Who has retired to other Asian countries?

[FarAngMoh]

3 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

My friend tells me the retirement visa is the easiest anywhere, more so than Thailand.

Third largest island in the world.

The island of Borneo (Kalimantan) is divided between Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei.
 

Indonesia has a retirement program for 55 and up, but it’s a lot of paperwork; I wouldn’t call it easy. Indonesia taxes your worldwide income once you stay beyond 6 months and become a tax resident, so it’s not easy in that sense either.

 

An argument could be made for the Malaysian (Northern) part of the island, and specifically the state of Sarawak because they still have the old MM2H program with the lower financial requirements. You can now even work in Sarawak with this visa (a rule change they made recently). So maybe that is what your friend is talking about. It’s almost like a poor man’s LTR. But let’s be honest, the Philippines is still easier. 
 

Brunei only occupies a tiny fraction of the island — it is an oil rich but highly conservative Muslim state. If you lived on the island, about the only reason you’d go there is to visit your embassy. 

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

Goto the most expensive place you can afford would be good advice ????

I try to live cheap and simple most days, therefor Thailand is a great place, and keep my backdoor open just in case. You never know whats going to hit you sooner or later. 

 

[spidermike007]

8 hours ago, scorecard said:

So to avoid all these 'items', perhaps an uninhabited desert island?

Cool concept. Except in the PI, they are so difficult to get to you would need a private helicopter or yacht to get there! 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Cool concept. Except in the PI, they are so difficult to get to you would need a private helicopter or yacht to get there! 

Well if you can afford to buy an island you can afford to buy a helicopter.

Or perhaps a rowboat would suffice. 

But what about the regular big hurricanes?

Edited October 18, 2022 by scorecard

[earlinclaifornia]

On 10/17/2022 at 11:46 PM, FarAngMoh said:

The island of Borneo (Kalimantan) is divided between Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei.
 

Indonesia has a retirement program for 55 and up, but it’s a lot of paperwork; I wouldn’t call it easy. Indonesia taxes your worldwide income once you stay beyond 6 months and become a tax resident, so it’s not easy in that sense either.

 

An argument could be made for the Malaysian (Northern) part of the island, and specifically the state of Sarawak because they still have the old MM2H program with the lower financial requirements. You can now even work in Sarawak with this visa (a rule change they made recently). So maybe that is what your friend is talking about. It’s almost like a poor man’s LTR. But let’s be honest, the Philippines is still easier. 
 

Brunei only occupies a tiny fraction of the island — it is an oil rich but highly conservative Muslim state. If you lived on the island, about the only reason you’d go there is to visit your embassy. 

Yes she was from Sarawak and sounds  like what she  meant. Thanks for qualifying details.

[georgegeorgia]

Philippines is a yes & no place for retirement.

It depends on where & what you need close.

 

I'm looking more Palawan or Dumaguete, I couldn't fathom living in Angeles City , I went there last July , unfriendly people.too much traffic ..hotter than hot , junkies everywhere 

[Mickeymaus]

I lived in the Philippines for 4 years about 25 years ago. I still have bank accounts there. I lived on the island of Boracay for a year. One of my best years in my life. The world was just this island. Sadly today Boracay is not the same anymore. I have tried it a couple of years ago again. I have stayed in many other places - Cebu, Manila, Angeles, Olongapo and many more.

 

The food I didn't like. The people - you can talk to pretty much anyone in English. And they can talk to you too, which isn't always an advantage. I lived much more integrated than here in Thailand. You're more one of them with all the disadvantages...

Nature is great. Nicer than here in Thailand and not so busy with tourists. The touristic infrastructure is often simple. So be prepared to stay in old hotels used by the US army and travel with the locals - along with chicken or whatever on the public transport system. Jeepneys are terrible. The Pattaya Baht buses, on the other hand, are a luxury.

Earthquakes - I experienced a bigger one there. Wasn't fun and the worst part was afterwards waiting for aftershocks.

I could tell you a lot more. But why did I end up in Thailand? It was the much better infrastructure for foreigners. Of course - somehow I live here like in a ghetto. It's not an integrated life like it used to be in the Philippines. But it's easier when you can live alone and with more distance. But I miss the great nature of the Philippines. They could be the main tourist destination in South East Asia. But they have to create the infrastructure for this. 

