Swedish pedestrian dies after being hit by a car while crossing the road in Phang Nga

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Im proud of my comments. People need to take cake

I think I need some of the cake that you've been eating       ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Sparktrader]

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I think I need some of the cake that you've been eating       ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

After seeing my friend 18yo die I view roads as dangerous places. Im a super safe driver. I walk safely.

 

Any other approach is wrong. You dont have the right to risk the lives of others. A bad walker could kill a baby in a car.

 

Everybody on a road needs to take care not just drivers.

 

Just because some drivers are foolish doesnt make it ok for walkers  to do whatever.

[tomazbodner]

Honestly didn't recognise Honda HRV from the front photo of the car... Video confirms the high speed that driver was going at to cause such amount of damage after hitting pedestrian. While crossing was not at a zebra and the pedestrian has checked and let another car pass, the car driver should see him and brake... or even just honk to get him to stop on lane before, if he could not stop in time (due to speed he was going). So I'd say he was probably distracted, playing with phone or whatever but surely wasn't observing the road in front of him, while driving at high speed, likely a lot above speed limit.

 

And last one - with the shape of vehicle after collision, he really didn't have any other option but to wait. It's not like he could just drive away, as definitely car couldn't even start, let alone drive.

[Gottfrid]

53 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

This is why....   what speed generates this damage when hitting a pedestrian ?  

 

Of course, the Swedish guy appears intoxicated and crosses the road without a great deal of concern for his surroundings.... he looked how many times, once ?

Then ‘ambled across the road’ without any great care or sense of self preservation. 

 

But, the oncoming car came fast.. when the Swede looked, the approaching car would have been much further away and if he was drunk, it would have been difficult for the Swede to judge the oncoming speed.... 

 

The video and the damage incurred to the car appears quite damning with regards to the car speeding. 

 

 

 

Additionally... your ‘attempted cynical irony' is utterly flawed... we only have to go back a few weeks to witness the scorn directed towards an Aus guy in Songkhla who pulled out in front of two girls on a motorcycle killing them... and another story of a Brit pensioner, allegedly drunk, reversing into a Thai man crushing him to death....  

 

 

 

Surely, I just made a fair question, as the standard here is ok to judge Thais without evidence and excuse foreigners without any evidence. And it still goes on, as you continue to post.

[smedly]

very sad RIP

 

that is some pretty serious damage, as already mentioned that car must have been going at very high speed, anyone know where this happened - was it a major road or in a built up area and was it at a crossing..........shocking to say the least

 

and is the genius in government these last few years ................ none other than acting PM Prawit, what a stellar job he's been doing

[richard_smith237]

39 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

 

Why don't you stop posting rubbish?! If everyone did everything perfectly, then there would not ever be any issues.

It's not a perfect world. The car driver should have seen him and either slowed down or steered around him.

The driver did neither. meaning that he was not paying attention to what was in front of him for quite a few seconds. 

Walker did what was normal. Check and walk, expecting that any approaching driver would be able to see him.

I'm not sure that walking across the road ‘expecting that any approaching driver would be able to see them’ is an intelligent approach to crossing the road in any country....   especially Thailand. 

 

 

While in Western countries there are laws and regulations protecting the pedestrian... Being ‘dead-right’ means nothing to your grieving family.....  Look, look, look again, don’t take chances and never assume you’ve been seen - these are the very basics we’ve all been taught, no ?

Edited September 20, 2022 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

17 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Surely, I just made a fair question, as the standard here is ok to judge Thais without evidence and excuse foreigners without any evidence. And it still goes on, as you continue to post.

No... I don’t see that the standard here (on this forum) is to ‘judge Thai’s without evidence and excuse foreigners without any evidence’....  there are ‘some’ posters who are like that, but the vast majority are not and base their comments on experience and individual merit of the situation... 

 

We can of course only highlight the ‘imbalanced comments’ to support our confirmation bias which is perhaps how you have drawn your opinion that is the ’standard to judge Thai’s and excuse foreigners’ which is certainly not the case...  on this forum foreigners be damned as much as Thai’s - it just depends on the individual event. 

 

As we can see here in this thread alone - there is a lot of attention being placed on the ‘level of attention the Swedish guy applied when crossing a major road’.... 

 

 

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

Says reckless driving, no mention of estimated speed.

 

Just to clarify, once dead its too late.

 

Better to be safe than dead. Wait 2 mins to cross road. Take a tuk tuk. Triple check if walk.

 

Any fines are no value to deceased.

 

That's a different point you've made.

 

Of course you have to watch out for yourself, as you can't argue a case from a morgue. I watched the video and it was dangerous driving- so fast, so reckless.

 

But some people. perhaps you're one of them, believe that if a pedestrian also makes a mistake then it's 50/50.  It's not- it's absolutely not. If a motorist speeds he/she is always at fault.

