UK Immigration problem

[FritsSikkink]

If you have a history of conquering half of the planet and are on war missions which displace families, you get refugees.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, DezLez said:

They are NOT legal "migrants" they are "Illegal Migrants" and should not be allowed anywhere near the UK.  BREXIT or no BREXIT! 

If they were legal migrants they would have a visa and enter legally!

As to "‘getting our borders back’ is still a lie."!  Where did I say that?  

I and many on the forum are still waiting, with less and less than baited breath (now) to see if you will ever produce a solution!

(preferably without BREXIT/Labour/Election)

 

Brexit was about controlling legal immigration from the E.U.

Stopping the free flow of migrants coming from the E.U

That has been a success .

Illegal migration was a problem  before Brexit  and it still is .

   Some people are trying to make the suggestion that because illegal immigration still exists , then Brexit was a failure .

   But they are two different separate issues

[DezLez]

35 minutes ago, PeeJayEm said:

it's important to get terminology right in this. Using "asylum seeker" for these elements lazily deprives real asylum seekers who are escaping persecution of their due sympathetic welcome.

I agree!

I also keep posting that these people or not legal migrants who would arrive by scheduled legal transport with a legal visa.

The people crossing the channel in rubber boats are "Illegal migrants" who should be termed criminals avoiding the legal UK immigrant system!

[brewsterbudgen]

Just now, DezLez said:

I agree!

I also keep posting that these people or not legal migrants who would arrive by scheduled legal transport with a legal visa.

The people crossing the channel in rubber boats are "Illegal migrants" who should be termed criminals avoiding the legal UK immigrant system!

Actually, most of them are refugees.

[Bangkok Barry]

I find it fascinating that the Brits could keep Hitler and his troops from crossing the Channel, but can't stop a few small boats of illegals each day. Extraordinary, isn't it.

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Actually, most of them are refugees.

Dont think the Albanians can be classed as  refugees

 

Albanians accounted for nearly four in 10 migrants crossing the Channel over a six-week period this summer, despite the Nato member country being at peace since 1997,

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/08/15/albanian-migrants-exploiting-modern-slavery-law-loophole-record/

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Actually, most of them are refugees.

Escaping  war torn and dangerous  France ?

[DezLez]

28 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Actually, most of them are refugees.

In which case under international law they should seek refuge in the first country they enter after "fleeing"!

 

Here is the info and link;

 

The Dublin Regulation; "migrants are not able to choose the state from which they decided to apply for asylum. The regulation allows to apply for refugee status only from the country in which migrants enter first.  At the same time, if there is a desire to change the country, migrants will have to return to their original point of arrival.

 

Migration and asylum policy of the European Union - Wikipedia

 

 The Albanian criminals are breaking EU laws so BREXIT has nothing to do with it.  

How do the Albanians get to France?  Fly? With a visa?

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by DezLez

[DezLez]

5 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I find it fascinating that the Brits could keep Hitler and his troops from crossing the Channel, but can't stop a few small boats of illegals each day. Extraordinary, isn't it.

They didn't. 

The Germans occupied the Channel islands!

There is also the slight advantage that in WW2 the UK were able to kill invaders on sight and destroy their embarkation points. 

 

The "woke" brigade seem to be against this with illegal migrant invaders for some reason!  ????

[brewsterbudgen]

9 minutes ago, DezLez said:

In which case under international law they should seek refuge in the first country they enter after "fleeing"!

 

Indeed.  Another Brexit bonus!

[brewsterbudgen]

13 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Dont think the Albanians can be classed as  refugees

 

Albanians accounted for nearly four in 10 migrants crossing the Channel over a six-week period this summer, despite the Nato member country being at peace since 1997,

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/08/15/albanian-migrants-exploiting-modern-slavery-law-loophole-record/

I can't read the article as the Torygraph has a paywall.  In any case, I'd take as much notice of what they say as I do the Daily Fail and the other right-wing media.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, bob smith said:

We are all animals, the only thing that separates us from our insect ancestors is consciousness

Speak for yourself!

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Incorrect again

Taking back control of our borders Free movement will end, with our own Parliament deciding our domestic immigration policy in the national interest.  

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/759792/28_November_EU_Exit_-_Taking_back_control_of_our_borders__money_and_laws_while_protecting_our_economy__security_and_Union__1_.pdf

 

Taking back control of our borders was never anything to do with  illegal entry

 

 

“Taking back control of our borders was never anything to do with  illegal entry“

 

Arguably the most illogical statement I’ve read on this forum for a long time.

 

Putting aside the use of photos of non European migrants by the Leave Campaign, of a nation loses control of migrants crossing the border, it does have control of its borders.

