Paperwork is clogging up government departments in Thailand

[ChrisY1]

There can be no kickbacks for digital Immigration services.....so keep the paper coming.

The first big hit of going digital, would be the "under the table" visas.....of which there must be thousands!

[phetphet]

A very inefficient "Big Brother." Each dressed in a pseudo military uniform to make them feel important.

[Twod0gs]

It's difficult to attach a 1000baht note to a digital file ????

[Chongalulu]

As a U.K. expat here I have been able to 1) Renew a lease on my rented house there 2) Renew my driving licence (they lift a photograph from my passport simply by giving them the number 3) Conduct all banking  4) Apply for new credit cards 5) Submit my tax return 6) Administer my various pensions 7) Handle my investments including selling/buying shares .

All this on line (including electronic signatures) without producing a single sheet of paper .

Thailand's productivity figures in this area ,apart from wasted paper /storage must be appalling by comparison. It’s only the comparative low wages that ameliorates this.

[mikebell]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Also, it would do away with a lot of the interaction between the customer, visa agents, and the staff at these offices too

It's the brown paper notes clogging up the system just as the brown envelopes sustain the police force.

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, bluemoon58 said:

It's not "starting" to get out of hand, it's always been out of hand...!!! Thailand professes to be a 1st world country but as many long termers here know, it isn't!

Unfortunately, a few fancy hotels and imported European luxury sedans crawling around Bangkok's streets does not make a first world country.

 

These things are the lipstick on the pig. A quick look at the illegal Junta in charge (having stolen power down the barrel of a gun), the corrupt police force, the corrupt judiciary and the massive, increasingly wide wealth gap tells you everything you need to know about Thailand's development. And those are just the things we are allowed to mention... 

 

Having spent 16 years here implementing new systems, it's very clear why we still have antiquated reams of paperwork. Thais are loathe to change any system they understand, no matter how inefficient it is. They cling to old systems using various stalling techniques and invent fake issues with the replacement. They hate change, and they certainly aren't going to inconvenience themselves learning a new system to make a farang's visa renewal easier.

 

 

[NorthernRyland]

"If it's not on paper and duplicated multiple times it doesn't count"

 

- some Thai bureaucrat.

[Peterphuket]

1 hour ago, actonion said:

Walk to the rear  inside wall of Pattaya Immigration Office , there  is paperwork stacked  floor to ceiling  all along that wall  ( 3 months ago)

Supposed they need a specific document from that stack, what do you think, they can find?

It is unbelievable what a huge waste of paper.

[kennw]

1 hour ago, Classic Ray said:

Someone I know well works for a Thai Govt department doing admin. Her job could be done completely from home but there is no remote connection available to their records system, plus all her work arrives on paper, not electronically.

 

The quality of the IT professionals employed by the Thai Govt can be seen in the on again/off again online 90 day reporting, the inability to submit a tax return online in English (only in Thai) and the paper only visa/extension system.

 

There is little incentive to computerize as people would lose their jobs for life with medical and pension benefits. This goes through Govt, including land offices, banks and utilities which all rely on people processing paper. The only parts that have been developed efficiently online are payments to get the money in quickly.

 

There will be no changes whilst the education system discourages questioning of officialdom, and that will not happen soon.

Jobs for the "boys" provided they are relatives, or have deep pockets.

[BadSpottedDog]

I've discovered (through a friend), that Thai govt offices DO recycle! ???? She went into immigration to renew visa. They printed a form for her to fill out, and low and behold, on the other side, was a copy of someone else's passport!! 
They were using the backside of previous copies people had provided, containing their personal info! 
What could possibly go wrong?
Aside from that, yes. The amount of paperwork is ridiculous. Every. Single. Time. Can they get everything online? Let's refer back to Thai govt websites and the functionality or lack thereof. What do you think?

[mania]

What is also not so funny about their love of multi copies & forms for everything is their lack of

protecting your data once they have it in triplicate

 

Have you ever been given a note by Immigration ?

I have & it seems they take these forms & eventually? use the blank backsides for scrap paper to hand out notes on.

These notes are usually quarter sized meaning a full sheet is cut into 4 notes

 

Anyway the worst part is I flip the note over & there is a pic of a Japanese National's passport for all to see with PP number & all

Made me wonder how much of my banking & personal info is handed out to strangers on the back of notes

[RocketDog]

4 hours ago, stoner said:

12 years and the OP still doesn't get it. 

Get what exactly? I think the OP stated the case very clearly as well as the obvious solution.

He 'gets it' more than many others do apparently.

[DUNROAMIN]

More paper the better, means more staff, thats how Thailand runs, 10 people to do work of 2 people. 

[RocketDog]

2 hours ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

Thais in general think we are all criminals,so better check documents everytime

I think you grossly overestimate the importance of farang to "Thais in general".

 

Thais in general are consumed with the daily fight for the basic necessities of life such as food, water, and shelter. How often do you consider their plight?

 

If they consider us at all, they care little for the burdens farang think so vitally important such as paper chases.

Perspective is important.

[shackleton]

Yes agree with the amount of paperwork involved in Immigration and other places costing many trees 

But what can one do just grin and bear it ???? 

It's the way things are here in Thailand 

 

[proton]

2 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Soon we will run out of trees. One would think that in these days of computers there would be a lot less paper being used. Just look at purchasing something, most people are using their credit cards and not cash. Save the trees!

Trees for paper are crops, re newable source of materials, they are not chopping down rainforests for it!

