Trump did nothing to stop his supporters as they attacked Congress, threatened Pence, witnesses tell Jan. 6 committee

[candide]

2 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

It is false equivalence alright But it is you who is making a mountain out of a molehill.  An estimated 1,200 - 2,500 people Of that group Christopher Michael Alberts, Lonnie Leroy Coffman, Mark Sami Ibrahim, Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr. and Guy Wesley Reffitt — are charged with possessing firearms. But none are charged with using them .

 

And of course with your liberal bias having 5 people carrying but not using a fiream was a serious threat to overturn the government of the USA with its 330 million people.  Yes those 5 people could certainly have overwhelmed the 3,500 police officers who are on the Washington DC police force.  

Oh PS Washington DC is a city, and the Mayor of Washington is she culpable too?  I don't recall any condemnation of the mayor for failure to immeciately dispatch the local police force.  By contrast the Federal Government has prohibitions against using military to enforce civil actions. 

I am sure if Trump had used military force, he would have been charged with violating that law as well. 

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes which limits the powers of the federal government in the use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States.

 

Not legal? The national guard has been deployed at the Capitol during nearly 5 month!

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/05/23/national-guard-mission-to-provide-security-ending-at-capitol/

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

  An estimated 1,200 - 2,500 people Of that group Christopher Michael Alberts, Lonnie Leroy Coffman, Mark Sami Ibrahim, Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr. and Guy Wesley Reffitt — are charged with possessing firearms. But none are charged with using them .

 

And of course with your liberal bias having 5 people carrying but not using a fiream was a serious threat to overturn the government of the USA with its 330 million people.  Yes those 5 people could certainly have overwhelmed the 3,500 police officers who are on the Washington DC police force.  

Oh PS Washington DC is a city, and the Mayor of Washington is she culpable too?  I don't recall any condemnation of the mayor for failure to immeciately dispatch the local police force.  By contrast the Federal Government has prohibitions against using military to enforce civil actions. 

I am sure if Trump had used military force, he would have been charged with violating that law as well. 

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes which limits the powers of the federal government in the use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States.
 

And now you desperately deny the obvious.

 

A mob of thousands heard a speech from Trump in which he told them to march on the Capitol and told them they had to fight like hell.  The mob marched on the Capitol chanting "fight for Trump" and "hang Mike Pence".  Trump watched on television and did nothing. 

 

A single tweet from Trump would have called off his mob, but he did nothing.

 

After Mike Pence called out the National Guard Trump tried to take credit for the call, but the truth is Trump did nothing.

 

Trump did not need to call out the military, but if he had it would have at least shown he was on the side of defending Constitutional Democracy and law in the US, but he did nothing.

 

The mob didn't need guns, they forced their way into the Capitol and forced Congress and the Vice President into hiding by overwhelming numbers, and Trump did nothing.

 

Trump wanted to undermine democracy in America for his own benefit, and clearly you support him in this.

 

You and all other Trump supporters who try to downplay the seriousness of January 6 are putting Trump before the country and the Constitution.  You are not patriots.

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

The fact is the Mayor of Washington DC had at her disposal 3,500 police officers who could be used to quell any domestic violence. 

Washington DC is known for its multitude of law enforcement agencies and each has its own jurisdiction. The Metropolitan Police has jurisdiction on the city streets. You really need to stop your embarrassing diversion. 

[pomchop]

How very easy it would be for all the trump defenders to just admit that you got conned by one of the biggest conmen in history. You don't even have to tell anyone you were duped.  Just stop with the ridiculous attempts to deflect and defend the indefensible.

 

 Yet as the evidence continues to pile up, as more and more of trumps inner circle confirm some of the worst criminal behavior and , dereliction of duty EVER, the kool aide crew sits at their keyboards with their hands over their eyes and their fingers in their ears chanting See no Evil Hear no Evil.

 

North Korea would welcome them with open arms to worship dear leader.

 

 

[Jingthing]

Guilty as sin.

Professor Tribe was Merrick Garland's teacher.

 

Trump 'Demonstrably Guilty' of Crime on Jan. 6: Laurence Tribe (newsweek.com)

 

Laurence Tribe, professor emeritus of constitutional law at Harvard University, said Saturday that he believes Donald Trump is "demonstrably guilty" of committing a crime on January 6, 2021, listing several possible charges the former president could face from the Justice Department.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Jingthing

[bendejo]

23 hours ago, pomchop said:

How very easy it would be for all the trump defenders to just admit that you got conned by one of the biggest conmen in history. You don't even have to tell anyone you were duped. 

The real impressive thing (IMO) was how he got them at the very first announcement, the Day of the Descending Escalator.  Something in those first words grabbed 30% of the country and they are still with him.  Before that he was tv's "you're fired" buffoon.

