Lack of gratitude in a Thai relationship

[Kenny202]

Been here 10 years and still struggle with this. It's like if they show any sort of gratitude or thanks it would kill them, or they are exposing themself in someway. I understand if there is a huge age difference where the relationship is based more on needs than any sort of real feelings, or a bar girl relationship where she is always weighing up the benefits of you vs the "glamorous" bar lifestyle....but in a normal sort of relationship where you are monetarily /effort wise clearly bringing 95% more to the table than she is....maybe taking care of her kid/s....extended family etc. It's almost like you are never doing enough or should try better. It goes from extremes of course some overtly selfish greedy and entitled....and in other cases the girl may show gratitude in some small ways but the word "thank you" would never leave their lips. Nor will they ever say they are sorry. I know it may be expectant of Western values in a different culture but I think it is a basic human need to get some positive feedback or reinforcement. I mean so may times have lived with women like this yet they will meet a Thai on the street they met 2 minutes ago bowing and scraping, nearly falling over themselves to prostrate them selves thanking whoever it is for virtually nothing? I often said to my last girl she seemed to treat food delivery drivers with more appreciation and respect than she did me 5555. I mean it is what it is here and you have to grudgingly accept it like many things if you want to live here but it has never gotten easier for me.  

 

It does seem to be a thing with Thai / farang relationships where the girl is a lot more expectant of a foreigner....nearly like she has taken a down grade and expected to be renumerated for it. Or possibly needs to show she has met the golden goose and should have all the trimmings to show off. And I do believe after being here this long they do see us as a last resort / easy way out of debt rather than even a normal relationship or step up in society. Maybe bragging rights on Facebook in a monetary sense. Actually had a girl once say to me when I refused money for something "live with farang for what". I have also asked the question "tell me again what exactly are you bringing to this relationship or doing for me to be told"...... "I live with you every day". Like that in itself should be enough thanks or a sign she is thankful.

 

I set up in a village here with my first girl...She from a very poor abusive back ground and the village itself extremely poor. Some people didn't even have cement on the floors. It seemed to be a great sense of shame to her that I only built a modest single story home and bought a brand new 4WD pick up, rather than a "sport car" (Corolla etc lol). Also she seemed be embarrassed that I wasn't prepared to loan money to the many people that asked her. Loss of face or something. I wasn't going to throw money at people I know I would never be returned just because she had difficulty saying no. The area was all pot holed dirt roads for FS and the 4WD pick up was cheaper than a small Jap car. No brainer. People according to her making comments that themselves lived in a  hovel akin to a cave lol. The girl had gold...by far the best house and vehicle within 20km of her home but it was never enough....and I think where most of us make that mistake when we come here. We think we will set up...build the house, buy the gold etc then settle down to a modest lifestyle on some sort of budget. That's where the trouble starts when the free flow of money slows down. She has the house in her name....she found you easy enough? Must be more like you out there. Rinse and repeat. Those types usually end up right back where they started penniless back in a village or bar but that's another story. I have lived with women here for periods where they never seemed happy or satisfied. They themselves never contributed in anyway ....not even cooking or cleaning up after themselves let alone take responsibility for anything in the house or even their own kids. Some wont even make the effort to be pleasant or civil. In the end when you get tired of it and hold up the stop sign they refuse to go lol. Many I have lived with seemingly would like to goad you into giving them a beating or something....I can only assume so they would have something over you or some leverage. Have also lived with girls where they seem to be formulating a Facebook list of slights you have made against them.....which I have come to understand is a face saving insurance they keep to justify why yet another one of their relationships have failed. Like they are always planning the end of the relationship rather than focus on what they can do to build a strong lasting relationship. Planning to fail so to speak. I dunno must be some sort of self defense mechanism they acquire after a life of struggle / abuse. I have seen both things described above though in at least 50% of relationships I have had. Seems common. Has anyone else experienced that? Not really with a more educated girl but certainly a poorer class type. It's nearly like a relationship is war....where one or the other will win and the other kicked to the kerb. Constant battle. 

