Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

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1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I have noticed it from people posting in this thread 

Here is a link to this thread.................as requested ????

 

 

You did make the request and I am obliged to comply 

 

Even if you did compile the evidence from this, it would still have no significance as applied to the UK population. But just presenting a link to a thread with uncompiled data doesn't even rise to the low standard you invoke. I'm certainly not going to take your word for it that this topic supports your contention and I'm not going to go to the trouble of compiling data to prove or disprove your point. This is just more trolling.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

6 Million E.U citizens came to live in the U.K

Where do you think they live ?

According to the figures which I cited and which included EU members and non EU members, the total increase was 5.3 milllion. Including non immigrants the total increase was about 7.5 million. That's against over 2 million new housing units being built. 

[Bluespunk]

34 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I am making a valid point , I have noticed that the people living in the UK (in this thread) are quite happy and content with  Brexit and the results of it and its those who live abroad who aren't happy with Brexit .

  For the sake of validating peoples opinion from personal experiences  , I wondered how long they have spent in the UK post Brexit 

You are not making a valid point. You are flailing to answer facts and deflection is your desperate attempt to hide this. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Bluespunk

[kwilco]

The thing about Brexiteers is they really didn’t have much of a clue – all thy knew is what they were told and they were told they weren’t happy.

 

A bundle of soundbites, clichés and catchphrase were put forward instead of any real policy and this coupled with a vague idea that things were better in the 1950s was enough.

May people also thought that nothing very much would change – they thought life would still go on but with blue passports (they didn’t know you could already get those).

 

What is very clear now is that things can’t go on….the economy is shrinking and that has palpable effects of everyone – especially the lower incomes who thought Brexit would help them.

The UK economy is one of the biggest in the world but it isn’t invulnerable and Brexit has given it a big, long kick in the fundament.

If you are in any doubt about how vulnerable a leading economy can be just look at what happened when Brexiteer Truss took over…. In a stark indictment of UK democracy, she was quickly ousted by the powers that be to prevent the UK from disappearing down a Brexit hole…..the truth is that the Brexit government keeps postponing further breaks with the EU because they know if they carry on it will just hasten the UK’s decline into a banana republic. The gradual realignment with Europe is not just a political thing, it is an inevitable progression that all politicians are aware of …. It’s just a matter of getting rid of the dingle polcy, dogma-driven few that remain in government.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, kwilco said:

..the truth is that the Brexit government keeps postponing further breaks with the EU because they know if they carry on it will just hasten the UK’s decline into a banana republic. 

What are those "further breaks with the E.U" that the UK is postponing ?

(Genuine question as I have no idea what you are talking about)

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What are those "further breaks with the E.U" that the UK is postponing ?

(Genuine question as I have no idea what you are talking about)

Well, for one thing it's been featured very prominently that the UK wants to renege on parts of its Brexit deal with the EU.

UK to rewrite Brexit deal on Northern Ireland; EU warns of action

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/13/uk-moves-to-rewrite-brexit-rules-eu-threatens-legal-action

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, for one thing it's been featured very prominently that the UK wants to renege on parts of its Brexit deal with the EU.

UK to rewrite Brexit deal on Northern Ireland; EU warns of action

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/13/uk-moves-to-rewrite-brexit-rules-eu-threatens-legal-action

That is a separate issue that needs sorting out as the UK/Ireland agreement conflicts with the E.U rules and to solve that issue there will need to be some compromise somewhere and either the UK/Ireland agreement needs to be changed or the E.U rules need to be changed as they conflict with one another and that's not an example of Kwilcos claims .

   Its up to the E.U whether they insist on a hard Irish border or whether they are willing to comprise on the issue 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There has been a housing shortage throughout the whole 12 year period of the current Government’s tenure.

 

At no time in those 12 years has the Government acted to meet the housing shortage with increased building.

 

The last time that happened was, as you yourself noted, prior to 2008 under a Labour Government.

 

Not building houses to meet demand has been Government policy.

 

Once again you blame immigrants.

Once again you shift the goalposts, then misquote and misrepresent what I said. 

