Self insure v health insurance

[SteveBull]

3 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Not in my experience. I just had a procedure 2 weeks ago  at a hospital where the package price was on their website in Thai language. But that's what I got  -- except as a farang I had to pay for the PCR which is free for Thais.

 

All this while my wife was out of town.

 

Yep, it's highly unlikely in my experience a respected hospital is going to rip you off and that kind of scenario is usually dreamt up on expat forums. The price is the price, if there are small nuances, like your PCR then that's something that has to be sucked up. At the end of the day you go to hospital hoping for the best, and if they do that for you that's all that counts. 

 

Plus of course there has to be some benefit of being a local right ? It happens in all western countries so I don't see the problem really. Infact when my UK doctor found out I had moved to Thailand (and to this day I still have no idea how he found out), I was sent a letter saying I had been removed from his surgeries list, and all future treatment could be chargeable.

 

 

[internationalism]

1 hour ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Does anyone know how to get a very high deductible insurance plan where I pay my deductible at the insurance company's lower rate (than the normal public rate)?

 

I am 62 and have pre existing conditions...

 

Thank you!

 

Note I spoke to a Thai insurance broker in the past but was told that type of insurance does not exist in Thailand.

 

Currently I have a Bangkok hospital plan where with their hospitals I get a discounted rate on their platinum plan. So let say I pay 50% of the room rate half is discounted and half I pay out of pocket. So sort of a middle path plan...

from thai insurers only pacific cross has up to 300k deductible, Luma up to 192k, April up to 200k, LMG up to 200k.

The PC gives 50% discount for 300k deductible. Also up to 20% discount for not claiming. So up to 70% total.

 

Problem, they will exclude your pre-existing - or refuse policy.

 

Bangkok hospital is private, one of the more expensive. They have offered you 50% for bed, but charge for treatments, medicines, care, tests etc. 

Cost of bed is insignificant in comparison to every else they will skim you.

Do count in the governmental hospitals, this 850b for bed on a common ward or 2500b at single occupancy is much less than your 50%, which still might come around 5k.

 

Check

https://misterprakan.com/th/health/plans?gender=Male&age=62&lg=en&ipd=1&opdf=0&leadid=348157

but only expensive policies have deductibles, no need for them at cheap ones.

 

Also Thai Health Insurance PCL has deductible up to 200k

https://www.aainsure.net/thai-health/

Edited August 26, 2022 by internationalism

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

The claim I bang on about was me. Not anecdotal. I have documents. 

 

Unless you mean the guy I referenced just once who was in a coma for 6 months at a government hospital but that guy was once voted Poster of the Year on Thaivisa.com so not just "some guy".

wow poster of the year, truly the pinnacle 

[1FinickyOne]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

they are not however what you might call normal people.

In what way are they not normal? and who is normal? 

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

53 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

wow poster of the year, truly the pinnacle 

Everybody knows who he is and what he went through -- based on what you have posted, you do not even know that the "Some guy" you talked to was ever actually in a coma.

[jerrymahoney]

38 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

In what way are they not normal? and who is normal? 

 

 

1. Extravagantly wealthy people. 2. Not extravagantly wealthy people.

[rumak]

40 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

In what way are they not normal? and who is normal? 

 

 

Normally a normal person will recognize other normal persons .   However abnormal people might need to read lots of internet stories which normally have no relation at all to normal life,  unless normal is the "new normal"  where most things are disinformation , fact checked according to who pays for it,   and so normal becomes something very different to those using the argument .

Normally catch phrases such as "everybody knows"  and " the majority of experts agree"  are indicators of abnormal people trying to pass themselves off as normal

 

topic:  to insure or not to insure   .      oh,    for sure:   up to you   

[jerrymahoney]

11 minutes ago, rumak said:

Normally a normal person will recognize other normal persons .   However abnormal people might need to read lots of internet stories which normally have no relation at all to normal life,  unless normal is the "new normal"  where most things are disinformation , fact checked according to who pays for it,   and so normal becomes something very different to those using the argument .

Normally catch phrases such as "everybody knows"  and " the majority of experts agree"  are indicators of abnormal people trying to pass themselves off as normal

 

topic:  to insure or not to insure   .      oh,    for sure:   up to you   

Or as the late US Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan put it: 

 

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”

[TravelerEastWest]

3 hours ago, internationalism said:

from thai insurers only pacific cross has up to 300k deductible, Luma up to 192k, April up to 200k, LMG up to 200k.

The PC gives 50% discount for 300k deductible. Also up to 20% discount for not claiming. So up to 70% total.

 

Problem, they will exclude your pre-existing - or refuse policy.

 

Bangkok hospital is private, one of the more expensive. They have offered you 50% for bed, but charge for treatments, medicines, care, tests etc. 

Cost of bed is insignificant in comparison to every else they will skim you.