 

I'm not the sort of bloke who doles out monthly allowances etc but on the other hand I am not tight either. I live on a budget and am careful with money....certainly don't have the cash to be buying people free houses anymore but who ever I am with usually has a full wallet at their disposal within reason and supporting her child in every way not only financially but as a real father. I don't wave a money wand and pay out loans credit cards but will certainly help with payments. I take care of myself and kids fully as far as cooking and supervision is concerned. Rarely drink or go out night time. On the other hand none of this seems to be expected from a Thai husband / boyfriend? Particularly in the lower classes have seen girls make no effort in a Western relationship, relationship breaks down and lose a decent, caring Western guy back to a Thai where she is the sole bread winner...living in near poverty while the BF is at home lazing about....has other girls on the side and gives her a smack in the chops for her trouble when required. Scratching around for 10 baht to buy mama noodles. I guess they may be sorry later but as everything Thai they don't seem to learn or appreciate anything until too late.   

[law ling]

Generalizations are not always useful, but there's a lot of truth in what you say Sir.

[scubascuba3]

Difficult for girls to fake it for long, find a new one, preferably one who likes and appreciates you

[bkk6060]

18 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I mean so may times have lived with women like this

How many times?

Sounds like in 10 years you have not learned how to properly evaluate a Thai female prior to living with them.

Complain, complain, complain maybe take a look at yourself and your relationship choices/decisions.

[2009]

Some people are just worthless and should be avoided.

 

Typically, the ones who try to search out farang for a relationship fall into this category. 

 

I also think they treat each other this way too. So it ain't just us.

 

It is more prevalent in people coming from the low socioeconomic places.

[Denim]

But apart from all that everything is great and I'm as happy as a pig in poo.

 

 

[Excel]

4 minutes ago, 2009 said:

Some people are just worthless and should be avoided.

 

Typically, the ones who try to search out farang for a relationship fall into this category. 

 

I also think they treat each other this way too. So it ain't just us.

 

It is more prevalent in people coming from the low socioeconomic places.

is your statement  based upon your own personal research project or anothers, if so please publish the paper, or simply based upon your own personal prejudices ?

[2009]

1 minute ago, Excel said:

is your statement  based upon your own personal research project or anothers, if so please publish the paper, or simply based upon your own personal prejudices ?

There are countless stories like this on here. Seems common in the farang-Thai relationship.

 

And do the people the OP describes sound worthwhile people to you?

 

You should be aware that in low socioeconomic areas there are way more social social problems and abuse, right? There have been research papers written on that 

[CharlieH]

If you do what youve always done, you'll get what you've always got !

 

I can see alot of similarities to the OP but thankfully never actually experienced it as he has.

 

I think its important not to assume people behave in a certain way, but that you have to teach them what is important to you and the way you were brought up and what is considered rude if it isnt done etc. A relationship is about both sides, and sometimes you need to educate as well as learn especially in mixed relationships.

 

[Excel]

2 minutes ago, 2009 said:

There are countless stories like this on here. Seems common in the farang-Thai relationship.

 

And do the people the OP describes sound worthwhile people to you?

 

You should be aware that in low socioeconomic areas there are way more social social problems and abuse, right? There have been research papers written on that 

You have said it "Stories". ????, so many of which are unsubstantiated.  I left believing in fairytales behind when I was a young child but clearly some people never ever really grow up.  Also this thread is about lack of gratitude in a Thai relationship, not about abuse which you attempt to deflect onto.

[GammaGlobulin]

Most people here show sincere gratitude for any crumbs I might deign to throw their way. 

 

But, still, I never require them to genuflect, overly, in public. 

[CharlieH]

2 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Most people here show sincere gratitude for any crumbs I might deign to throw there way. 

 

But, still, I never require them to genuflect, overly, in public. 

 

To save others looking it up ????

gen·u·flect

/ˈjenyəˌflekt/

 

verb

1. lower one's body briefly by bending one knee to the ground, typically in worship or as a sign of respect.

   "she genuflected and crossed herself"

[GammaGlobulin]

1 minute ago, CharlieH said:

 

To save others looking it up ????

gen·u·flect

/ˈjenyəˌflekt/

 

verb

1. lower one's body briefly by bending one knee to the ground, typically in worship or as a sign of respect.

