Property without chanote....can it be included in a will?

[VinnieK]

Self explanatory title 

Also...in case it can be willed, can it be challenged legally (after death)? 

Briefly the backstory 

Thai lady that I know plans to will a chanote-less property to a friend.

Family is seething.

For sure they will challenge it in the courts after the old lady passes away 

 

Anybody can guess the outcome?

I have no horse in the race myself ????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tomazbodner]

Is the property leasehold, or is chanote with the bank, or is it informally owned and no chanote exists?

[blackcab]

The owner needs to enquire at the Land Office and get a replacement title deed. Without that she would just be storing up problems for the executor and the beneficiary.

 

If the family is hostile she can always transfer the land to the intended recipient before she dies. A sale in this manner cannot be contested.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, VinnieK said:

Anybody can guess the outcome?

My guess, only people living in the property would be allowed to take it over.

And if nobody living there, it will be reassigned by the head man to local people. 

[nigelforbes]

When you say channote-less property I presume it's a property where a channote has never been issued, this would be any of the half dozen lower categories of  land such as Nor Sor Sam, Nor Sor Sam Gor etc. That being the case, ownership is vested in the person who has possession and pays the taxes every year.

[Gottfrid]

Many time here, we are talking about land given by the government. That kind of land is hard to transfer, as the family will always have the first say in the matter.

[TravelerEastWest]

4 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Many time here, we are talking about land given by the government. That kind of land is hard to transfer, as the family will always have the first say in the matter.

Exactly - forest land etc has rules to follow - usually the children etc can inherit but exactly how would require talking to a local lawyer...

[VinnieK]

56 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Is the property leasehold, or is chanote with the bank, or is it informally owned and no chanote exists?

Informally owned 

Land was swampland (govt land)...she bought it from the squatter and built upon it.

She has this amphoe-issued blue book..don't know the Thai name 

Will see if I have a foto.

She doesn't want to sell to the beneficiary..only will it.

 

 

 

 

[hotandsticky]

You cannot bequeath what you don't own.

 

 

A Will does not need to be specific - it can refer to "all my assets" etc

[nigelforbes]

Just now, hotandsticky said:

You cannot bequeath what you don't own.

 

 

A Will does not need to be specific - it can refer to "all my assets" etc

Exactly, we have a winner.

[VinnieK]

41 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Exactly, we have a winner.

So, I assume she cannot will it..

..and the family will have to quarrel among themselves when the time comes..?

I doubt they can even go to the courts if the property is 'feral' ????

[nigelforbes]

Just now, VinnieK said:

So, I assume she cannot will it..

..and the family will have to quarrel among themselves when the time comes..?

I doubt they can even go to the courts if the property is 'feral' ????

As I said earlier, ownership is with the people who pay the tax on the Land once a year, they have the right of possession. My wifes family live on similar land, we even built a house on it fifteen years ago The MIL pays the tax every year and slowly but surely the land has moved up the rankings and we recently had notice that a channote will be issued. But I suspect all the family know these things because most Thai's do. They also know that Thai probate law includes a very complete list of succession which indicates how property is bequeathed to whom, in the absence of a will....there is a pecking order and they will know that too..

[VinnieK]

1 hour ago, nigelforbes said:

As I said earlier, ownership is with the people who pay the tax on the Land once a year, they have the right of possession. My wifes family live on similar land, we even built a house on it fifteen years ago The MIL pays the tax every year and slowly but surely the land has moved up the rankings and we recently had notice that a channote will be issued. But I suspect all the family know these things because most Thai's do. They also know that Thai probate law includes a very complete list of succession which indicates how property is bequeathed to whom, in the absence of a will....there is a pecking order and they will know that too..

She has never paid tax.

So..back to the original question

She cannot will the land to third parties?

It will be given to the rightful heirs after death?

[nigelforbes]

2 hours ago, VinnieK said:

She has never paid tax.

So..back to the original question

She cannot will the land to third parties?

It will be given to the rightful heirs after death?

Well.....if she doesn't have a chonnote and one doesn't exist, and she has never paid tax on the land, she has no claim to the land whatsoever I would imagine.....something doesn't sound quite right with that picture. But yes, if there is any sort of ownership link the probate court will sort it out.

[TravelerEastWest]

Actually it is normal to not pay tax on certain government land which is given for farming - no real paper.

 

Inside the village they usually have an informal system for transfer - sometimes the forest department collects a fee...

 

In theory if a farmer has government land given by the forest department it is currently being recorded on a computer database/map.

 

Children have a right to inherit if they are farmers - can't build resorts etc.