[FarAngMoh]

I have followed several expat YouTubers from the Philippines for last 5-6 years, but haven’t been there in person since 2003. Having lived in Southeast Asia since 1996, I enjoyed taking a break from Asian food — the Philippines has the most authentic Western food (for the price) compared to anywhere in Asia. The only local food I found to my liking was chicken cordon bleu… an adapted/adopted local dish and a wonderful one at that.
 

I used to fly into Manila at night and it seriously reminded me of Blade Runner. After just a few days I was blowing black stuff out of my nose. I did manage to visit Puerto Gelara with some friends and stayed on White Beach - very rustic. I also visited Cebu, stayed on Mactan, took the fast ferry to Tagbilaran and went to Panglao, did some snorkeling off Alona Beach. Good times. But it wasn’t without some craziness too. 

[georgegeorgia]

I checked out Cebu & Mactan island a few months ago ready for my retirement, but not to my liking, too busy , overcrowded traffic etc 

 

I need somewhere like a nice island but with the amenities 

[FarAngMoh]

On 10/20/2022 at 4:04 AM, georgegeorgia said:

I checked out Cebu & Mactan island a few months ago ready for my retirement, but not to my liking, too busy , overcrowded traffic etc 

 

I need somewhere like a nice island but with the amenities 

If you want quiet/suburban living, try Subic Bay Freeport Zone, well connected to Angeles City and Manila via expressway.
 

If you want simple/rural living, try Valencia near Dumaguete. It’s just a bit of a pain to get there from Cebu.

[Lacessit]

I only considered the places I had worked in when I decided to retire to Asia. Japan, Indonesia, Malaysia, and Thailand. I researched them all for 6 months before making a decision. I have since traveled to Myanmar, Hong Kong, Laos and Vietnam.

I chose Thailand, and have no regrets about my choice. It still ticks more boxes than any of the other places I have been.

[GammaGlobulin]

On 10/16/2022 at 12:50 PM, Kwasaki said:

Looked all over Europe and Asia went with the guts which felt good in Thailand but anyone wherever you lay your hat should always have a plan 'B'. 

If not Thailand, then what about Nara, Japan? 

 

It's super quiet there. 

No pollution. 

Decent hospitals. 

Plenty of spruce trees. 

Tea ceremony once per year. 

 

Plan B, for me. 

[Phnom Penh Trader]

I lived in Talamban,Cebu for two years and it was absolutely wonderful.The Filipinos are super friendly it is East meets West having been an American colony.

The islands of the Central Visayas are truly beautiful like Bohol,Bantayan,Malapascua,Camotes etc.

I spent a month on Bantayan just before Christmas and flying home,Santa Fe Beach is a beautiful white powder sand beach,you walk fifty metres into the sea and are neck deep in water like a warm bath it is an absolute paradise!

Like stepping back in time with a few decent Western style restaurants,no guns or violence people claiming that have obviously never visited anywhere outside of the big cities in the Philippines.

Violence against tourists is non-existent unlike Thailand where it regularly happens,the Filipinos even cite it as a reason to visit and avoid Thailand.

 

[daveAustin]

On 10/17/2022 at 7:04 PM, dddave said:

There was a prolific poster on "Thai-Visa" who moved to Siem Reap maybe 4 years ago.  Posted several reports after the move but haven't seen any since.  I don't recall his board name.

Wasn’t it Victor summat or other; Russian dude?

[lopburi3]

7 minutes ago, Phnom Penh Trader said:

I lived in Talamban,Cebu for two years and it was absolutely wonderful.The Filipinos are super friendly it is East meets West having been an American colony.

The islands of the Central Visayas are truly beautiful like Bohol,Bantayan,Malapascua,Camotes etc.

I spent a month on Bantayan just before Christmas and flying home,Santa Fe Beach is a beautiful white powder sand beach,you walk fifty metres into the sea and are neck deep in water like a warm bath it is an absolute paradise!

Like stepping back in time with a few decent Western style restaurants,no guns or violence people claiming that have obviously never visited anywhere outside of the big cities in the Philippines.

Violence against tourists is non-existent unlike Thailand where it regularly happens,the Filipinos even cite it as a reason to visit and avoid Thailand.

 

Although I like PI and the people (lived 4 years there) it is definitely not for many who call Thailand home (although some beach lovers could be an exception). 

 

You like not having reliable electric power.

You like street dogs.

You like rooster calls.

You like music at 98DB everywhere all the time.