 

‘Oh we’ve got control of the borders, except for the over 30,000 people who sneaked in so far this year’

 

[mrfill]

21 minutes ago, DezLez said:

They didn't. 

The Germans occupied the Channel islands!

There is also the slight advantage that in WW2 the UK were able to kill invaders on sight and destroy their embarkation points. 

 

The "woke" brigade seem to be against this with illegal migrant invaders for some reason!  ????

The Channel Islands which is NOT part of the UK.

75% of these people are granted asylum (a vast majority from our bombing practice areas - Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria) and are therefore not illegal.

The 'culture warriors' brigade don't understand this.

Figures are for 2021 as no-one has been processed this year as the officers are only managing 1.65 claims a week (government policy). Claims are taking over 400 days on average.

Also, as prevention is better than cure, tell me how many smuggler gangs have been successfully prosecuted in the last 10 years - some 'earning' up to £300K per boat load? Its like Thailand and its drug problem - pursue the little man and ignore the big fish - the problem remains and grows.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, DezLez said:

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No don’t agree.

 

There has been a near 20 fold increase in cross channel migrants since 2019.

 

The Government that promised to take back control of Britain’s borders has failed to do so.

 

The Government has failed, Braverman has failed, Patel before her failed.

 

It’s idiocy to keep doing something when it has so very clearly failed:

 

8F752AE0-EA76-453D-8364-E034275761E1.webp 44.99 kB · 0 downloads

Expand  

And your instant miracle solution is?

He doesn't have to have a solution to a problem in order to disagree with the woman's opinion, that's her job!

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

so glad i was born when Britain was full of British people

Jesus, what century were you born in if there were no immigrants?

[DezLez]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Arguably the most illogical statement I’ve read on this forum for a long time.

That is amazing coming from you who never answers the questions put to him by obfuscating!

 

What is your solution, assuming that you even have one, to the illegal criminal invaders?

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“Taking back control of our borders was never anything to do with  illegal entry“

 

Arguably the most illogical statement I’ve read on this forum for a long time.

 

Putting aside the use of photos of non European migrants by the Leave Campaign, of a nation loses control of migrants crossing the border, it does have control of its borders.

 

‘Oh we’ve got control of the borders, except for the over 30,000 people who sneaked in so far this year’

 

Doesn't matter what you think  I can see in your posts this view doesn't fit your agenda

If you read the Gov link that I attached in my previous post 

you would have seen illegal migration was covered in the

Thematic issues section.

Finally, managing illegal migration is a global challenge facilitated by organised crime and exploiting vulnerable migrants.

[DezLez]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Chomper is very quick to criticise but offers NO sensible or useful suggestions. He has been on my ignore list for a long time.

Sorry;  

I made yet another similar comment about his lack of usefulness sorry, useful suggestions/proposals/solutions just after your post!

[DezLez]

11 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

He doesn't have to have a solution to a problem in order to disagree with the woman's opinion, that's her job!

You can disagree with an opinion as often as you want in your own mind but if you do so you must have an opinion of your own to disagree with!

 

If so why not state it?

[brewsterbudgen]

12 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Jesus, what century were you born in if there were no immigrants?

And he probably lives in Thailand himself!

[Thingamabob]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No don’t agree.

 

There has been a near 20 fold increase in cross channel migrants since 2019.

 

The Government that promised to take back control of Britain’s borders has failed to do so.

 

The Government has failed, Braverman has failed, Patel before her failed.

 

It’s idiocy to keep doing something when it has so very clearly failed:

 

8F752AE0-EA76-453D-8364-E034275761E1.webp 44.99 kB · 10 downloads

Why do you say Braverman has failed ? She's only just been appointed.  

[Mac Mickmanus]

20 minutes ago, mrfill said:

The Channel Islands which is NOT part of the UK.

75% of these people are granted asylum (a vast majority from our bombing practice areas - Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria) and are therefore not illegal.

The 'culture warriors' brigade don't understand this.

Figures are for 2021 as no-one has been processed this year as the officers are only managing 1.65 claims a week (government policy). Claims are taking over 400 days on average.

Also, as prevention is better than cure, tell me how many smuggler gangs have been successfully prosecuted in the last 10 years - some 'earning' up to £300K per boat load? Its like Thailand and its drug problem - pursue the little man and ignore the big fish - the problem remains and grows.

Quite a lot , here's a few examples 

 

Dozens of people suspected of being part of a criminal network that helped send up to 10,000 people to the UK in small boats have been arrested in a Europe-wide crackdown.

The group charged around €3,500 (£3,000) for a place on a dinghy, often packing up to 60 people aboard as they were sent on the perilous journey across the Channel from France.