   "she genuflected and crossed herself"

You provided the polite definition of the word, I guess. 

[Lacessit]

A thread that is a magnet for bitter Westerners. I suppose they reap what they sow.

I believe my GF is grateful for what I have given her. If she is not, she's a pretty good actress. I get respect from her and the family, if I did not I would be gone.

IMO the key to a good relationship here is setting boundaries.

Thais live in the present. It's a strength in one way, because they don't hark back to the past like we do. OTOH, it also limits their capacity to plan for the future.

 

 

[Gottfrid]

It´s generalizing and degrading posts like this, that can spoil any day of the year. If a person is not happy in Thailand, and just continue complain in a relationship they are free to leave whenever. Then it´s entirely their own fault! 

[Lacessit]

13 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Most people here show sincere gratitude for any crumbs I might deign to throw their way. 

 

But, still, I never require them to genuflect, overly, in public. 

Are you OK? Your post is one of the shortest I have ever seen from you.

[daveAustin]

Topic could do with a TL;DR. 

Posit the showing of gratitude in sugar daddy type relationships (not that yours were) might construe major loss of face. They already know they’re ‘kept’; why make it worse? ????
Have you tried dating to your age range, educational/financial level, social background? How’s your Thai?

[GammaGlobulin]

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Are you OK? Your post is one of the shortest I have ever seen from you.

[Excel]

21 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

A thread that is a magnet for bitter Westerners. I suppose they reap what they sow.

You are 100% correct in that conclusion as can be seen from some of the posters already. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

It's almost like you are never doing enough or should try better. It goes from extremes of course some overtly selfish greedy and entitled....and in other cases the girl may show gratitude in some small ways but the word "thank you" would never leave their lips. Nor will they ever say they are sorry. I know it may be expectant of Western values in a different culture but I think it is a basic human need to get some positive feedback or reinforcement. I mean so may times have lived with women like this yet they will meet a Thai on the street they met 2 minutes ago bowing and scraping, nearly falling over themselves to prostrate them selves thanking whoever it is for virtually nothing? I often said to my last girl she seemed to treat food delivery drivers with more appreciation and respect than she did me 5555.

Do you notice a pattern?

You let it happen!

IMHO many Thais are great in adapting to different situations and different people.

And they are used to the fact that there is, in any given situation, one person who is in charge and another person who follows that person who is in charge.

If you make it clear that you are in charge, then they will do what you tell them to do.

And if you are not in charge then guess what. Then they will lead and tell you what to do.

In your case it is obvious that you are not in charge...

 

I remember one of my favorite bargirls. She was perfect for every customer - just in different ways.

I.e. when I was with her, she played the naughty schoolgirl. When she was with other guys then she looked and behaved in other ways. Other clothes, other make-up, it sees she adapted perfectly to whatever the guy was looking for. And I am pretty sure all of us customers though that the version which they saw was her true self. Like: for all those others she plays a show. Only for me she is like she really is. Yeah, sure.

 

 

 

 

[BangkokReady]

41 minutes ago, 2009 said:

And do the people the OP describes sound worthwhile people to you?

This is certainly one issue.  The OP points out that they aren't "bar girls", as though that is the only group of people that could possibly be problematic.  They can still be opportunistic users.  He mentions them having kids and possibly seeing a foreigner as a last resort, which sounds quite likely.

 

If they're just using a foreign guy for money, bar girl or not, it will show in the relationship.  If "not a prostitute" is synonymous with "not a bad person", then you may not be exercising the best judgement.

 

Anyone who says "I stay with you" as a explanation of what they bring to the relationship is basically an employee.  Would someone be on this sub asking why their maid doesn't love them?