You like ATM's that are out of service.

You like having to bargain for everything.

You like almost inedible food.

You like 2nd class accommodations.

You like being unable to walk except in street.

You do not see the violence that happens.

You like never being able to find what you want.

You like bureaucracy on steroids.

You like having only basic medical care.

You like waiting.

You like waiting.

You like waiting.

 

 

 

[dddave]

36 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

Wasn’t it Victor summat or other; Russian dude?

I never knew anything other than his board name and I don't recall what that was.

[Phnom Penh Trader]

34 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Although I like PI and the people (lived 4 years there) it is definitely not for many who call Thailand home (although some beach lovers could be an exception). 

 

You like not having reliable electric power.

You like street dogs.

You like rooster calls.

You like music at 98DB everywhere all the time.

You like ATM's that are out of service.

You like having to bargain for everything.

You like almost inedible food.

You like 2nd class accommodations.

You like being unable to walk except in street.

You do not see the violence that happens.

You like never being able to find what you want.

You like bureaucracy on steroids.

You like having only basic medical care.

You like waiting.

You like waiting.

You like waiting.

 

 

 

Hilarious what sort of a filth infested backwater did you actually live in over there?

Talamban where I lived is the best area and my house was 5 or 6 bedrooms I forget,owned by the head of the law society in Cebu.

 

Power was reliable 

NO street dogs

NO roosters whatsoever 

NO loud music except in the nightclubs like Mango Square and BTC/Banilad Town Centre

NO bargaining for anything just regular shops and supermarkets Mall of Asia in Manila was the biggest one in all of South-East Asia at one point

Food was fantastic at Ayala Mall in Cebu every type of Western food you could possibly think of

My South American buddies teaching Spanish to the locals at CIS/Cebu International School used to call my house the US Embassy it was so big so no 2nd class accommodation for me

You can walk anywhere you like in both Cebu and Mactan/Lapu Lapu Islands

NO violence anywhere in two years that I or anyone else saw in Cebu it is very safe and much more laid back than mega-city Manila

i found everything and anything that I wanted the Filipinos cannot help you enough unlike the Thais default setting of “Mai Mii/No Have”

NO problems with bureaucracy the visas were easy to renew every two months for tourist visas no point in bothering with any other type 

NO medical care needed so no idea about that

NO waiting

NO waiting

NO waiting

 

Seriously where did you live in a hut made from palm fronds on a rubbish dump or something?

 

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

On 10/15/2022 at 11:46 PM, Denim said:

 

Been there a few times for work, not a place I'd ever consider to live.

[EVENKEEL]

On 10/19/2022 at 1:04 PM, georgegeorgia said:

I checked out Cebu & Mactan island a few months ago ready for my retirement, but not to my liking, too busy , overcrowded traffic etc 

 

I need somewhere like a nice island but with the amenities 

No where is perfect, at this rate you'll never pull the trigger. If you can't be happy and content in Thailand then you won't find it anywhere.

[lopburi3]

32 minutes ago, Phnom Penh Trader said:

Hilarious what sort of a filth infested backwater did you actually live in over there?

Talamban where I lived is the best area and my house was 5 or 6 bedrooms I forget,owned by the head of the law society in Cebu.

 

Power was reliable 

NO street dogs

NO roosters whatsoever 

NO loud music except in the nightclubs like Mango Square and BTC/Banilad Town Centre

NO bargaining for anything just regular shops and supermarkets Mall of Asia in Manila was the biggest one in all of South-East Asia at one point

Food was fantastic at Ayala Mall in Cebu every type of Western food you could possibly think of

My South American buddies teaching Spanish to the locals at CIS/Cebu International School used to call my house the US Embassy it was so big so no 2nd class accommodation for me

You can walk anywhere you like in both Cebu and Mactan/Lapu Lapu Islands

NO violence anywhere in two years that I or anyone else saw in Cebu it is very safe and much more laid back than mega-city Manila

i found everything and anything that I wanted the Filipinos cannot help you enough unlike the Thais default setting of “Mai Mii/No Have”

NO problems with bureaucracy the visas were easy to renew every two months for tourist visas no point in bothering with any other type 

NO medical care needed so no idea about that

NO waiting

NO waiting

NO waiting

 

Seriously where did you live in a hut made from palm fronds on a rubbish dump or something?

