Wine has now become a real luxury in Thailand

[greeneking]

Bangkok Post used to run a Wine column.  From what I remember it was hobbled by demands it should no longer include copy which might encourage readers to drink the stuff or know where they could buy it.

And then it ended.

[Baron Samedi]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

See my post on this page 2 as to why Thai wines are bad. I have not encountered one where I could get past half a glass.

 

It's unlikely Thai wines will improve, given xenophobia and face. I don't know if wine making is one of the occupations reserved for Thais.

 

In any case, it's unlikely a really good vintner would up sticks and move to Thailand. Many wineries are family operations going back some generations, no compelling reason to move.

Didn't think about air pollution but it makes sense.

It is kinda sad to see such an obvious market being left unexploited.

[brucegoniners]

7-11? Oh yeah, that's where I get my really good wine, lol

[Puccini]

8 hours ago, TaoNow said:

For those readers with price envy -- fear not.

 

Studies have shown that the average wine drinker (like the blokes on this Forum) cannot tell the difference between affordable wines and the much more expensive bottles (e.g., $20 versus, say, $75-$100).

 

In the case of Thailand, the important distinction is whether you can taste the difference between Mont Clair/Mar Sol, and the 600-700 baht wines.

 

Word to the wise...

When I drink a wine I can tell whether I like it or not, but not whether it is good or bad.

 

As for drinking wine and other alcoholic beverages on my visits to Thailand, I stopped that many years ago in silent protest against the high import duties and excise taxes.

[peterfranks]

3 minutes ago, Puccini said:

When I drink a wine I can tell whether I like it or not, but not whether it is good or bad.

I'm exactly same mate, but I notice from this forum that most members confuse quality and taste with alcohol content

[hotchilli]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

In Thailand for wine there is a tariff of 60 percent on imports. 

And Thailand is always looking for free trade agreements..

Thailand is gouging the world via price fixing while trying to sell cheaply and protect it's domestic products.

[heybuz]

16 hours ago, xylophone said:

I love my wine far too much to not buy it here, so I do seek out wines which are not too expensive (although the occasional one is great to taste) and which suit my palate.

 

I'm not a beer drinker, nor do I like spirits, so wine it has to be and as long as I can still find a few reasonable Aussie wines in shops here, then I'm happy, although I have just ordered six bottles of Appassimento (from Veneto) by way of a change.

 

One can still find reasonable bottles of Aussie wines in certain shops and a favourite of mine at the moment is the "19 Crimes" red blend which I can buy here at 480 baht a bottle. Then there is the Barwang range which can still be bought for 399 baht (although I've seen the price of this shoot up by 100 baht a bottle just recently in some shops). Then of course there is the Wolf Blass Eaglehawk range which sells for 399 baht, and although it is the lowest wine in their range, it's an okay wine with Thai food or pizza, but not one that I buy.

 

I get the occasional very good wine from an importer/distributor here who sometimes has a clear out of his slow-moving wines and have paid 600 baht for a wine that was retailing at twice that amount, and it was fabulous.

 

The bargains are out there, but beware, so is the rubbish wine, and it doesn't hurt to buy the occasional good wine just to break the monotony – – and for the record, I wouldn't touch Jacob's Creek anyway, and especially not at the price quoted by another poster!

19 crimes wine from liquor barn in oz sells for 425 bht on recent exchange rates' also like it but for only 50 bht difference price not bad.

 

[Thechook]

14 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Grapes are fruit too. Besides If they halved the taxes on wines maybe the people and espially expats would drink more and sales could be doubled or more and therefor more beneficial for the tax office 

Taxes are high to protect local producers and Thai wines

[Excel]

44 minutes ago, Thechook said:

Taxes are high to protect local producers and Thai wines

Protect them from what ? Allowing Thais to understand what a good wine imported from wherever really is ? rather  than the sh*te vinegar that the local Thais produce and pass off as wine ?

[pomchop]

I used to drive by a big booze wholesaler in Chiang Rai where it was not unusual to see cases of wine sitting out in the very hot sun for hours....not saying they all do that but my guess is a lot of wine in Thailand is not properly stored and may well be bad......except for very upscale sellers i suspect you'd be out of luck trying to convince Thais to take back or refund a bottle of wine gone bad.......i stick to beer in Thailand as for me the wine is absurdly expensive and i would rather drink beer and spend the savings on something else.