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is a separate issue that needs sorting out as the UK/Ireland agreement conflicts with the E.U rules and to solve that issue there will need to be some compromise somewhere and either the UK/Ireland agreement needs to be changed or the E.U rules need to be changed as they conflict with one another and that's not an example of Kwilcos claims .

   Its up to the E.U whether they insist on a hard Irish border or whether they are willing to comprise on the issue 

That is absolute nonsense. The current arrangement on the island of Ireland does not conflict with EU rules.

 

The problem - as most people know  -  is that currently there is effectively a border between the mainland UK and N. Ireland, which the Unionist parties warned all along was unacceptable to them.

 

This has caused major political problems in the province, not least the suspension of the Stormont parliament.

[Mac Mickmanus]

30 minutes ago, RayC said:

That is absolute nonsense. The current arrangement on the island of Ireland does not conflict with EU rules.

 

 

So the Good Friday agreement can co exist with all the E.U regulations ?

   The Good Friday agreement agrees to an open border and E.U rules require a closed border , which is where the conflict between the three parties is .

[Bluespunk]

59 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

So the Good Friday agreement can co exist with all the E.U regulations ?

   The Good Friday agreement agrees to an open border and E.U rules require a closed border , which is where the conflict between the three parties is .

You have no idea what you are talking about. 
 

There has to be an open border between the Republic and Northern Ireland as part of the Good Friday Agreement. 
 

 

[kwilco]

Population growth rate of the UK in the last 10 years is 5.69%

Jut a little more than Thailand’s at 5,55% and less than the USA at 5.74%.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

Once again you shift the goalposts, then misquote and misrepresent what I said. 

I’ve provided evidence of a chronic failure to build the houses the nation needs.

 

The beneficiaries of this policy are home owners who have enjoyed constant, often hyper, inflation in the value of their assets, and Government’s who have relied on the votes of the financially rewarded  homeowners.

 

Buy to let largely benefitted these same homeowners.

 

Loosing out are people on low incomes and the young.

 

Continually increasing prices and the lack of affordable homes is now becoming a political issue amongst these same people locked out of owning, and increasingly, renting a home.

 

Scapegoat immigrants.

 

Over four decades of failure to build the houses the nation needs is the root cause of the housing shortage.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

So the Good Friday agreement can co exist with all the E.U regulations ?

   The Good Friday agreement agrees to an open border and E.U rules require a closed border , which is where the conflict between the three parties is .

Let me correct you.

 

BREXIT shall exist without impeding on the Good Friday Agreement.

 

[nauseus]

30 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ve provided evidence of a chronic failure to build the houses the nation needs.

 

The beneficiaries of this policy are home owners who have enjoyed constant, often hyper, inflation in the value of their assets, and Government’s who have relied on the votes of the financially rewarded  homeowners.

 

Buy to let largely benefitted these same homeowners.

 

Loosing out are people on low incomes and the young.

 

Continually increasing prices and the lack of affordable homes is now becoming a political issue amongst these same people locked out of owning, and increasingly, renting a home.

 

Scapegoat immigrants.

 

Over four decades of failure to build the houses the nation needs is the root cause of the housing shortage.

Not only shifting goalposts but also installing new sets of sticks all over the place! If you look at what I've said in previous posts then you might realize that I mostly agree with you, at least as far as the house price/ownership/availability issue goes.

 

That said, I thought to go back to the OP (a mere 91 pages ago) and the BBC story that it was linked to, which refers to a 'modest slide in the economy of 0.2% and anticipation of 'a run of several quarters marking the start of a lengthy recession', plus 'looking backwards now, it is very concerning that the UK economy remains smaller than just before the pandemic three years ago'.

 

So, since the OP looks back only three years and refers primarily to the UK's economic growth (or lack of it) it seems that you have veered way off topic, as have I, and just about everybody else commenting here. 

 

Hoping for Happy New Year for you and everyone.

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Not only shifting goalposts but also installing new sets of sticks all over the place! If you look at what I've said in previous posts then you might realize that I mostly agree with you, at least as far as the house price/ownership/availability issue goes.