 

 

 

Nice personal attack - I stand by what I wrote and believe most in PI these days will agree.  Yes visa situation is easy in PI and I have mentioned that in other posts.

[Phnom Penh Trader]

1 minute ago, lopburi3 said:

Nice personal attack - I stand by what I wrote and believe most in PI these days will agree.  Yes visa situation is easy in PI and I have mentioned that in other posts.

Not a personal attack at all I have genuinely never met anyone in the Philippines living under those conditions,to the point that I honestly believe you made the whole thing up to discredit the wonderful Philippines Islands maybe time to fess up now?

[steven100]

the food turns me off ....   i'm not fond of boiled fish heads. 

[sqwakvfr]

A long term visa for retirement purpose is difficult to obtain or nonexistent in many Asian countries.  Thailand's greatest attractions have been low cost and many visa options.

 

1.  Singapore, and S Korea offer long term visas to foreigners.  You just have to invest or purchase a condo worth least $500,000.  

2. Malaysia and Bali both long term Visa's but the financial qualifiers are very high.

3. The PI has some long term Visa options but I can't seem to make "heads or tails" about the requirements.  I'm not even sure if the SRRV program is available now?

 

Of course one can get a Tourist Visa to some ASEAN countries and do the "Visa Run" program.  

 

Thailand is not perfect but it works for myself and many others.  I would love to stay in S. Korea formany years but I just can't seem find the $500,000 in any of my accounts.  

 

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

5 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

3. The PI has some long term Visa options but I can't seem to make "heads or tails" about the requirements.  I'm not even sure if the SRRV program is available now?

For US military and foreign diplomats who have worked in PI the retirement option is very good (and also available to others with bank deposit) but as with most things best to use a service to get details right.  That said the vast majority just extend tourist visas (up to 3 years then a day out to restart).

[GammaGlobulin]

Has anyone here, as a logical Plan B, ever considered spending your final retirement days on Myakojima, Okinawa, Japan? 

 

Myakojima is one of the last string of islands hanging down from the main island of Okinawa. 

 

The infrastructure is solid. You will never lose your internet connection, even during a super typhoon. 

 

I have visited the island several times. 

 

One major plus is that if you retire there, and eat what the locals eat, and live like the locals live, then you might extend your life by ten years, or more, and not die until you are one hundred and four. 

 

This island is extremely remote. 

 

The culture there is super, sort of the antithesis in comparison to the barbarians you find on the island of Guam, but the same natural beauty of sand and mangroves. 

 

If you go there to live, you will need to take your Thai GF with you, just because the native girls on the island of Myakojima are rather dumpy, short and squat. 

 

This island is an excellent place for dedicated cyclists and artists and novelists. 

 

So, if you want to add 10 years to your life, then go to Myakojima. 

 

On a clear day, you can see the highest mountains of easternmost Taiwan. 

 

Most people on Myakojima drink awamori juice. This is a slightly strong alcoholic beverage with hot chili peppers soaking, like the worm in tequila. 

 

There are very few farang on Myakojima, but it's easy to buy guava fruit, in season. 

 

Such a beautiful, unspoiled, fantastic paradise, is Myakojima. 

 

A true paradise if ever there were one in this imperfect world of ours. 

 

You might get lonely there, unless you are like me. Nothing but sugarcane, as far as the eye can see. 

 

Check it out. 

 

This island might be right for you. 

 

[sqwakvfr]

19 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

For US military and foreign diplomats who have worked in PI the retirement option is very good (and also available to others with bank deposit) but as with most things best to use a service to get details right.  That said the vast majority just extend tourist visas (up to 3 years then a day out to restart).

Wow. 3 years of extending Tourist Visa's. I will pass. 

[sqwakvfr]

15 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Has anyone here, as a logical Plan B, ever considered spending your final retirement days on Myakojima, Okinawa, Japan? 

 

Myakojima is one of the last string of islands hanging down from the main island of Okinawa. 

 

The infrastructure is solid. You will never lose your internet connection, even during a super typhoon. 

 

I have visited the island several times. 

 

One major plus is that if you retire there, and eat what the locals eat, and live like the locals live, then you might extend your life by ten years, or more, and not die until you are one hundred and four. 

 

This island is extremely remote. 

 

The culture there is super, sort of the antithesis in comparison to the barbarians you find on the island of Guam, but the same natural beauty of sand and mangroves. 

 

If you go there to live, you will need to take your Thai GF with you, just because the native girls on the island of Myakojima are rather dumpy, short and squat. 