Do count in the governmental hospitals, this 850b for bed on a common ward or 2500b at single occupancy is much less than your 50%, which still might come around 5k.

 

Check

https://misterprakan.com/th/health/plans?gender=Male&age=62&lg=en&ipd=1&opdf=0&leadid=348157

but only expensive policies have deductibles, no need for them at cheap ones.

 

Also Thai Health Insurance PCL has deductible up to 200k

https://www.aainsure.net/thai-health/

I agree with you that with my discount the room rate with nursing fees will be around 5 or 6,000 per day. The rooms are very comfortable though - smiling...

 

Actually I don't mind a shared room at all and it might be better at times. But Thai public hospitals from what I have seen are not very good - can be very crowded with very poor service - sure there are exceptions some special private/public clinics etc... Actually i got a COVId booster at a ;are public hospital with a private wing it was very good service.

 

Thank you for the insurance examples! seems like there still are no ,local Thai options where I pay the "wholesale" insurer price for the deductible like I used to do in America.

 

In three years at 65 I will qualify for Medicare so that might be the best way to go for any serious cancer/heart attack type problems.

 

Meanwhile I will eat well and exercise a lot.

 

Thanks again for your help!

[1FinickyOne]

16 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

the late US Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Thanks. I was talking to someone and couldn't think of his name yesterday.. 

[jerrymahoney]

15 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

In three years at 65 I will qualify for Medicare so that might be the best way to go for any serious cancer/heart attack type problems.

Well that's the thing for Americans with Medicare -- You have to be well enough to make  the 20+ hour trip back to USofA when you might not be well enough to make the trip to Bangkok.

[Rimmer]

Off topic whataboutism post removed

[scubascuba3]

42 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Everybody knows who he is and what he went through -- based on what you have posted, you do not even know that the "Some guy" you talked to was ever actually in a coma.

Whatever, i hope if anyone tells you a story you ask for evidence, preferably in writing and also a web link

[Photoguy21]

On 8/21/2022 at 7:37 PM, The Hammer2021 said:

Currently the NHS is in chaos with  cancer referrals over a year behind.

It's not fit for  purpose.  If you are British- all the  more reason to have real medical  coverage - to have good medical  insurance.

AnE waiting  time is 4 hours if you're  lucky. It's 4 minutes here  and 30 minutes  to see a specialist.

Two to three months to see a specialist on the No Health Service Britain.

 

It is being stated now that it can be 12 months in some cases to see a specialist in the UK.

[jerrymahoney]

19 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Whatever, i hope if anyone tells you a story you ask for evidence, preferably in writing and also a web link

A story is one thing. An anecdotal unsubstantiated claim that someone might factor into making a decision whether or not to buy health insurance is something else.

[macahoom]

On 8/23/2022 at 1:10 AM, internationalism said:

"the best for value policies are from the PC."

 

What's "the PC"?

[internationalism]

pacific cross

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

A story is one thing. An anecdotal unsubstantiated claim that someone might factor into making a decision whether or not to buy health insurance is something else.

You bought insurance based on weaker evidence than that, with nothing to evidence their financial stability and paying out on personal accidents is totally different to a proper health insurance claim

[jerrymahoney]

15 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

You bought insurance based on weaker evidence than that, with nothing to evidence their financial stability and paying out on personal accidents is totally different to a proper health insurance claim

I had been with CIGNA Global for 5 years with no claims. I moved to an area with no direct payment from CIGNA Global and I found that unacceptable.  So for that reason and others, I went with WrLife as they say more about what they do than you seem to realize. I declared no pre-existing conditions. And I not going repeat what I've already posted.

 

2 months after taking out the WrLife policy I am told by a orthopedic surgeon that my X-ray shows hip fracture. This will not heal. We can schedule hip replacement surgery tomorrow. I go to the insurance guy who says Who? We work with CIGNA every day but we don't know these people.

 

So while waiting for the guarantee of payment from WrLife, I was thinking: Mahoney. You may have made the dumbest decision of your life. With CIGNA the claim would already be guaranteed. With WrLife, I am reasonably confident but until it arrives, it ain't no guarantee.

 

Guarantee of Payment arrived. Claim paid 100% 

Edited August 26, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

I had been with CIGNA Global for 5 years with no claims. I moved to an area with no direct payment from CIGNA Global and I found that unacceptable.  So for that reason and others, I went with WrLife as they say more about what they do than you seem to realize. I declared no pre-existing conditions. And I not going repeat what I've already posted.

 

2 months after taking out the WrLife policy I am told by a orthopedic surgeon that my X-ray shows hip fracture. This will not heal. We can schedule hip replacement surgery tomorrow. I go to the insurance guy who says Who? We work with CIGNA every day but we don't know these people.