 

That said, I thought to go back to the OP (a mere 91 pages ago) and the BBC story that it was linked to, which refers to a 'modest slide in the economy of 0.2% and anticipation of 'a run of several quarters marking the start of a lengthy recession', plus 'looking backwards now, it is very concerning that the UK economy remains smaller than just before the pandemic three years ago'.

 

So, since the OP looks back only three years and refers primarily to the UK's economic growth (or lack of it) it seems that you have veered way off topic, as have I, and just about everybody else commenting here. 

 

Hoping for Happy New Year for you and everyone.

I agree that we both and others have broadened to topic, but the OP does proffer an open question.

 

Yes we agree on many things and disagree on others.

 

Yes the OP does consider the past three years and prospects for the near future, such is the nature of news.

 

Regardless of disagreements I do appreciate your considered and supported responses.

 

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I agree that we both and others have broadened to topic, but the OP does proffer an open question.

I would call it a directed question, as I'm not sure the UK is struggling more than any other country.

The whole western world offers less for the future than it did in the past.

Less free education, less free health care, less pensions, less chance of staying married, less chance of home ownership, less job security, longer working hours and years, more homelessness.

 

But of course the whole thread is designed around slamming Brexit, so the rest of the world was deliberately left out of the question.

Edited December 31, 2022 by BritManToo

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, kwilco said:

businesses are now calling for a fast return to closer relationship with the EU just to stop them going under.

Businesses have "gone under" for as long as there have been businesses. The good ones will survive, the bad ones won't be missed.

Brexit is just an excuse for not being a worthwhile business.

[RayC]

6 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

So the Good Friday agreement can co exist with all the E.U regulations ?

   The Good Friday agreement agrees to an open border and E.U rules require a closed border , which is where the conflict between the three parties is .

Now that you have clarified what you meant, I will reign in my previous criticism somewhat. 

 

You are correct that the 'Good Friday' Agreement presupposes and requires an open border.

 

EU rules requiring a closed border remains absolute nonsense. If that were true, the current  Protocol would break these rules. Are you suggesting that is the case?

[thaibeachlovers]

24 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The whole western world offers less for the future than it did in the past.

Less free education, less free health care, less pensions, less chance of staying married, less chance of home ownership, less job security, longer working hours and years, more homelessness.

Well pointed out. Very much what I see here too.

[Chomper Higgot]

22 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I would call it a directed question, as I'm not sure the UK is struggling more than any other country.

The whole western world offers less for the future than it did in the past.

Less free education, less free health care, less pensions, less chance of staying married, less chance of home ownership, less job security, longer working hours and years, more homelessness.

 

But of course the whole thread is designed around slamming Brexit, so the rest of the world was deliberately left out of the question.

That’s what happens when economies are remodeled to transfer wealth upwards with a promise of a little ‘trickle down’.

 

The rot started in 1979.

[KhunLA]

29 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But of course the whole thread is designed around slamming Brexit, so the rest of the world was deliberately left out of the question.

Brits blame Brexit, Torys, Labor etc etc

Yanks blame Trump or Biden, Obama, Bush s

 

Should blame themselves for allowing politicians, they elected to office, to screw them over & over, again & again.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Brits blame Brexit, Torys, Labor etc etc

Yanks blame Trump or Biden, Obama, Bush s

 

Should blame themselves for allowing politicians, they elected to office, to screw them over & over, again & again.

Unfortunately it's usually a case of the least worse candidate. The offerings to vote on are sadly not much good these days.

[Chomper Higgot]

10 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What are those "further breaks with the E.U" that the UK is postponing ?

(Genuine question as I have no idea what you are talking about)

The most important and that which will cause the most damage to the UK economy, businesses and the lives of ordinary people in the UK is the ‘Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform Bill)’. 
 

In a repeat of earlier BREXIT outcomes the REUL bill transfers more of Parliament’s powers to the executive and removes Parliamentary scrutiny of Executive actions while at the same time stripping rights and protections from citizens of UK.

 

A power grab that is getting far too little exposure in the news and public discourse.

 

https://justice.org.uk/retained-eu-law-revocation-and-reform-bill/

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That’s what happens when economies are remodeled to transfer wealth upwards with a promise of a little ‘trickle down’.