[richard_smith237]

46 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

It’s only September but you have already been awarded “Victim Blaming” comment of the year.

 

You have made 19 comments on this thread to date, and not a single word of condolence or empathy for a man that has just lost his life; just blaming him for being hit by a very fast car that appears to shown no signs of braking in the video.

 

Well done fella, award is in the post

I think his comments are fair.... accusing Spark of victim blaming is unfair, the victim was clearly responsible for stepping out in front of an oncoming car. 

 

The deceased is surely to blame for his part in his demise - he crossed a major road in front of an on coming car because he wasn’t paying full attention. 

He may not have been paying full attention due to being intoxicated (possibly, but looks likely from the vid). 

 

The Car was also approaching very quickly, far more quickly than the other traffic. 

 

The field of view in the video is too small to see if the car showed any signs of braking or not, the car was going too fast, its impossible to see if the ‘front dipped etc’ due to breaking etc. 

 

Its possible the car driver saw the guy waiting in the middle of the road to pass... as is very normal in Thailand, drivers will take almost any other form of action before applying the brakes, drivers just do not want to brake until absolutely forced to... So, its entirely feasible that the car drive saw the man in the central lane waiting to cross and instead of stopping, he counted on and never expected the pedestrian to step out in-front of him by which time it was tragically too late. 

 

The video shows the car was travelling a lot faster than all the other vehicles.

The video shows the pedestrian appears intoxicated. 

The video shows the pedestrian crossing the road, looking once, waiting for a passing vehicle, then stepping walking across the middle and right most lane without looking again. 

 

As Khun LA wrote - a perfect storm: Speeding car, inattentive pedestrian. 

 

 

An fully avoidable accident IF the pedestrian was paying full attention. 

But, if the car was travelling at 50kmh (within a speed limit etc) would the pedestrian still have stepped out in front of it and would the driver be able to stop in time ???

 

 

 

[2009]

2 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

See it in all big towns and cities.

Yeah, but in most places the ego allows oneself to use the break pedal.

[mommysboy]

39 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

After seeing my friend 18yo die I view roads as dangerous places. Im a super safe driver. I walk safely.

 

Any other approach is wrong. You dont have the right to risk the lives of others. A bad walker could kill a baby in a car.

 

Everybody on a road needs to take care not just drivers.

 

Just because some drivers are foolish doesnt make it ok for walkers  to do whatever.

Legally, I'm pretty sure there is a far greater onus  on the driver to observe traffic laws, as well as drive with due care and attention. If he/she hurtles in to a pedestrian at high speed there are questions to be answered. Why is it that way? Perhaps because the driver is the one in charge of a moving ton of metal (or whatever it weighs). 

[hotchilli]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

A Swedish pedestrian has died after he was hit by a car while crossing a road in Phang Nga.

Hit by a car doing about Mach II

[mommysboy]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I think his comments are fair.... accusing Spark of victim blaming is unfair, the victim was clearly responsible for stepping out in front of an oncoming car. 

 

The deceased is surely to blame for his part in his demise - he crossed a major road in front of an on coming car because he wasn’t paying full attention. 

He may not have been paying full attention due to being intoxicated (possibly, but looks likely from the vid). 

 

The Car was also approaching very quickly, far more quickly than the other traffic. 

 

The field of view in the video is too small to see if the car showed any signs of braking or not, the car was going too fast, its impossible to see if the ‘front dipped etc’ due to breaking etc. 

 

Its possible the car driver saw the guy waiting in the middle of the road to pass... as is very normal in Thailand, drivers will take almost any other form of action before applying the brakes, drivers just do not want to brake until absolutely forced to... So, its entirely feasible that the car drive saw the man in the central lane waiting to cross and instead of stopping, he counted on and never expected the pedestrian to step out in-front of him by which time it was tragically too late. 

 

The video shows the car was travelling a lot faster than all the other vehicles.

The video shows the pedestrian appears intoxicated. 

The video shows the pedestrian crossing the road, looking once, waiting for a passing vehicle, then stepping walking across the middle and right most lane without looking again. 

 

As Khun LA wrote - a perfect storm: Speeding car, inattentive pedestrian. 

 

 

An fully avoidable accident IF the pedestrian was paying full attention. 

But, if the car was travelling at 50kmh (within a speed limit etc) would the pedestrian still have stepped out in front of it and would the driver be able to stop in time ???

 

 

 

Your postings are normally so good/rational/right.  What happened? Did you wake up and put on somebody elses' head this morning. 

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

But some people. perhaps you're one of them, believe that if a pedestrian also makes a mistake then it's 50/50.  It's not- it's absolutely not. If a motorist speeds he/she is always at fault.

IF you’re going to step out into a road without paying full attention, it doesn’t really matter what speed the traffic is doing if you get hit....  A lack of self preservation cannot be blamed on the driver. 