[mikebell]

On 8/20/2022 at 5:09 AM, webfact said:

This is almost entirely due to Thailand's heavy and complex alcohol excise and tax regime.

And the determination to promote Thailand's own vinegar industry.  Anything for farangs is fair game.

[Chongalulu]

13 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Other posters might like some background on wines from Australia, if you don't there is nobody twisting your arm to read what I post.

My point is it's a mass-produced wine. Paying 600 baht for it is complete BS.

You appear a little touchy! How can I react to a post without reading it - some sort of logic disconnect there?? 
Yes,it’s a mass produced wine and ALL wine here is overpriced due to the tax regime.I’d already pointed out it was half that price in U.K.  I was simply asking your opinion as to whether there are better choices HERE in that bracket. 

[ThailandRyan]

27 minutes ago, mikebell said:

And the determination to promote Thailand's own vinegar industry.  Anything for farangs is fair game.

So you believe any wine made in Thailand is no more than vinegar, interesting.

[Boomer6969]

On 8/20/2022 at 7:34 AM, tingtongfarang said:

surprised anyone would buy wine in thailand at these prises

I do, but it would be ridiculous to buy it to get drunk, I drink wine to enhance the dining experience, So one or two bottles week remains affordable. Otherwise I have given up on beer, it messes up my prostate, and I don't miss it anyway.

[jaywalker2]

14 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I took a gamble on a bottle of Thai wine at Big C for 199 Baht.  It was awful.  Never again.  I do not believe it was aged properly in a barrel? It tasted like rotten grape juice.  

Thai wines should be selling for around 100 baht a bottle. I can't imagine who is paying 300 or 400 baht for the stuff.

[Lacessit]

45 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

You appear a little touchy! How can I react to a post without reading it - some sort of logic disconnect there?? 
Yes,it’s a mass produced wine and ALL wine here is overpriced due to the tax regime.I’d already pointed out it was half that price in U.K.  I was simply asking your opinion as to whether there are better choices HERE in that bracket. 

When someone says what I am posting is irrelevant, it sounds to me like a put-down, and I am quite intolerant of people who do that. Hence my response.

IMO there are not really any "better" choices, unless one is prepared to shell out 2000 - 3000 baht for decent wine.

Irrigated wines such as Yellowtail fill the mouth; however, there are few nuances to them. They are reasonably balanced, without ageing subtleties. Adequate is my description of them.

I suppose I am spoilt for wine, having drunk Booth's Premium Shiraz in its heyday of 1990, and Heathcote and Margaret River wines that retail for over $100 in Australia. Those were the days.

 

[ThailandRyan]

28 minutes ago, jaywalker2 said:

Thai wines should be selling for around 100 baht a bottle. I can't imagine who is paying 300 or 400 baht for the stuff.

Really, so all Thai wines? You need to get out more.

Edited August 21, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[morrobay]

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Australian wines that would be classed as barely drinkable there are priced outrageously here, so I don't bother. Jacob's Creek for 700 - 800 baht a bottle, spare me.

 

Thai wine is dreck, for two good reasons.

 

 

 

The second is technical knowledge. Wine analysis is a very specialized and niche industry, and dedicated laboratories are few and far between. There are only two such facilities in Australia, I doubt there would be any in Thailand. If a wine-maker here has a stuck ferment or smoke taint, I doubt they have the knowledge or tools to measure them accurately. If you don't measure it, you can't control it.

 

I've tasted Thai wines a few times, they invariably are out of balance on acidity, tannins, residual sugars and fruit. Yet to encounter one I would call drinkable, let alone supernacular.

 

 

Indeed they do not have the technical knowledge to produce wine. The awful taste of these so called Thai wines is mostly from excess acetaldehyde from incomplete fermentation: the aldehyde is not being reduced (addition of hydrogen) to produce ethanol.

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, morrobay said:

Indeed they do not have the technical knowledge to produce wine. The awful taste of these so called Thai wines is mostly from excess acetaldehyde from incomplete fermentation: the aldehyde is not being reduced (addition of hydrogen) to produce ethanol.

You better look at a few of the true vineyards and wineries in Thailand before you start talking your nonsense.

[morrobay]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fault

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, morrobay said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fault

Your point is what all Thai wines have these wine faults, try again. Also be a good chap and visit the true wineries where you can take a tour and do a tasting.....

