Minor collision: Who's in the wrong?

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

I'm not quoting  the highway code. I'm quoting how drivers actually  use the headlight flash and  its commonly used to mean ' You go ahead'

I am aware it not how the Highway  code  defines its use. Not everyone  abides by the  Highway  code.  I have been  driving for about 50 years both large commercial vehicles and domestic  vehicles in numerous  countries. Can you say the same? I certainly  don't need you  quoting the Highway code at me.

If you had been more clear with your comment we’d have avoided the debate...

 

Here... 

Quote

 

While in the UK highway Code flashing lights means a warning.... 

Only in the UK does it generally mean 'I'm yielding  to you'

In most countries its a warning 'I'm coming through'

 

 

[The Hammer2021]

Anybody turning into oncoming  traffic  is automatically responsible for checking the road is clear. Any accident caused by such a manoeuvre is the fault  of that driver.

[swm59nj]

Driving here is a crapshoot.  It seems the individual drivers just make up their own rules.  One would have the impression there are no set traffic rules.
As an example I use grabcar quite a bit.  I live in a condo building in Asoke surrounded by office buildings on both sides of a main road.  Vehicles enter and exit all these buildings constantly from the opposite sides of the road. 
99% of the grabcar drivers will turn to enter my building crossing the opposite side of the road.  The reminder say they cannot.  And tell me I have to get out across the road. 
I have asked the English speaking Thai drivers about this.  And they all give completely  different versions of the traffic law. 
So it’s not the official law.  It’s what the drivers want to do at that time. And many just don’t know what they are doing or don’t care

[thailand49]

Based on your report,  you can look it up if one ever renewed 5 years you are required to watch a video it is on that video. 

Although under and over taking is common what isn't common is it done safely this particular act not even the police know about.  I've witness a death a few years back everyone was saying lady fault in the car. I speak enough Thai to make my point the one area or my pet pee are driving violations. I stuck around too watch out of curiosity finally approach the police that I had witness the whole thing while vehicle A Stop to let B come out of the road to make her right she did slowly the motorcycle overtook me 100 km/h 300 meter back I could see what was developing but the bike regardless of all the vehicle slowing and stopping had no clue he hit the front end of the car flew and head on into a electrical pole I still remember the cracking of his neck and spine. 

To the point there is no under or overtaking taking 200 meters from an intersection! What you indicate the SUV stopped to allow you to go through although it did never assume.

The reaction is typical from Thais I take my granddaughter to school each morning it is bumper to bumper  when I stop and let other through I feel bad.  Thais never been taught when someone stops slows down it is for s reason. 

[richard_smith237]

14 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Anybody turning into oncoming  traffic  is automatically responsible for checking the road is clear. Any accident caused by such a manoeuvre is the fault  of that driver.

Thats the way I initially saw it... But the road was clear, the SUV had stopped and gave way.

The female Motorcyclist illegally ‘undertook’ (passed on the left side of the SUV) and crashed into the Op turning across the road. 

 

 

IF this were a two lane road (in each direct) and the SUV stopped in the right hand lane and the female motorcyclist in the left lane continued and hit the Op turning across the road then I could see how this would be the Ops fault. 

 

 

-------------

 

 

I have nearly had this happen to me before. An incident actually did happen. 

 

I was turning right onto Sukhumvit 71  out of a sub-soi (in Bangkok), I’d edged out.

The car driving down Sukhumvit 71 stopped and gave way. As did a motorcycle on the inside lane.

The motorcyclist travelling behind clearly didn’t expect this and hit the brakes to hard, dropped the bike and slid straight into the back of the motorcycle which had stopped. 

 

Effectively, we ’triggered' the incident, but an idiot motorcyclist was a fault for failing to stop when the vehicles in front had. 

Now, IF the car and first motorcycle stopped, but instead of slamming on the brakes and dropping the bike the second motorcyclist had continued on and hit me, that may well have been considered my fault !!!....

 

Only dash-cam evidence could assist with getting me out of that one as I explain to the police that the motorcyclist was actually driving recklessly... and then try to convince them its the motorcyclists fault !!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thailand49]

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its not over taking... its lane splitting queuing traffic. 