[Kenny202]

My post are mainly about observations that I have never understood or probably come to terms with, rather than complaints. I do actually like living here and thought I was clear in stating not all women here are like that nor have all my relationships been awful. I am not even really stating in all cases women are ungrateful, rather than me no understanding their reluctance to show it for whatever reason. Anyway read into it what you will. I don't think my thoughts are uncommon here in anyway, certainly not in my experience. I don't know too many guys here have had great rewarding, successful relationships. At best maybe still together out of necessity or convenience and barely tolerate each other, unless the guy has deep pockets. Anyway, maybe things weren't so different back home. Or same same but different 

[2009]

46 minutes ago, Excel said:

You have said it "Stories". ????, so many of which are unsubstantiated.  I left believing in fairytales behind when I was a young child but clearly some people never ever really grow up.  Also this thread is about lack of gratitude in a Thai relationship, not about abuse which you attempt to deflect onto.

How do you substantiate countless people's experiences?

 

Ever heard of financial abuse?

 

What about emotional neglect?

 

Maybe you need to reread the OP.

[2009]

1 hour ago, Denim said:

But apart from all that everything is great and I'm as happy as a pig in poo.

 

 

This quite literally describes many here. Lol

[scubascuba3]

4 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I don't know too many guys here have had great rewarding, successful relationships. At best maybe still together out of necessity or convenience and barely tolerate each other

Because the "relationship" is flawed from the off as it's based on money and when you get to the age where you need the woman to take care, she may well despise you.

 

Single is great, then when you need to be properly taken care of, get one

[brianthainess]

Sorry but i have not read all the replies nor the long OP heard it all before, the more you give the more they expect, my missus does say thank you for the smallest things, I do give my wife a monthly allowance even now and payed for the land and made a small house but where i wanted to live, but anything she wants she buys not me, easier for me to budget , though she has her own small salon, sewing, and selling food, work ethic is what she has, and she is still helping to support her adult kids who also have good work ethic.

I would never move to 'Their' village and from the very start told her not to tell her extended family up north she had a falang boyfriend/husband, I've  never met them nor do i want to.

  After the death of my friend last week she has closed her shop to help me with all the arrangements, and now here I am sitting in hospital with a skin infection, while she sleeps on the floor next to me, not only does she help me but the also others in the ward. Yep she IS different and I am a very lucky man indeed.

[Kenny202]

11 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Do you notice a pattern?

You let it happen!

IMHO many Thais are great in adapting to different situations and different people.

And they are used to the fact that there is, in any given situation, one person who is in charge and another person who follows that person who is in charge.

If you make it clear that you are in charge, then they will do what you tell them to do.

And if you are not in charge then guess what. Then they will lead and tell you what to do.

In your case it is obvious that you are not in charge...

 

I remember one of my favorite bargirls. She was perfect for every customer - just in different ways.

I.e. when I was with her, she played the naughty schoolgirl. When she was with other guys then she looked and behaved in other ways. Other clothes, other make-up, it sees she adapted perfectly to whatever the guy was looking for. And I am pretty sure all of us customers though that the version which they saw was her true self. Like: for all those others she plays a show. Only for me she is like she really is. Yeah, sure.

 

 

 

 

I think if you read my post you will see I don't let it happen, not for any length of time anyway. I see lots of your posts and you know yourself it can take a short time or a long time to really see what the girl will be like. Can be 2 weeks or 2 years. Like any relationship things either get better and grow or they don't. Generalizations aside I think it is fair comment to say many if not most Thai women have unrealistic expectations of a farang relationship. Particularly financially. They either accept reality or don't moving forward and they may stay albeit bitterly for want of a better option or not. My feeling has never been if you don't like it FO, but never understand why someone stays when they are clearly unsatisfied. If you don't have any better choices make the best of it and be happy....not make everyone's life (including your own) la misery. And yes agree that you have to be the leader. I have always done what I thought was best and make decisions based on every ones well being. If I am irresponsible with finances everyone will eventually lose. Not getting sucked into the "this is the culture, you need to show off and throw money at everyone" thing.   