 

I grew up in the Napa Valley, so drinking good wines and doing tours and tastings go along way.

Edited August 21, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[morrobay]

 Can you name a good Thai wine from one of the Thai wineries you referred that is available in Pattaya ?  The last bottle of Thai wine I bought could not even be used for cooking

Edited August 21, 2022 by morrobay

[Lacessit]

36 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You better look at a few of the true vineyards and wineries in Thailand before you start talking your nonsense.

If you can show me a laboratory in Thailand capable of performing wine analysis for smoke taint guaiacols, I might start believing you.

 

The link is to what I would call a dedicated wine analysis and winemaking supply company in Australia, which is used by about 70% of vineyards there.

 

If Thailand has a company as state of the art as that, I'll bare my butt in Chatuchak Market.

 

https://www.vintessential.com.au/winemaking-store/

 

Instead of making vague unsubstantiated assertions, please post a brand, year, varietal and price of a Thai wine you consider to be good quality.

[Lacessit]

25 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Your point is what all Thai wines have these wine faults, try again. Also be a good chap and visit the true wineries where you can take a tour and do a tasting.....

 

I grew up in the Napa Valley, so drinking good wines and doing tours and tastings go along way.

You grew up in the Napa Valley? I have news for you, Australians regard wines from that region as only fit for cardboard cartons. Thin and insipid.

 

I guess it depends on what one's palate gets trained for. A full-bodied Aussie Shiraz would probably overload your taste buds.

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 8/20/2022 at 5:09 AM, webfact said:

One of our AseanNow viewers posted this comment recently, “I think in general it is clear that Thailand is not a traditional wine drinking culture and most wine is imported, so it is in the country's interest to tax it heavily as a luxury to discourage more foreign debt.

Neither is Cambodia and there is hardly any tax on imported wine there.

[Mr Meeseeks]

21 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

Thailand isn't a wine drinking culture only because wine costs so much. I remember when Thailand wasn't a coffee drinking culture and you could only find coffee at the international hotels or when McDonald's first appeared and was predicted to fail becaue Thais don't eat hamburgers.

 

Lower the duty, liberalize the market, and I'll bet you'll see wine drinking take off. That's what happened in Japan and the Japanese supposedly weren't a wine drinking culture either.  But everybody loves wine when it's affordable.

This ????

[xylophone]

14 hours ago, Baron Samedi said:

Prices suck but I gotta say it looks like a nice place to relax ????☀️????

Have been there a couple of times and sampled the red wines on offer and IMO they were very average and certaily not worth the price tag. Nice location though.

[VocalNeal]

On 8/20/2022 at 7:14 AM, Henryford said:

"has now become" ? wasn't it always a luxury.

98.8% of Thais don't drink wine. The Mercedes set do. They underpay their income tax so the government gets it by taxing what they buy.

[toofarnorth]

18 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

I too, seek out moderately priced red wines.  Thanks for the recommendations.  I usually concentrate on Australian and Chilean wines, as Thailand seems to have bilateral trade relations with them.  One of the better brands (600 Baht) is Louis Philippe Edwards in the Malbec and Pinot Noir, available in Topp’s Market.  And if you can buy and wait a year—some of the less expensive reds at BigC turn out OK—such as LaVida.  I even find some decent California reds—Gallo and Robert Mondavi from time to time.

I drink less wine and more beer now because of the cost.  And I only drink socially anyway.  Happy hunting.

You mentioned Chilean wine., Just looked and can't see on the label but Knight Black Horse I think is chilean and at a local supermarket it costs 490B for 1.5 litres . Oh there is a yellow band over the cork. Yes, buy this wine if you are with cork screw. A nice drop of Red but after drinking wine in the LoS I may have lost touch with decent wines.

[ThailandRyan]

37 minutes ago, morrobay said:

 Can you name a good Thai wine from one of the Thai wineries you referred that is available in Pattaya ?  The last bottle of Thai wine I bought could not even be used for cooking

Not sure if the Monsoon Valley wines are sold outside of the winery. You can also look for wines from Granmote Vineyards they are sold in wine and beer stores, their Petitite Sirah, and Cabernet are decent. All you can do is look. Not sure about availability in Pattaya, so why do you not ask or better yet take your own trip over to Hua Hin or up to Kao Yai.