 

In the middle of Bangkok, when in slow moving traffic and the middle lane moves faster than the right most lane its not considered ‘under-taking’ (overtaking)... its just moving traffic. 

it was overtaking based on his explanation he was at and intersection. In Thailand as I noted isn't allowed of course no one knows it including Police but it doesn't excuse a thing. 

Lane splitting doesn't apply at an intersection or driveway that is also the same in States particularly in California.  

In spite of what aI know in regards to over and undertaking So I never have to be in a position to have to explain I learn all their habits I never assume or take it for granted so I slowly edge out. People reference " right away " it does exist and it can be taken away too!  When a vehicle has taken the time cautious to execute their maneuver have taken 99% of your right away of the road and then person continue to insist by not slowing down when they have the time continues to try and avoid vehicle by using the 1 % of the lane left hits a pole break their neck this isn't the vehicle making the turn fault.

[BusyB]

7 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

This is actually a very common occurrence here because very few people on the roads read what is going on around them. 

No road sense at all.

[1FinickyOne]

10 hours ago, 2long said:

in the UK we flash our lights to give others way, but in Thailand they just sit there and do nothing,

actually here if someone flashes their lights it means they are not going to stop...                                                                

10 hours ago, 2long said:

She was making all kinds of noises (from her mouth)

If that were against the law, we wouldn't have politicians

 

 

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, 2long said:

 

[sawadee1947]

9 hours ago, androokery said:

And you can overtake another vehicle on any side?

Not on any side.

In you case she was passing the queing right lane on the left side. This is allowed in Thailand.

So your fault 

[Happy Howard]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Legally, you were in the wrong.

In actuality, she is stupid !!!... 

 

When riding, if a car has stopped for no apparent reason, I also stop. 

meanwhile others scream through only to discover why the car has stopped - a pedestrian crossing or someone turning across them... I’ve seen numerous accidents this way. 

 

It seems to me that in Thailand more than any other places I’ve riden or driven that there is a huge reluctance to stop or slow for anything - this results in the inevitable. 

 

But.. ultimately, even IF the vehicle has allowed you to pass in front of them, and even IF when riding defensively it would be sensible for the other motorcyclist to stop the right of way remains theirs and in the event of an accident you would be at fault. 

 

Realistically - this lady would have had no idea that she was riding carelessly... she would think that the blame is 100% with you, the thought wouldn’t cross her mind for a millisecond that she could have avoided and accident by riding more carefully - thats just how many riders in Thailand are, everyone else has to watch out for them. 

 

 

And of course the old Thai adage " it is always Farangs fault as if they come to Thailand accident not happen"

555

[Lacessit]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You are in the wrong.

Vehicles travelling in a straight line have right of way in Thailand.

 

 

I thought it was the biggest vehicle who had right of way, irrespective of what line it is following.

[2long]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Not on any side.

In you case she was passing the queing right lane on the left side. This is allowed in Thailand.

So your fault 

Thanks but not the case.

It was a regular one-lane road that was barely wide enough for one car or SUV in each lane/direction. The traffic against me was almost stopped. The lady on the scooter was overtaking on the left side of the traffic, in the gutter and where a sidewalk/pavement would normally be. It was not a case of two lanes in the same direction.

[Nemises]

You carelessly turned in front of an on-coming vehicle. Bad move in regards to your health and safety - irrespective of what the rule book says. 
 

In order to survive on a motorcycle in Thailand suggest taking more care when doing that again. 

[PolarAttack]

18 hours ago, androokery said:

And you can overtake another vehicle on any side?

He said he was travelling in a single carriageway road - so that’s easily 3 lanes wide ???? be safe, be seen and definitely don’t go if you can’t see clearly. Where I’m from, flashing the headlights also is telling you to go. I found out quickly in Thailand that to be quite the opposite ????????‍♂️

[bbbbooboo]

In Thailand , some people might think that,as a foreigner a.k.a. “farang”, the accident would never have happened if you hadn’t been here? 

[sawadee1947]

9 hours ago, 2long said:

Thanks but not the case.

It was a regular one-lane road that was barely wide enough for one car or SUV in each lane/direction. The traffic against me was almost stopped. The lady on the scooter was overtaking on the left side of the traffic, in the gutter and where a sidewalk/pavement would normally be. It was not a case of two lanes in the same direction.