 

This island is an excellent place for dedicated cyclists and artists and novelists. 

 

So, if you want to add 10 years to your life, then go to Myakojima. 

 

On a clear day, you can see the highest mountains of easternmost Taiwan. 

 

Most people on Myakojima drink awamori juice. This is a slightly strong alcoholic beverage with hot chili peppers soaking, like the worm in tequila. 

 

There are very few farang on Myakojima, but it's easy to buy guava fruit, in season. 

 

Such a beautiful, unspoiled, fantastic paradise, is Myakojima. 

 

A true paradise if ever there were one in this imperfect world of ours. 

 

You might get lonely there, unless you are like me. Nothing but sugarcane, as far as the eye can see. 

 

Check it out. 

 

This island might be right for you. 

 

What kind of Visa is available? 

[lopburi3]

6 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Wow. 3 years of extending Tourist Visa's. I will pass. 

This is easy to do at any immigration office and can be up to six months stay before needing new stamp.  But there is also a requirement to obtain permission to depart for anyone staying long term - easy enough but awkward if you forget. 

[scorecard]

On 10/19/2022 at 1:10 PM, earlinclaifornia said:

Yes she was from Sarawak and sounds  like what she  meant. Thanks for qualifying details.

Philippines may be easier but there's other negatives. A lot of violence, many folks carrying handguns 24/7, muggings, abject poverty, regular typhoons and landslides. A positive is of course that many folks speak some to advanced English.

[spidermike007]

From what I hear from my friends who live there, the threshold for taking care of a PI gal is far lower than here, and so are their expectations. There is nothing inexpensive about caring for a Thai woman! I speak from experience!

In terms of beauty, I find both have stunning women. But, the primary issue for me, if I was single, would be the actual quality of life there. From my point of view:

Philippines
Pros-
1. The women can be lovely. And many of them speak english. And if you are older guy, that is a plus in the PI. Plus they are way less demanding, and the bar is set much lower, in terms of their expectations. Older guys can get with far younger women, without an issue. The parents actually encourage it! Generally, it is possible to have a real conversation with many women there. Not the case here. It is rare here. Unlike most Thai women, the women there can have a real sense of curiousity, and will ask genuine questions about you, and your life, beyond where do you come from, how much do you earn, and what do you own? The PI seems to have a higher level of intellectual development.

2.  The visa system is something that some think is simpler. You do need to have money on deposit, and unlike Thailand it remains on deposit the entire time you live there. A minimum of $20,000 for the SRRV Smile visa, unless that has changed.

3. The place has thousands of islands, and some stunning beaches, and cleaner water than Thailand, at least on the Gulf Coast. But, the islands are fairly hard to get to, and the services are very limited, and more expensive than in Thailand.

4. In general I would say the people can be quite friendly. Especially the women. But, unlike Thailand, even the men can be friendly. I suspect if I lived there, I would have a number of local male friends, unlike here. I have never met a society of men, who are less interested, less curious about, and less willing to get to know foreigners, than I have here in Thailand. It is sometimes astonishing. It is a real disappointment.5. The place is more Westernized. You do not feel like you are living on another planet, which can be nice sometimes. Some shopping can be better, as there are Costco type outlets there. Some of the highways are better, and as an American, I can have goods shipped to me, with a preferred system, that allows low cost shipping, and duty free imports. Unheard of in Thailand. Importation of goods in Thailand can be horrendously difficult. It is an onerous system, one that is outdated by decades, in this age of globalization. Thailand is far, far more insular and fearful of the outside world, than the PI.
nomadcapitalist.com/2018/01/15/the-philippines-residency-srrv/

Cons-
1. The entire country is like one big Tijuana. It is depressing. Very little landscaping in the homes, even nice homes are ugly, and have barbed wire, and glass topped walls everywhere you look.

2. The security situation is not very good. You always have to keep your eyes open, keep an eye on your back, and beware of robbery, home theft, and violence. It is rampant. I have many friends who live there, and they all say the same thing.

3. If you do get into an altercation with a Philippine man, or are getting robbed or harassed, unless you are a 6th degree sensei, do not fight back. An astonishing number of locals are well trained in the fighting arts. Many are good with sticks, knives, blades or any sort, and their hands, fists and feet. I have a friend who is a world class security consultant. He is a black belt in a few different martial arts. He says he can usually fight his way out of a gang of men, nearly anywhere in the world. Except in the PI. That is the only country he will NOT take an assignment.
The average guys there, can take down the average Westerner in five seconds. In Thailand few have those kinds of skills. Very few.