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I think if you read my post you will see I don't let it happen, not for any length of time anyway. I see lots of your posts and you know yourself it can take a short time or a long time to really see what the girl will be like. Can be 2 weeks or 2 years. Like any relationship things either get better and grow or they don't. Generalizations aside I think it is fair comment to say many if not most Thai women have unrealistic expectations of a farang relationship. Particularly financially. They either accept reality or don't moving forward and they may stay albeit bitterly for want of a better option or not. My feeling has never been if you don't like it FO, but never understand why someone stays when they are clearly unsatisfied. If you don't have any better choices make the best of it and be happy....not make everyone's life (including your own) la misery. And yes agree that you have to be the leader. I have always done what I thought was best and make decisions based on every ones well being. If I am irresponsible with finances everyone will eventually lose. Not getting sucked into the "this is the culture, you need to show off and throw money at everyone" thing.   

Thanks for your reply.

I have to admit I read only maybe 1/3 of your original post. Because it is so very long.

But at the beginning you showed already that you let things happen.

And now you write: "They either accept reality or don't moving forward and they may stay albeit bitterly for want of a better option or not."

They, the girls?

How about you? You could move forward and not accept her behavior. Tell her stop it or I am out of here. And then act accordingly.

 

A couple of years ago my gf though it is a good idea to tell me all the time what mistakes I made in the past. Yes, I made mistakes and I apologized. But she still complained again and again. That was the moment when I told her I have enough of this. Go to your village, think about your behavior. I don't want to see you. Maybe two months later I let her come back. And she was again a nice girl, and she didn't complain all the time. That happened a couple of years ago and she still is 95% of the time a nice girl. Problem solved.

And if she would not have changed then we wouldn't be together anymore. I won't let a girl ruin my life - even if she can be nice if she wants to be nice.

 

[chalawaan]

Sounds like you may have metaphorically gone for the sexiest slut on Soi 6 for the flex, and now you're paying dearly! 

 

 

We've all done it.

Whether for just an hour, or a relationship, and come away feeling scammed.

 

 

I never go for the hotties, they're usually the female version of those dating boot camp guys who game chicks non-stop.

 

 

Anyways I have a good older woman now, and we have mutual respect and our previous emotional scars to bond us. 

She gives me a very long leash. Actually she's now menopausal and not interested in sex. 

 

But I understand sex and love need to be kept very seperate under such a generous arrangement on her part.

 

 

So I get great cooking, fun companionship, we're always getting high (which she arranges) and going out on the town for a few hours, and I never stop hugging her, and telling her she's beautiful, and bringing her flowers from our garden, and morning coffee in bed every day.

In return, I get plenty opportunities to openly date when she's out of town. 

I even share the girls pictures, as she seems to get a buzz out of passing judgement on thier looks.

 

I tell these girls, I'm married straight up. Sometimes money changes hands sometimes not.

There's always of course, something in it for them, if only an extravagant night out in return for some slap and tickle. They're not young enough to be my granddaughter either. Late 30s up. 

 

This is the way to go.

 

Don't fall for some vain beautiful useless ride that will break your heart, bust your balls, and leave you broke. 

 

 

Also (to anyone reading)  get a vasectomy! It's the single most important thing a man can to ensure a life of selfish indulgence! 

If you want deeper meaning, go help the less fortunate, just don't breed!

 

 

[Kenny202]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

 

A couple of years ago my gf though it is a good idea to tell me all the time what mistakes I made in the past. Yes, I made mistakes and I apologized. But she still complained again and again. That was the moment when I told her I have enough of this. Go to your village, think about your behavior. I don't want to see you. Maybe two months later I let her come back. And she was again a nice girl, and she didn't complain all the time. That happened a couple of years ago and she still is 95% of the time a nice girl. Problem solved.

And if she would not have changed then we wouldn't be together anymore. I won't let a girl ruin my life - even if she can be nice if she wants to be nice.

 

I have always made that my policy. If the relationship starts off based on money or there are major psycho, jealousy, trust issues early on....they seldom improve....but every now and then there are extenuating circumstances like kids involved or maybe the threat of a huge embarrassing screaming performance at the front of your home. No reason to unreasonably suffer a bad relationship but sometimes you have to pick your moments. I find usually best to let them leave themselves in a fit of irrational rage and simply refuse to let them come back.

 

I am in a relationship now where things have improved over time and it has probably been worth some heartache. and about 95% is about as good as it gets in any relationship. Very wary of going back now after a split. If it failed before probably will again. Rarely does anything change much, not for any length of time anyway