Sorry, my mistake. 

However, in case to survive and knowing about Thai abilities in driving and follow any rules......I rather would wait until no car or other scooter would be seen to harm me. Sure, not easy.

[Orinoco]

Op is in the wrong. you crossed in front of someone and got it wrong.

And you can lean forward over the handle bars enough when stationary and see whats coming. 

But we know what they are like over here with riding and driving.

wrong again for no real care on your part.

3 wrongs , good job.

 

Ps, Reckon you were trying to get out the way of the suv so you didn't get splattered.

[Orinoco]

10 hours ago, 2long said:

Thanks but not the case.

It was a regular one-lane road that was barely wide enough for one car or SUV in each lane/direction. The traffic against me was almost stopped. The lady on the scooter was overtaking on the left side of the traffic, in the gutter and where a sidewalk/pavement would normally be. It was not a case of two lanes in the same direction.

You were in the wrong.

Learn, move on, get over it.

Lucky you did not hurt her and have a big hospital bill to pay.

 

 

[kennw]

23 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Legally, you were in the wrong.

In actuality, she is stupid !!!... 

 

When riding, if a car has stopped for no apparent reason, I also stop. 

meanwhile others scream through only to discover why the car has stopped - a pedestrian crossing or someone turning across them... I’ve seen numerous accidents this way. 

 

It seems to me that in Thailand more than any other places I’ve riden or driven that there is a huge reluctance to stop or slow for anything - this results in the inevitable. 

 

But.. ultimately, even IF the vehicle has allowed you to pass in front of them, and even IF when riding defensively it would be sensible for the other motorcyclist to stop the right of way remains theirs and in the event of an accident you would be at fault. 

 

Realistically - this lady would have had no idea that she was riding carelessly... she would think that the blame is 100% with you, the thought wouldn’t cross her mind for a millisecond that she could have avoided and accident by riding more carefully - thats just how many riders in Thailand are, everyone else has to watch out for them. 

 

 

Just look at the number of times pedestrians are injured while using the "zebra crossing" by motorbikes passing cars that have stopped to allow the pedestrian to cross. 

[FriendlyFarang]

23 hours ago, 2long said:

Thanks but not the case.

It was a regular one-lane road that was barely wide enough for one car or SUV in each lane/direction. The traffic against me was almost stopped. The lady on the scooter was overtaking on the left side of the traffic, in the gutter and where a sidewalk/pavement would normally be. It was not a case of two lanes in the same direction.

Both of you were wrong, she may not overtake on the left, and you have to make sure that the lane is free. So 50/50 or however it would have been handled.

[fasteddie]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:10 AM, Kwasaki said:

Disgree I think you are wrong in both sinario's they would be both accidents, how the fault and who would be to blame in Thailand if someone was hurt could be anyone's guess. 

 

In UK I believe as I said  she would be at fault not he. 

In the UK the turning vehicle has a duty to make sure the way is clear before attempting the manuvere.

[Kwasaki]

40 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

In the UK the turning vehicle has a duty to make sure the way is clear before attempting the manuvere.

What about bike undertaking when a vehicle in this case a SuV has stopped on road roadway, so the bike person can just think Oh never mine I'll just shoot up inside. 

[it is what it is]

On 8/11/2022 at 5:11 AM, richard_smith237 said:

Legally, you were in the wrong.

In actuality, she is stupid !!!... 

 

When riding, if a car has stopped for no apparent reason, I also stop. 

meanwhile others scream through only to discover why the car has stopped - a pedestrian crossing or someone turning across them... I’ve seen numerous accidents this way. 

 

It seems to me that in Thailand more than any other places I’ve riden or driven that there is a huge reluctance to stop or slow for anything - this results in the inevitable. 

 

But.. ultimately, even IF the vehicle has allowed you to pass in front of them, and even IF when riding defensively it would be sensible for the other motorcyclist to stop the right of way remains theirs and in the event of an accident you would be at fault. 

 

Realistically - this lady would have had no idea that she was riding carelessly... she would think that the blame is 100% with you, the thought wouldn’t cross her mind for a millisecond that she could have avoided and accident by riding more carefully - thats just how many riders in Thailand are, everyone else has to watch out for them. 