 

In such events there is dual complicity. The idea that a pedestrian can simply walk out into the road and all responsibility be placed on the driver is flawed.

 

This is not the case on the UK’s motorways and dual carriage was. But it is in the towns and cities. 

 

One other facet of this issue not yet discussed is the road design....  A Fast 6 lane highway passing through an area where pedestrians are likely - Thailands roads are terribly designed from a safety perspective - this is the outcome. 

 

Thus: contributing factos: 

- Speeding car

- Poor road design (fast road through area with shop houses and perhaps bars / restaurants)

- Inattentive (intoxicated?) pedestrian

- No pedestrian bridge nearby ???

 

 

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

Im proud of my comments.

Did you have your empathy bypass at a private hospital, or are the Government hospitals now offering this procedure ?

[Gottfrid]

42 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

No... I don’t see that the standard here (on this forum) is to ‘judge Thai’s without evidence and excuse foreigners without any evidence’....

There is a saying. They say that blindness comes with age. I don´t know, maybe that is not the case here.

[mommysboy]

17 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

IF you’re going to step out into a road without paying full attention, it doesn’t really matter what speed the traffic is doing if you get hit....  A lack of self preservation cannot be blamed on the driver. 

 

In such events there is dual complicity. The idea that a pedestrian can simply walk out into the road and all responsibility be placed on the driver is flawed.

 

This is not the case on the UK’s motorways and dual carriage was. But it is in the towns and cities. 

 

One other facet of this issue not yet discussed is the road design....  A Fast 6 lane highway passing through an area where pedestrians are likely - Thailands roads are terribly designed from a safety perspective - this is the outcome. 

 

Thus: contributing factos: 

- Speeding car

- Poor road design (fast road through area with shop houses and perhaps bars / restaurants)

- Inattentive (intoxicated?) pedestrian

- No pedestrian bridge nearby ???

 

 

 

It's always up to the driver to observe speed traffic laws and drive with due care and attention.  Both are an automatic 'red card'.  Even the police in an emergency are subject to such laws.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It's always up to the driver to observe speed traffic laws and drive with due care and attention.  Both are an automatic 'red card'.  Even the police in an emergency are subject to such laws.

 

 

So, its ok to walk out into traffic and expect or trust that the oncoming vehicle has 1) seen you and 2) will stop for you ????

 

A rigid, naive and wholly dangerous view point, one which ignores the practical realties of life. 

 

You can’t argue your ‘laws’ from a hospital bed or the morgue. 

 

[KhunLA]

29 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It's always up to the driver to observe speed traffic laws and drive with due care and attention.  Both are an automatic 'red card'.  Even the police in an emergency are subject to such laws.

 

 

Just think if the Swede wasn't J-walking .... then the driver wouldn't had to worry about anything.

 

Maybe the driver was expecting people to observe the law.   Both seem to have failed on that account.

 

I know we're not supposed to victim blame, but when I cross the street, I look both ways, 2 or 3 times, then don't take my eyes off of the oncoming traffic lanes until on safe ground.

Edited September 20, 2022 by KhunLA

[mommysboy]

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

So, its ok to walk out into traffic and expect or trust that the oncoming vehicle has 1) seen you and 2) will stop for you ????

 

A rigid, naive and wholly dangerous view point, one which ignores the practical realties of life. 

 

You can’t argue your ‘laws’ from a hospital bed or the morgue. 

 

 

 

I don't know how the point can be made any clearer: the driver is 100% at fault. 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

I don't know how the point can be made any clearer: the driver is 100% at fault. 

 

In this situation, you would of course be ‘dead-right’.... 

 

I don’t think how that point could be made any clearer !!!....  

 

[mommysboy]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Just think if the Swede wasn't J-walking .... then the driver wouldn't had to worry about anything.

 

Maybe the driver was expecting people to observe the law.   Both seem to have failed on that account.

 

I know we're not supposed to victim blame, but when I cross the street, I look both ways, 2 or 3 times, then don't take my eyes off of the oncoming traffic lanes until on safe ground.

It's very evident from the video that this was an appalling piece of driving at high speed imo.

 

A driver must be able to stop his/her vehicle within a reasonable distance/time frame, and must be in control of his vehicle at all times with regard to the road conditions and speed laws. What's more it is hardly the case that the victim suddenly appeared in the road, like a poltergeist.  And the accident appeared to occur a short distance from a signalled intersection!

 

You seem to be arguing the case that under certain circumstances, perhaps the pedestrians intoxication, disability, age, or whatever, it is ok for a car driver to plough through them, which is what happened here, didn't it?

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

In this situation, you would of course be ‘dead-right’.... 

 

I don’t think how that point could be made any clearer !!!....  

 

Yes 'dead right' for the pedestrian who paid with his life for his stupidity.