 

On Tuesday, dozens of arrests were made in what international law enforcement believe is the biggest global crackdown on gangs involved in people smuggling across the Dover Strait.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/dozens-arrested-in-europe-wide-crack-down-on-english-channel-people-smuggling-gangs-12646750

 

 

 

A gang leader who boasted of smuggling dozens of women into the UK using HGVs and small boats has been jailed for 10 years.

In covertly obtained recordings by National Crime Agency investigators, Nzar Jabar Mohamad, from Hull, was heard telling criminal associates in Europe that “I brought too many women, I swear to God I can say I brought more than a hundred over.”

But 33-year-old Mohamad, who also used the name Nazar Masefi, was arrested by NCA officers while in the process of arranging an attempt to smuggle up to 21 people across the channel on a small boat in November 2019.

 

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/news/gang-leader-who-bragged-of-smuggling-more-than-100-women-into-uk-jailed-for-10-years

[billd766]

5 hours ago, bob smith said:

Borders don't exist. They are figment of the Hominoid's imagination. A pseudo social science experiment, nothing more. Did dinosaurs have passports? Will the cockroaches and beetles require a VISA to cross over an imaginary line after humans have wiped themselves out?

 

No, they will move from place to place freely in search of food, shelter and a better life for their babies. It's no different from what human migrants are doing now and have done for thousands of years. We are all animals, the only thing that separates us from our insect ancestors is consciousness, a tragic misstep in evolution IMO.

The main difference from then until now is that while dinosaurs, cockroaches, beetles etc moved freely around, they did NOT demand shelter, food etc from their new hosts.

 

An example from the BBC news site today.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-63489276

 

Last week, MPs were told 12,000 Albanians had arrived in the UK after crossing the English Channel so far this year, compared to 50 in 2020.

Of these, 10,000 were men - representing 1% of Albania's adult male population.

Albanians now represent the biggest group of those crossing the Channel in small boats.

 

Asked about Mr Rama's comments, Immigration Minister Robert Jenrick said he wanted a "productive relationship" with the Albanian PM.

"But it's also true that Albania is a demonstrably safe country, and the vast majority of people coming from Albania are young males," he told ITV.

"It is a good example of economic migrants, of the kind that we as a country should be trying our best to deter," he added.

 

Why didn't they stay in Albania and help to rebuild it for a better place?

 

I have read, but cannot find the link again,  that the illegal immigrants are costing the UK GBP 7 million PER DAY.

 

https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2022/04/14/factsheet-cost-of-asylum-system/

 

Home Office statistics released in February 2022 showed that 28,526 migrants crossed the Channel in 2021- up from 299 in 2018. Almost all claim asylum.
The United Kingdom has legal obligations under ECHR and the 1999 Immigration and Asylum Act to provide asylum seekers who would otherwise be destitute, with accommodation and other support whilst their claim for asylum is being considered.
The current asylum system is costing the taxpayer £1.5 billion a year, the highest amount in over two decades.
The sharp increase in crossings and the pandemic has led to approximately 37,000 destitute migrants and those on resettlement schemes being accommodated in hotels, costing the taxpayer £4.7 million every day.

[Liverpool Lou]

13 minutes ago, DezLez said:

You can disagree with an opinion as often as you want in your own mind but if you do so you must have an opinion of your own to disagree with!

 

If so why not state it?

Choice.  He doesn't have to do what you tell him to, neither does he have to justify his opinion to anyone here.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

"But it's also true that Albania is a demonstrably safe country, and the vast majority of people coming from Albania are young males," he told ITV.

"It is a good example of economic migrants, of the kind that we as a country should be trying our best to deter," he added.

To be realistic , the UK has a labour shortage at the moment and with the lack of Europeans coming to the UK to work , those Albanians may come in handy to fill those job vacancies

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, DezLez said:

30,000 what?

Please define their status compared to the ones you "replied"/referred to?

Here, this’ll explain, it’s a report from September of this year so the totals are not up to date:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-62889043

[billd766]

2 hours ago, PeeJayEm said:

This is incorrect.  If you want to bracket all people making the crossing they are MIGRANTS - not asylum  seekers. The asylum seekers are a subset of these who are not e.g. economic migrants or criminals escaping justice such as the 1

- 2% of the young male population of  Albania who have decided they'll have an easier or more lucrative time in the UK instead of any other part of the EU.

 

it's important to get terminology right in this. Using "asylum seeker" for these elements lazily deprives real asylum seekers who are escaping persecution of their due sympathetic welcome.

But 'asylum seekers' can apply in their own country.

 

Crossing the Channel in a boat makes them illegal immigrants no matter what words you wrap them up in.

[Social Media]

 

[Chomper Higgot]

19 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

To be realistic , the UK has a labour shortage at the moment and with the lack of Europeans coming to the UK to work , those Albanians may come in handy to fill those job vacancies

You just said the quiet bit out loud.