 

 

it seems to me that in Thailand more than any other places I’ve riden or driven that there is a huge reluctance to stop or slow for anything - this results in the inevitable. 

 

i once asked my gf why she doesn't stop for pedestrians trying to cross the road, even when we were traveling really slowly. it came from her fear of the person behind not paying attention and  being rear ended. no pun intended.

[Thunglom]

Flashing headlights in both Thailand anfd UK men the same thing - "I am here". However its use in different contexts results in different actions.

 

Remember too in Thailand that priority is from the left..

 

You also point out a major safety hazard in Thailand, that of heavily tinted windows - time and again motorists fail to communicate effectively as they simply can't see each other.

[FriendlyFarang]

14 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

What about bike undertaking when a vehicle in this case a SuV has stopped on road roadway, so the bike person can just think Oh never mine I'll just shoot up inside. 

Undertaking isn't allowed on a road with just one lane, so the motorbike would be in the wrong.

[NanLaew]

Seen plenty of experienced 2-wheelers cutting across right-to-left when sitting in a traffic jam. They tend to only cross one lane at a time before pausing or stopping, leaning way over the handlebars and craning their necks to check that another bike isn't shooting down the open gap between lines of stalled traffic. The OP was already distracted and thinking that maybe that was his polite neighbor stopping to let him cross but he should have himself stopped in front of the SUV, leaned forward and checked up the nearside of the SUV before shooting that last gap.

[richard_smith237]

20 hours ago, Thunglom said:

Remember too in Thailand that priority is from the left..

This is a misleading comment...  

 

Priority is only from the left when people are turning from a road of equal status... the vehicle to the left has priority. 

i.e. when car (a) is turning left off a main road, and car (b) is turning right off the same main road - onto a smaller road, the car to the left has priority. 

 

 

 

On regular junctions such as a T-junction, a main road passing a smaller road, traffic on the main road does not give priority to the smaller road on the left.

 

The issue with this ‘statement’ is that its a terrible and ambiguous interpretation of the Thai Road traffic act of a regulation which itself is written extremely poorly and vaguely - this itself has led to arguments on this forum that even on traffic islands there is a 'give way to the left’ rule which is not true at all. 

 

 

 

[Thunglom]

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

This is a misleading comment...  

 

Priority is only from the left when people are turning from a road of equal status... the vehicle to the left has priority. 

i.e. when car (a) is turning left off a main road, and car (b) is turning right off the same main road - onto a smaller road, the car to the left has priority. 

 

 

 

On regular junctions such as a T-junction, a main road passing a smaller road, traffic on the main road does not give priority to the smaller road on the left.

 

The issue with this ‘statement’ is that its a terrible and ambiguous interpretation of the Thai Road traffic act of a regulation which itself is written extremely poorly and vaguely - this itself has led to arguments on this forum that even on traffic islands there is a 'give way to the left’ rule which is not true at all. 

 

 

 

This is the lassie mistake foreigners make - the truth is tat priority is by default on the left - unfortunately it can be overruled by a "competent" police officer or by a designated road - foreigners for some reason think they know what te designated road is - mostly they are wrong.

 

it is the idea of "Principe roadway" that foreigners get so wrong.

 

If you've driven in France back in the 1960s and 1970s you will have witnessed the converse and how this works - and seen the havoc that poor signage created. However it still exists, mainly in towns but more importantly and the same in Thailand it is deeply ingrained in the national psyche - particularly in older drivers.

It never existed in the UK which is why UK drivers are particularly vulnerable to this.

[BostonJoe]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:08 AM, androokery said:

And you can overtake another vehicle on any side?

You crassed into her lane  it sucks how it happened but you're the one making a turn across oncoming traffic   Look at the upside of this you didn't get hurt 

[androokery]

3 hours ago, BostonJoe said:

You crassed into her lane  it sucks how it happened but you're the one making a turn across oncoming traffic   Look at the upside of this you didn't get hurt 

It wasn't me???? I wasn't there. But I highly doubt the lady was in a lane. Motorbikes seem to be exempt from regular traffic laws here.