 

So while waiting for the guarantee of payment from WrLife, I was thinking: Mahoney. You may have made the dumbest decision of your life. With CIGNA the claim would already be guaranteed. With WrLife, I am reasonably confident but until it arrives, it ain't no guarantee.

 

Guarantee of Payment arrived. Claim paid 100% 

Thanks for posting.  Having just moved my wife and son to WRLife (I've been a policyholder for a year), it's reassuring to hear that claims are being met without hassle.

[TravelerEastWest]

5 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Well that's the thing for Americans with Medicare -- You have to be well enough to make  the 20+ hour trip back to USofA when you might not be well enough to make the trip to Bangkok.

You correct.

 

Most of the time I will be able too make it back to America and for the time when I can't I will simply have to pay for the procedure here.

 

I can't get insurance here due to age and pre existing conditions - so the choice is move back to America or self Insure... I choose to stay here. I think the odds are that an expensive illness such as cancer won't happen overnight- I am not worried about heart disease. An accident is certainly possible...!

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

I had been with CIGNA Global for 5 years with no claims. I moved to an area with no direct payment from CIGNA Global and I found that unacceptable.  So for that reason and others, I went with WrLife as they say more about what they do than you seem to realize. I declared no pre-existing conditions. And I not going repeat what I've already posted.

 

2 months after taking out the WrLife policy I am told by a orthopedic surgeon that my X-ray shows hip fracture. This will not heal. We can schedule hip replacement surgery tomorrow. I go to the insurance guy who says Who? We work with CIGNA every day but we don't know these people.

 

So while waiting for the guarantee of payment from WrLife, I was thinking: Mahoney. You may have made the dumbest decision of your life. With CIGNA the claim would already be guaranteed. With WrLife, I am reasonably confident but until it arrives, it ain't no guarantee.

 

Guarantee of Payment arrived. Claim paid 100% 

like i said personal accident claim no problem, we need to see a few years to see how it pans out

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Thanks for posting.  Having just moved my wife and son to WRLife (I've been a policyholder for a year), it's reassuring to hear that claims are being met without hassle.

only a PA claim, don't base anything on that

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Thanks for posting.  Having just moved my wife and son to WRLife (I've been a policyholder for a year), it's reassuring to hear that claims are being met without hassle.

Yes, claims are being met now. But the likelihood of that remaining the case given what seems to be an actuarially unsound business model and comparatively  low capital reserves is another matter entirely.  The likelihood of it remaining so at the current premium level is even less.

[jerrymahoney]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

only a PA claim, don't base anything on that

It was hip replacement surgery following an accident. If it was hip replacement surgery based upon a degenerative condition, that would be different?

[jerrymahoney]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Yes, claims are being met now. But the likelihood of that remaining the case given what seems to be an actuarially unsound business model and comparatively  low capital reserves is another matter entirely.  The likelihood of it remaining so at the current premium level is even less.

You are suggesting that there are no actuaries at their underwriting syndicates?

 

From a post different topic:

 

This thread is hilarious.

Nobody says the obvious:

The people at WR/AIS are well known in the industry.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1268153-wrlife-medical-insurance-experiences/?do=findComment&comment=17549445

Edited August 26, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

It was hip replacement surgery following an accident. If it was hip replacement surgery based upon a degenerative condition, that would be different?

In an accident it's difficult for them to refuse, If you'd seen a specialist with no accident and wanted the op it may be refused, that's one of the benefits of personal accident insurance 

[brewsterbudgen]

8 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Yes, claims are being met now. But the likelihood of that remaining the case given what seems to be an actuarially unsound business model and comparatively  low capital reserves is another matter entirely.  The likelihood of it remaining so at the current premium level is even less.

Are the current premium levels that low?  I'm just about to pay $2,300 to cover myself (62), wife and son on a family policy, and it's only slightly cheaper than I was quoted by other insurers? 

[yankyoakum]

Got a friend here whose been here decades, he is also over 70. He has had multiple medical insurance policies here over the years and the 2 times he had a serious problem they some how managed to pull the pre-existing condition card on both occasions and denied his claims.  These were not cheap policies.

 

Personally I will self insure as I have high BP, heart stint, lower back and knees, hips are a medical disaster. Partner my whole body is a pre-existing condition...555

 

I did get the BKK Bank accidental death/accident policy for around 5500 Baht a year that renews till I reach 100... Yea right, will be happy to make 70 here in a few months. If the $hit hits the fan we do have access to 100K US if needed. But what I have observed if the insurance is legit, most likely you can't afford it....  

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

In an accident it's difficult for them to refuse, If you'd seen a specialist with no accident and wanted the op it may be refused, that's one of the benefits of personal accident insurance 

I had prior to WrLife 5 years of no claims with CIGNA Global so hard for them to say pre-existing condition.

 

And WrLife is full medical policy not accident policy