 

 

[bendejo]

On 7/29/2022 at 1:30 PM, Jingthing said:

I won't say the Emperor Has No Clothes as some might be eating.

I want to see him in his corset.  I might even spring for pay-per-view for that one.

 

 

[heybruce]

29 minutes ago, bendejo said:

The real impressive thing (IMO) was how he got them at the very first announcement, the Day of the Descending Escalator.  Something in those first words grabbed 30% of the country and they are still with him.  Before that he was tv's "you're fired" buffoon.

I think the fans of that kind of reality tv, especially the ones who think it's real, aren't the most mentally sophisticated.

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, bendejo said:

I want to see him in his corset.  I might even spring for pay-per-view for that one.

 

 

Only Fans 45?

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[Credo]

It's pretty clear that Trump's inaction was deliberate.  He certainly knew how to call up the National Guard and knew the loopholes in the laws regarding using the National Guard.  This is from the 2020 use of the National Guard by Barr and Trump against the BLM protesters:

 

Trump and Barr used a loophole to deploy National Guard to US cities

 

President Donald Trump recently took the drastic step of sending thousands of National Guard troops to Washington, D.C. They were not sent to repel a foreign attack on the nation's capital but to mobilize against American citizens peacefully protesting the senseless killing of George Floyd. The Trump administration then deployed scores of unidentified federal law enforcement officers, many of them from the Department of Homeland Security, to Portland, Oregon, resulting in increased mayhem and injuries to nonviolent protesters.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-barr-used-loophole-deploy-national-guard-u-s-cities-ncna1236034

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Credo

[bendejo]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Only Fans 45?

Looks like I'll have to settle for this.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/09/19/a-trumpian-candidate-on-trumps-corset

 

 

[bendejo]

6 hours ago, Credo said:

It's pretty clear that Trump's inaction was deliberate.  He certainly knew how to call up the National Guard and knew the loopholes in the laws regarding using the National Guard. 

I recall there was some chatter that Flynn's brother, also a military honcho, was somehow in charge of the National Guard and did something to delay the Guard's response that day.  I've been anticipating the 1/6 committee bringing it up. 

Here's a glimpse into DT's way of thinking: in his one briefing Obama gave him before leaving office, Obama advised him to keep away from Flynn -- he's bad news and it is going to catch up with him.  Under his orange bird's nest this is interpreted as "he wants me to dump Flynn, why would he want that?" so he took Obama's caution as a possible sabotage.

 

 

[LarrySR]

Just lock him up and do the 'due process' stuff later.

 

[heybruce]

Most of the discussion of this topic is taking place here:  https://aseannow.com/topic/1266826-trump-booed-at-arizona-rally-over-his-new-endorsement/page/13/#comment-17515904

 

If moderators succeed in redirecting it here, be ready for the latest diversion from the Trump defenders:  "But Trump said a few nice words during his incendiary speech promoting the stolen election lie, and he tweeted a carefully worded statement complementing his followers but asking them to leave the Capitol after it was clear the attempt to stop certification of the election had failed."

 

It's understandable that they would avoid addressing the actual topic here, there is no way to make Trump look good.

[Longwood50]

On 7/29/2022 at 2:44 PM, Bkk Brian said:

"The Act does not prevent the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor."

It is not irrelevent.  Note it says "invited" by that states governor. Washington DC has no governor. It has a mayor.  

Also it specifically states that the use of federal forces is limited.  The disturbance would have to be declared an insurrection.  That is why the left is hanging on the word insurrection.  As if somehow 1,200 people with only 5 carrying guns represented a threat of insurrection to the USA. 

The fact is, the Mayor of Washington had 3,500 police used to quell civil disturbances and she chose not to engage them.  The Capital under the direction of Pelosi has 2,500 Capital Hill Police.  But somehow only "Trump" could call on federal troops to quell this outbreak that lasted all of 6 hours. 

If there was an insurrection it was in Seattle where the Mayor and Governor allowed a section of the city to be taken under force barricaded and renamed. 

This entire charade is nothing but a dog and pony show the same as the Russian Collusion and Stormy Daniels.  It is intended to keep portraying in the media Trump in a bad light even if the charges proved to be unfounded or untrue, the damage is done. 

Also it is like the magician who tells you to watch that he has nothing up his sleeve getting your attention focused exactly where he wants you while his other actions go unnoticed  

They don't want you focused on the inflation, high gas prices, and the crime rampant in the street.  They want the news media to devote full attention elsewhere. 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Longwood50 said:

It is not irrelevent.  Note it says "invited" by that states governor. Washington DC has no governor. It has a mayor.  

Also it specifically states that the use of federal forces is limited.  The disturbance would have to be declared an insurrection.  That is why the left is hanging on the word insurrection.  As if somehow 1,200 people with only 5 carrying guns represented a threat of insurrection to the USA. 