4. The food sucks. The only other country I can think of with worse food, is Cuba. Granted, if you are willing to spend the money, you can find good food. But, it is not the general rule, as it is here. Also, the access to fresh fruits and vegetables is pathetic compared to Thailand. Very low quality, and often not fresh. Thailand is a paradise by comparison, when it comes to all things related to food.

5. Pollution. They use a lower grade of diesel. So, there is alot of soot in the air. The PI has an epidemic of lung diseases and respiratory diseases. Even on many of the populated islands. The hospitals are full of people who are having a very hard time breathing. It is a real issue there. Lung disease is at an epidemic level, though the authorities do not like to talk about it, and publish very little information on it.

6. Aesthetics. The average house you would rent, looks like a slum. Tall walls, with barbed wire, to keep out intruders. And they just do not pay attention to landscaping and gardens like the Thai people do. So, most neighborhoods are fabulously ugly. Alot of slums in the big cities, and just not physically appealing.

7. Renting. There is a vastly lower number of rental units available, few are as nice as what you can find in Thailand, and it is almost always more expensive, with the possible exception of Central Bangkok. You just cannot find the studio apartments like the ones available all over Hua Hin, for 6,000 to 8,000 baht a month. That does not exist there.

8. Infrastructure. The entire country lacks the infrastructure you have here in Thailand. As I am typing now, I am enjoying a 180MB download speed, and a 100MB upload speed, all on fiber optic cable, for 800 baht a month. Unheard of in many countries, including the US! Triple the cost there. No sky train network anywhere near comparable to Bangkok. Mo MRT network either. They have one under construction, and it will be limited to ten stations.

Shall I go on? I could. As far as I am concerned, the only reason to live there is the women, and a slightly more cooperative, and far less xenophobic and racist government. Alot of ex-pats are looking to leave Thailand, as the current administration is so far beyond heinous and incompetent, it is unspeakable.

security

I have a friend who does private security for a lot of very high net worth individuals, and corporate CEOs, when they travel, and he told me that the only country in the world that he will not take an assignment is the Philippines. When I asked him why he reminded me that he was at the 6th or 7th degree level in six different martial arts, besides the fact that he was 6'5 and about 280 lbs. of muscle. Spent his whole life training. Not the kind of guy you would want to mess with. He told me under normal circumstances he could incapacitate a group of four or five guys, in under a minute. Not in the PI.

He said that in general, the Philippine men had the greatest degree of fighting skills of any group of people in the world, and that if you encountered a single guy, or a group of Philippine guys on the street you just never knew what their level of skill was, and you had to assume that they were expert street fighters. He said many were experts with knives, sticks and improvised weapons. Not the case here.

If you add on top of that, the fact that the country is extremely poor and that there's a fairly high level of desperation, it makes the Philippines a very, very dangerous place. Crime there is very opportunistic. And being a foreigner makes you a potential target. Again, not the case in Thailand.

You really have to know what you're doing, you really have to know where you're going at all times, especially at night, and you always have to have eyes in the back of your head, and constantly looking over your shoulder. Of course, it varies depending on the city, the part of the city, and the region. But it is just one of many reasons I would not want to live there.

I've been told this by a number of friends who live in the Philippines and it's been my observation, the several times that I have visited.

I like the people. The level of english skills and the women seem to be the big draw for most guys. But random guys in the street, can be a hazard, and that is variable I would want to have to deal with, regularly. 

I consider the PI to be far more of a ghetto experience. But, I am referring to the environment, and I think you are referring to the social aspect. I agree with that. Thais are spectacularly insular, and seem to have little to no curiosity about the outside world. The people in the PI are infinitely more open minded, and far more Western. And the language is a huge plus in the PI. Many speak good english, and I would guess if you were attempting to speak poor Tagalog, the people would try far harder than here, to understand what you are trying to say. Since they are more Westernized, they are likely more creative, linguistically. If you do not have the pronunciation and the tones down perfectly here, the people are completely lost. A total inability to dance around in circles intellectually. And they barely even care to try to understand what you are saying! That is a huge nuisance and annoyance here. 
 
The PI is a foreign country. Thailand is a distant planet.