[Andycoops]

Thailand 2.0, 4.0 what a joke and they even have a ministry of digital economy, what are those Muppets doing, nothing as they are probably drowning in the same paperwork...

The world hub of inefficiency.

[KCM3]

I agree with the OP.  As a concrete example of what can be done I would point out that the Thai Embassy in Singapore has done everything electronically for years and even holds the information.  I was happy to find that when I had renew an annual visa some years back all of my information was pre-filled in on the website and all I had to do was amend any fields as/if needed.   It was easy and efficient.  Now as for me being comfortable my info on file electronically won’t leak out via a hack…. That’s another question.  But the point is that at least at some level, this is already being done by the government.  Now they just need to roll it out to other offices.  I tell them every time I renew my visa in-country and the local clerks nod in agreement with me but it ends there I guess.

[SbuxPlease]

My Thai colleagues get it too - they see the waste and inefficiency, but also think it's "normal" and "no one could ever change it", and "not my problem". When you can get a day off work just to visit the DLT, it's suddenly not so bad (if you hate your job and work for "the man").

 

So, like us farangs, they complain a bit but accept it as an unchangeable system.

 

The only thing that could really change this is enough of the population traveling around the world and seeing various other ways of doing things and deciding that it matters.

 

But, you have to understand that the ones who can travel like and "get it" will move to live in another country anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jesimps]

Normally things get easier as time goes on an technology comes in. Not here it seems. I recently did my third 5 year driving licence renewal and it was a right pain in the bum. 

 

The previous two, although a complete waste of time, both took about two hours in the morning and I was on my way. This one, I had to find my way to a new office to watch a movie and do a bunch of paperwork. Then over to the old office, where I did some more paperwork only to be told to make an appointment to return to do the colour and reaction tests. 

 

I was lucky to get an appointment for the next afternoon when after the usual useless tests and lots more paperwork, photos etc, a couple of hours later I was finished. There was only one cashier, so there was a huge queue of applicants and agents (another pain in the bum) waiting to pay the fee.

 

Over for another six years thankfully. At 77 yoa, I may not be around for the next one.

[Bangkok Barry]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

So what is stopping the government from implementing digitization on a grand scale?

I suppose the staff at these departments would be concerned that half their colleagues would overnight lose their jobs as digitalization would reduce their workload dramatically.

They might, in a decade or three. But I hope they would outsource the procedure of writing and implementing the software to non-Thais, based on the previous record of government digital services.

I have no doubt, also, that if foreigners came in and did a time and motion study, it would recommend that about 80% of the staff used should be made redundant.

[Bangkok Barry]

47 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

I think you grossly overestimate the importance of farang to "Thais in general".

 

Thais in general are consumed with the daily fight for the basic necessities of life such as food, water, and shelter. How often do you consider their plight?

 

If they consider us at all, they care little for the burdens farang think so vitally important such as paper chases.

Perspective is important.

OH NO! Another 'all Thais are poor' post. Please wake up. There is a fast growing middle class with plenty of money to spend. If you are in Bangkok, make a tour of the bars and restaurants and see how the Thais are fighting for the 'basic necessities'.

[finnomick1]

3 hours ago, Jimbo in Thailand said:

I just wonder where the Thai government is hiding this Mount Everest sized pile of old paper copies that we 'fuh-langs' have all been contributing to for years and years and years... and years?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Do you do a 90 day report ? Have you ever looked at the piece of paper stapled in your passport ? Have a look. My last 90 day report was printed on the reverse of a form submitted to immigration by a MR LIAM EDWARD KERR

[hasher69]

5 hours ago, gp2002 said:

"So what is stopping the government from implementing digitization on a grand scale?"

 

Common sense, intelligence... I'll stop there ????????

It creates jobs!

 

[stoner]

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

Get what exactly? I think the OP stated the case very clearly as well as the obvious solution.

He 'gets it' more than many others do apparently.

apparently you don't either. 

 

this process is wanted by those in charge. it is done on purpose to ensure the same systems continue so the same life can continue. 

 

you think for one moment they care a single thought about anything anyone has to say about it ? 

 

why do you think getting in positions such as these are such coveted things in this country ? 

 

can you please sign your comment in blue ink next time.

[Road Warrior]

Thailand loves paperwork .they never think about the trees felled !!!

[finnomick1]

48 minutes ago, proton said:

Trees for paper are crops, re newable source of materials, they are not chopping down rainforests for it!

Correct. Thousands of rai are used for growing eucalyptus trees in  Thailand  which is used for paper.  AA is one if not the largest buyer of eucalyptus trees and subsequently producers of paper

[Molly Malone]

OH what a SHOCK, amazing revelation.

Hundreds of photo copies for drivers license, registrations, proof of residency blah blah blah,

Are you kidding us? I reckon you'd need to chop down a forrest just to get married!!!

It's always amazed me, where does all that insanely unimportant paper get stored???

 

Oh do wake up Gov brain surgeons!

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, bluemoon58 said:

It's not "starting" to get out of hand, it's always been out of hand...!!! Thailand professes to be a 1st world country but as many long termers here know, it isn't!

was trying to figure how is their ratings... there's 1st world, 2nd world and 3rd world, can't see them fitting in any of these, what's the next classification ..... 555

[Stefanix]

Nobody can control all the paperwork and the reasons for approval or rejection. Processing it electronically would bring a certain level of transparency. And transparency is what they don’t like.