The fact is, the Mayor of Washington had 3,500 police used to quell civil disturbances and she chose not to engage them.  The Capital under the direction of Pelosi has 2,500 Capital Hill Police.  But somehow only "Trump" could call on federal troops to quell this outbreak that lasted all of 6 hours. 

If there was an insurrection it was in Seattle where the Mayor and Governor allowed a section of the city to be taken under force barricaded and renamed. 

This entire charade is nothing but a dog and pony show the same as the Russian Collusion and Stormy Daniels.  It is intended to keep portraying in the media Trump in a bad light even if the charges proved to be unfounded or untrue, the damage is done. 

Also it is like the magician who tells you to watch that he has nothing up his sleeve getting your attention focused exactly where he wants you while his other actions go unnoticed  

They don't want you focused on the inflation, high gas prices, and the crime rampant in the street.  They want the news media to devote full attention elsewhere. 

 

ditto as I said irrelevant

 

"The Act does not prevent the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor."

[Longwood50]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

ditto as I said irrelevant

And which Governor "invited" the national guard.  Oh I guess you give a pass however to Democrat Mayor Bowser and her 3,500 police.  It was only Trump who could be called upon to save the Republic. 

BS.  If Trump had called in the National Guard these hearings would be about his over reach of power using federal troops to quell a civil disturbance. 

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Longwood50 said:

And which Governor "invited" the national guard.  Oh I guess you give a pass however to Democrat Mayor Bowser and her 3,500 police.  It was only Trump who could be called upon to save the Republic. 

BS.  If Trump had called in the National Guard these hearings would be about his over reach of power using federal troops to quell a civil disturbance. 

 

Please. Trump watched and did nothing despite the entreaties of the people around him and the judgement of the secret service that the crowd posed a mortal danger.

 

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

And which Governor "invited" the national guard.  Oh I guess you give a pass however to Democrat Mayor Bowser and her 3,500 police.  It was only Trump who could be called upon to save the Republic. 

BS.  If Trump had called in the National Guard these hearings would be about his over reach of power using federal troops to quell a civil disturbance. 

 

Call B.S. all you want the legislation is clear

[heybruce]

14 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

And which Governor "invited" the national guard.  Oh I guess you give a pass however to Democrat Mayor Bowser and her 3,500 police.  It was only Trump who could be called upon to save the Republic. 

BS.  If Trump had called in the National Guard these hearings would be about his over reach of power using federal troops to quell a civil disturbance. 

 

I'm sure you could divert indefinitely with posts about how someone else could have done something, but that is irrelevant.  Trump had the authority to call in the National Guard and did not, but he did try to take credit for Mike Pence calling them in.

 

Read the title of the topic.  Trump did nothing to stop the assault on the Capitol.  He could have called it off with a tweet telling supporters to leave the Capitol, but he did that only after it was clear that they would not prevent the election certification. 

 

Trump broke his oath of office.  He is unfit for any public office.  Trump is no patriot, and neither are those who support and defend him.

Edited August 4, 2022 by heybruce

[ozimoron]

Bill Barr, ever the coward is trying to slither out from under a snake's belly. Pity he didn't have a conscience when the was AG.

 

CBS News correspondent Catherine Herridge interviewed Barr after the DOJ subpoenaed former White House counsel Pat Cipollone and Patrick Philbin, his deputy.

 

"And I didn't think they were paying that much attention to the higher-ups and were sort-of leaving it to the congressional committee," Barr explained. "But this suggests to me that they're taking a hard look at the group at the top, including the president and the people immediately around him who were involved in this."

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-bill-barr-2657816677/

[ozimoron]

On Friday, The Daily Beast reported that former President Donald Trump is now asking supporters on his email list to chip in money to help him fight his lawsuit against CNN.

This comes in spite of the fact that the lawsuit, announced last week, has not yet actually materialized and Trump has not taken any formal steps to initiate legal action against the cable network.

"Instead of court documents being filed, Trump appears to be more preoccupied with begging followers to send in money to 'support' the so far non-existent legal action," reported Zachary Petrizzo.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-fundraising-2657816685/

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Bill Barr, ever the coward is trying to slither out from under a snake's belly. Pity he didn't have a conscience when the was AG.

 

CBS News correspondent Catherine Herridge interviewed Barr after the DOJ subpoenaed former White House counsel Pat Cipollone and Patrick Philbin, his deputy.

 

"And I didn't think they were paying that much attention to the higher-ups and were sort-of leaving it to the congressional committee," Barr explained. "But this suggests to me that they're taking a hard look at the group at the top, including the president and the people immediately around him who were involved in this."

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-bill-barr-2657816677/

Barr is the guy that a judge severely rebuked for misrepresenting Mueller's report.

[candide]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

On Friday, The Daily Beast reported that former President Donald Trump is now asking supporters on his email list to chip in money to help him fight his lawsuit against CNN.