 

And as long as you agree that the driver is 100% at fault then we could leave it at that. Mind you, could you PM me next time you go out in the car, so I can hide behind my sofa?????

 

 

[brianthainess]

4 hours ago, loong said:

Warning: Don't watch if you don't like horrific videos.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=545782040639288

The driver was definitely speeding and not paying attention.

I would never attempt to cross that road, when there are traffic lights just up the road, where you might stand a chance.

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Yes 'dead right' for the pedestrian who paid with his life for his stupidity.

 

And as long as you agree that the driver is 100% at fault then we could leave it at that. Mind you, could you PM me next time you go out in the car, so I can hide behind my sofa?????

I think you are better off hiding behind the sofa full stop...  

 

It’s a dangerous world out there, more so if you want to push accountability and responsibility on everyone else.... .

 

IF you step out into a road without looking properly - you are responsible and to be blamed for your own carelessness. 

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Yes 'dead right' for the pedestrian who paid with his life for his stupidity.

 

And as long as you agree that the driver is 100% at fault then we could leave it at that. Mind you, could you PM me next time you go out in the car, so I can hide behind my sofa?????

 

 

Driver is only 100% at fault IF proven to be speeding.

 

IF a pedestrian steps out in-front of a car which is not speeding, the pedestrian is also complicit and at fault for their actions. 

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

Driver is only 100% at fault IF proven to be speeding.

 

IF a pedestrian steps out in-front of a car which is not speeding, the pedestrian is also complicit and at fault for their actions. 

He didn't just step out.  Yes, if say he made a sudden dash across the road just metres before, or say jumped from the middle verge in to the third lane then there would be some mitigation provided the driver was not breaking any road law.  But that didn't happen did it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

[richard_smith237]

18 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It's very evident from the video that this was an appalling piece of driving at high speed imo.

Both an appalling piece of driving and an appalling piece of ‘road crossing’.... 

 

18 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

A driver must be able to stop his/her vehicle within a reasonable distance/time frame, and must be in control of his vehicle at all times with regard to the road conditions and speed laws.

IF a driver is within the speed limit and someone steps out... its impossible to stop...

 

In this case, yes, it's appalling driving - but thats the way people drive here. They don’t want to stop. 

The pedestrian stepped up to the road and waited for the first car to pass. 

He then continued across the road without looking. 

 

18 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

What's more it is hardly the case that the victim suddenly appeared in the road, like a poltergeist.  And the accident appeared to occur a short distance from a signalled intersection!

The victim ??...  your bias is highlighted. 

 

I suspect the oncoming driver anticipated or guessed (wrongly) that the pedestrian was ‘road-smart’ and would wait for the car to pass instead of stepping out in-front of the car into the right most lane. 

 

18 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

You seem to be arguing the case that under certain circumstances, perhaps the pedestrians intoxication, disability, age, or whatever, it is ok for a car driver to plough through them,

No....  you have applied a strawman fallacy to the discussion in a flawed attempt to strengthen your argument. 

 

When an adult pedestrian steps out into the road with inattention, for whatever reason (intoxication, inattention, using the phone etc) they are complicit in the consequences. 

 

With children its different, the adult supervising them is complicit in the consequences. 

IF there is no adult supervising them, the adult (or primary care-giver responsible for that child at that time) is still complicit for not supervising them.

 

With disability, it depends if that disabled person requires assistance etc.

if a disabled person is self mobile, they are responsible for their own actions. IF they move out into flowing traffic and get hit by a car, they are responsible for the consequences. 

 

The responsibility exists on both a moral and legal basis and is not always as absolute and as black and white, right vs wrong as you naively want to suggest. 

 

18 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

which is what happened here, didn't it?

Having lived here for a long time - I ’suspect’ that the on coming driver saw the pedestrian. 

Just like the vast majority of drivers on Thai roads, they stop only as a last resort. 

On a fast flowing road like this, not stopping is the norm, instead the norm is for a pedestrian to wait for the car to pass then walk across, rather that the car stopping for the pedestrian - this is just the way it is here, regardless of ‘right vs wrong’ and legalities. 

 

I suspect the driver saw the person on the middle lane and expect them to wait for them (the car) to pass, it was too late when the pedestrian stepped out / continued walking. 

 

- A tragic, terrible and deadly moment of judgement by the car drier - but one which followed the road-norms here in Thailand. 

- A tragic, terrible and deadly moment of inattention by the pedestrian - one which doesn’t follow the norm here for people crossing a road. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eaglekott]

RIP.

 

When I look at the CCTV video it look like the car that hit him was driving about double the speed than the first car the Swedish man waited for to pass. Does not seams like he was trying to break at all also.

[JeffersLos]

What on Earth was he doing?

 

1. crossing there.

 

2. crossing so slowly.

 

Suicide?