 

The rot started in 1979.

I fully agree! 

[superal]

19 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The graph I posted indicates four decades of declining house building.

 

A period that aligns with the same four decades of rampant House price inflation 

 

Four decades of public policy failing to build the houses the nation needs while propping up house price inflation.

 

But along you come to blame it on immigration.

Actually your graph shows a peak in house building in the years 2018 -2019 under BJ . Then of course there was a decline because of the pandemic .  Under BJ , planning laws were modified and compacted in order to speed up , simplify and hopefully make the planning laws easier to deal with . I do not think it was successful because as follows .

The accent was put on the local councils for their approval of any needed local housing for both town & country . Town developments were more straight forward but rural , grass root developments are not so easy because of 1/ is the proposed land green belt ? 

2/ Is it a sustainable construction

3/ Will the development be in keeping with the local setting ?

4/ The local council ( often a parish council , made up of long term village residents of self importance akin to Dads Army folk ) may have an inconsiderate opinion or even a conflict of interest on the reasoning of , is there a local housing need ? 

 5/ NIMYISM = not in my back yard . Thus rural building to any reasonable scale is not easy with appeals and judicial reviews etc . Indeed my own experience was when I offered up 4 acres of land , to build low cost starter homes , at below market land costs but it was refused because the local residents wanted to retain their view and also it would not be in keeping with local settings . 

So in summary it is much easier to build a block of flats than to build individual homes , under current planning laws . 

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 hours ago, RayC said:

Now that you have clarified what you meant, I will reign in my previous criticism somewhat. 

 

You are correct that the 'Good Friday' Agreement presupposes and requires an open border.

 

EU rules requiring a closed border remains absolute nonsense. If that were true, the current  Protocol would break these rules. Are you suggesting that is the case?

The hard Irish border moved into the sea (between U.K and Ireland) to keep the GFA and the E.U hard border policy they erected a new hard border out in the sea and this is unacceptable to Northern Irish as it cuts them off from the rest of the U.K.

   The E.U does require closed borders , or perhaps hard border would be the better way to describe the borders in order to enforce E.U regulation .

   The GFA and E.U hard border rules contradict each other and there needs to a be a compromise somewhere from one/both of the sides

  

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The hard Irish border moved into the sea (between U.K and Ireland) to keep the GFA and the E.U hard border policy they erected a new hard border out in the sea and this is unacceptable to Northern Irish as it cuts them off from the rest of the U.K.

   The E.U does require closed borders , or perhaps hard border would be the better way to describe the borders in order to enforce E.U regulation .

   The GFA and E.U hard border rules contradict each other and there needs to a be a compromise somewhere from one/both of the sides

  

Then why did the UK sign an agreement they can't fulfill?

[Bluespunk]

19 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The hard Irish border moved into the sea (between U.K and Ireland) to keep the GFA and the E.U hard border policy they erected a new hard border out in the sea and this is unacceptable to Northern Irish as it cuts them off from the rest of the U.K.

   The E.U does require closed borders , or perhaps hard border would be the better way to describe the borders in order to enforce E.U regulation .

   The GFA and E.U hard border rules contradict each other and there needs to a be a compromise somewhere from one/both of the sides

  

Not true again.
 

The majority of members elected to the Stormont are in favour of the current border situation as it preserves the Good Friday Agreement.
 

Those not in favour are a minority of members and are exploiting the terms of the Good Friday Agreement to prevent Stormont meeting. 
 

Polls show support amongst the population of Northern Ireland for the protocol is ever more growing. 
 

https://www.qub.ac.uk/News/Allnews/2022/public-support-protocol-increases.html

 

Educate yourself before posting such inaccuracies. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Mac Mickmanus]

13 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Then why did the UK sign an agreement they can't fulfill?

The Irish  Good Friday agreement was signed BEFORE the UK left the E.U.

  The GFA was signed in 1998 and everyone was happy with the agreement  then Brexit came a long and the E.U requires Ireland to have a hard border between its E.U territory and non E.U territory and that hard border was back to where the Irish/Northern Irish borer used to be .

  The GFA and E.U rules contradict each other , one requires a hard border and the other requires a soft border