other living beings on this planet with us.

1 hour ago, Golden Triangle said:

I've come to the conclusion that Bill Smart isn't.

Gee, I haven't been teased about my last name since I was in grade school! ????

4 hours ago, proton said:

The usual hypocrisy, people claiming animals have a right to be here while eating them ???? -some animals have more rights than others it seems.

Yes...they are outraged if someone kills a dog, or a cat is run over with a car....yet they happily feed their dogs and cats dead animals in the pet food.  Double standards....

 

 

4 hours ago, billsmart said:

I live up in the mountains of Phetchabun on about 12 rai of land surrounded by jungle. I have 14 dogs, all which were abandoned on the mountain road which runs past our house, presumably by people from Phetchabun and the small villages at the bottom of the mountain. My dogs <deleted> where they want (outside), bark during the day (mostly at intruders) and howl occasionally at night. They do rip open bin bags if I don't secure them, and the do scare intruders, which is an asset living up here, but have never attacked them, like bite them. There's not much traffic up here, but for the most part, they stay off the road, but occasionally get hit by a car, and unfortunately, sometimes that is done intentionally.

 

We spade the females but leave the testes on the males because I think they need the androgen up here to survive.

I've lived like this for about 15 years up here, so I don't think I'll change my mind anytime soon.

I gave up reading when I got to the 14 dogs .......   I spluttered my beer all over the keyboard

 

 

you really have lost it .....      Lol

2 minutes ago, steven100 said:

I gave up reading when I got to the 14 dogs .......   I spluttered my beer all over the keyboard

 

 

you really have lost it .....      Lol

No, steven100, I have FOUND it. I hope someday you will too.

Just now, billsmart said:

No, steven100, I have FOUND it. I hope someday you will too.

well at least you still have a sense of humor .....  and if your 14 dogs aren't a danger in anyone going past then that's ok ....  and I mean kids going fishing on bikes or whatever .... 

The 14 are your responsibility so hope for gods sake no one ever gets attacked near your place. 

1 hour ago, brucegoniners said:

We have 6 dogs at home and were feeding a Momma dog and her pups for awhile along with some other people in our soi.

 

It's called humanity.

 

Obviously we love dogs and this one was sweet as sugar.

 

They can't help the situation they're in. You don't want them to starve to death.

And.....what happened to the puppies and dogs?

 

Did you or anyone else have the compassion to given them a home, to sterilise them so this problem wound not happen the next time the bitch gets pregnant?  Did you or the other compassionate people take them to the vets to get their vaccinations to prevent them getting diseases and suffering?

 

Did anyone deworm them, treat them for worms and give them rabies vaccinations?

 

That did not happen with the compassionate animal loving people in my street.

 

They fed up the pregnant dog.  It has 6 puppies. .

 

They fed the puppies but left them all on the street.  Many got mange, one died slowly of some disease, one was hit by a car and had to survive with a broken leg and pelvis.  No one was smart enough to take financial responsibility for them.

 

The ones that survived grew up.  3 were bitches and then they had puppies.  The mother dog also had more puppies.  

 

People fed them....same as above....

 

Now, 5 years later, instead of one female dog there are over 30 diseased, sickly dogs in the street.  

 

They fight with each other, they bite people, knocked someone off their scooter.  They bark and howl through the night and kill peoples chickens and cats.  They rip oven garbage bags and spread trash all over the street. 

 

This is the direct result of the kind of 'compassionate' people you talk about who feed street dogs. 

 

They make the problems for the poor dogs WORSE for their own selfish reason of feeling smug and 'kind' by feeding them.

8 hours ago, webfact said:

feeding stray dogs and cats out of her own money for ten years. 

My suggestion would be to save some of that money and take a visit to one of the 11 Cat Islands in Japan where the strays roam free unbothered and are loved by locals with tourists coming to visit them. She would love it I'm sure

The 11 Cat Islands of Japan