This comes in spite of the fact that the lawsuit, announced last week, has not yet actually materialized and Trump has not taken any formal steps to initiate legal action against the cable network.

"Instead of court documents being filed, Trump appears to be more preoccupied with begging followers to send in money to 'support' the so far non-existent legal action," reported Zachary Petrizzo.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-fundraising-2657816685/

I must admit he's good at suckering his fans to fungi him.

[Longwood50]

On 8/5/2022 at 3:07 AM, heybruce said:

Trump broke his oath of office.  He is unfit for any public office.  Trump is no patriot, and neither are those who support and defend him.

Yep the "left" now judge someone guilty of crime for "something they did not do"  

Lets add to the list. 

Trump did not put up a billboard telling protestors not to attack the capital - guilty.

Trump did not have a motorcade dragging, do not protest signs - guilty

Trump did not put up a wall around the capital building to prevent protestors from entering - guilty

Trump did not dig a moat around the capital building to bar entry to protestors. - guilty

Oh and it has also been reported that one of the staffers "unamed" of course said they personally saw Trump tear out the  Do Not Remove label from one of the Whitehouse matttresses. 

The entire event lasted 6 hours and he is lambasted.  The Washington Police are there to quell civil disturbances and are domiciled in Washington DC.  

The National Guard is a group of part time group not housed on some military base in Washington DC.  Even assuming Trump called them out the minute the disturbance started by the time they were contacted and assembled the 6 hour "INSURRECTION" would have been over.  

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

The National Guard is a group of part time group not housed on some military base in Washington DC.  Even assuming Trump called them out the minute the disturbance started by the time they were contacted and assembled the 6 hour "INSURRECTION" would have been over.  

And what would have happened if the National Guard would have sided with the protestors ?

   Could have began a civil war . 

Also, the National Guard  were called into action during the protests , but it was the Pentagon that didn't authorise their deployment .

 

 

"William Walker, then the District of Columbia’s National Guard commander, told senators during a hearing in March that Pentagon officials took more than three hours to approve a request by the U.S. Capitol Police for National Guard troops to back up police under attack by rioters at the Capitol on Jan. 6.

'

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/pentagon-refines-dc-national-guard-approval-authority-after-capitol-riot-2021-12-30/

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Yep the "left" now judge someone guilty of crime for "something they did not do"  

Lets add to the list. 

Trump did not put up a billboard telling protestors not to attack the capital - guilty.

Trump did not have a motorcade dragging, do not protest signs - guilty

Trump did not put up a wall around the capital building to prevent protestors from entering - guilty

Trump did not dig a moat around the capital building to bar entry to protestors. - guilty

Oh and it has also been reported that one of the staffers "unamed" of course said they personally saw Trump tear out the  Do Not Remove label from one of the Whitehouse matttresses. 

The entire event lasted 6 hours and he is lambasted.  The Washington Police are there to quell civil disturbances and are domiciled in Washington DC.  

The National Guard is a group of part time group not housed on some military base in Washington DC.  Even assuming Trump called them out the minute the disturbance started by the time they were contacted and assembled the 6 hour "INSURRECTION" would have been over.  

What nonsense. It's not a matter of Trump neglecting to do someting. He actively resisted calling in the Guard. And the Guard was  in an armory 2 miles away from the Capitol

[candide]

17 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

And what would have happened if the National Guard would have sided with the protestors ?

   Could have began a civil war . 

Also, the National Guard  were called into action during the protests , but it was the Pentagon that didn't authorise their deployment .

 

 

"William Walker, then the District of Columbia’s National Guard commander, told senators during a hearing in March that Pentagon officials took more than three hours to approve a request by the U.S. Capitol Police for National Guard troops to back up police under attack by rioters at the Capitol on Jan. 6.

'

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/pentagon-refines-dc-national-guard-approval-authority-after-capitol-riot-2021-12-30/

Ahem! Remind me who was the Commander in Chief?

Edited August 6, 2022 by candide

[Longwood50]

34 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

And what would have happened if the National Guard would have sided with the protestors ?

You are correct.  However the point still is that this was a "civil unrest" not any different than those that happened in Minneapolis, Seattle and a host of other cities.  Mayor Bowser a Democrat has 3,500 armed policeman 'TRAINED" to deal with law enforcement.  She chose not to dispatch them and somehow escapes criticism.  

The National Guard is a part time military force. Trained in certain weapons but not in law enforcement.  One way or another in order for Trump to "legally" call for federal troops against civilians was for the action to be deemed an insurrection.  Who would delcare it to be an insurrection, and how long after that would it take to have the national guard personnel mobilized.  The entire protest was over in 6 hours.

Having a thousand people, enter the capital building is hardly an insurrection.  It is a civil "unrest"  Now if I was CNN and this was a protest following the George Floyd incident, I would term them "completely peaceful protests"