Electric plane manufacturer takes off, receives worldwide orders

[KhunLA]

16 minutes ago, giddyup said:

What are you going to do with those panels when they reach their shelf life? Do you know if and where they can be recycled?

I'll be long dead before they stop producing enough to be recycled.  Surely 20 years from now, if not already, they are using/recycling panels.  Or someone else will be happy to be 'given' them, to use, even in their limited capacity.  Batteries, pretty much the same, and 20 yrs from now, may not have good enough capacity to use, and again, 20 yrs further in the tech, they will have found a use for them.

 

But that doesn't answer my question.  Keep talking, the rest of us will 'do'.

 

You can be part of the solution, or part of the problem ... UP2U

[billd766]

12 minutes ago, giddyup said:

What are you going to do with those panels when they reach their shelf life? Do you know if and where they can be recycled?

There are some interesting links here about recycling solar panels.

 

https://www.epa.gov/hw/solar-panel-recycling

 

https://www.epa.gov/hw/solar-panel-recycling

 

https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/08/19/1032215/solar-panels-recycling/

 

https://grist.org/energy/solar-panels-are-starting-to-die-what-will-we-do-with-the-megatons-of-toxic-trash/

 

There are many more links if you do a Google search, but from what I can read und understand, ALL the countries in the world using solar power now, plus new countries wanting to use solar power, need to be planning and building solar panel recycling plants right now.

 

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

There are some interesting links here about recycling solar panels.

 

https://www.epa.gov/hw/solar-panel-recycling

 

https://www.epa.gov/hw/solar-panel-recycling

 

https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/08/19/1032215/solar-panels-recycling/

 

https://grist.org/energy/solar-panels-are-starting-to-die-what-will-we-do-with-the-megatons-of-toxic-trash/

 

There are many more links if you do a Google search, but from what I can read und understand, ALL the countries in the world using solar power now, plus new countries wanting to use solar power, need to be planning and building solar panel recycling plants right now.

 

The technology is not yet in place to recycle all the millions of panels that have already reached their shelf life. I can see where in some countries they will end up in landfill. There is no such thing as free energy.

[RandolphGB]

3 hours ago, giddyup said:

How is that electricity being generated? 

Some place that doesn't affect me. 

[RandolphGB]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

What "fumes" do Bangkok's LPG-fuelled buses and 4-stroke motorbikes emit that are so much worse than all the other 4-stroke vehicles on the road?

You don't use Bangkok roads much, do you?

[billd766]

This is a very useful topic and I do hope that it doesn't get derailed as many topics do.

 

Solar energy won't affect me personally that much as I am 78, my Thai wife is 57 and will affected a bit and our 18 year old son will be affected by the future developments.

 

Thailand has a good opportunity to get into solar recycling if they start now.

[billd766]

11 minutes ago, giddyup said:

The technology is not yet in place to recycle all the millions of panels that have already reached their shelf life. I can see where in some countries they will end up in landfill. There is no such thing as free energy.

Then NOW is the time to start, even if they have to import old solar panels from offshore.

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

This is a very useful topic and I do hope that it doesn't get derailed as many topics do.

 

Solar energy won't affect me personally that much as I am 78, my Thai wife is 57 and will affected a bit and our 18 year old son will be affected by the future developments.

 

Thailand has a good opportunity to get into solar recycling if they start now.

I recall speaking with a Thai guy a few years ago who owned some massive solar farms ‘up country’...

He had recently ‘pulled out’ and scrapped everything after the government stopped the subsidies - I don’t know much more about it, but it was a very interesting conversation. However in short, the farm at that time (about 6 years ago) became non-profitable.

 

I guess those fields of solar panels were recycled somewhere. 

[ozfarang]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

 

'It looks like a nice puddle jumper but with only room for 9 pax, a fixed undercarriage (lots of drag) and a relatively short range, there is certainly room to do better.'

 

 

The production version being ordered has retractable gear.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eviation_Alice

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by ozfarang

[billd766]

25 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I recall speaking with a Thai guy a few years ago who owned some massive solar farms ‘up country’...

He had recently ‘pulled out’ and scrapped everything after the government stopped the subsidies - I don’t know much more about it, but it was a very interesting conversation. However in short, the farm at that time (about 6 years ago) became non-profitable.

 

I guess those fields of solar panels were recycled somewhere. 

Many years ago while I was in the RAF, I was stationed at RAF West Raynham in Norfolk. It was eventually closed down and is now used as a solar panel generation station.

 

https://www.power-technology.com/marketdata/raf-west-raynham-solar-pv-park-uk/#:~:text=RAF West Raynham Solar PV Park is a 49.9MW,got commissioned in March 2015.

 

RAF West Raynham Solar PV Park is a ground-mounted solar project which is spread over an area of 225 acres.

The project generates 48,153MWh electricity and supplies enough clean energy to power 14,000 households, offsetting 21,460t of carbon dioxide emissions (CO2) a year. The project cost is $76.295m.

 

That is around 570 rai.

 

https://www.gem.wiki/West_Raynham_Airfield_solar_farm

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by billd766
added extra text

[billd766]

11 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

The production version being ordered has retractable gear.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eviation_Alice

 

 

Thank you for the update. I am glad to see a retractable undercarriage as that will cause less drag and better fuel consumption.

 

Having said that  however I also read that

 

quote

At 3,700kg (8,200lb), the batteries account for 60% of the aircraft take-off weight.[11] Manufacturing is planned in the US.[10]

The company plans for recharging to be carried out by mobile charging vehicles, similar to aviation fuel trucks. Each hour of flight time is expected to require a charging time of 30 minutes.[7][27] The cells are similar to those from auto industry batteries.[2]

 

quote

With 260 Wh/kg cells, the 900 kWh battery capacity (3,460 kg, 7,630 lb) is initially estimated to give the design a range of 540–650 nmi (1,000–1,200 km) at 240 knots and 10,000 ft (3,048 m).[5] This is anticipated to increase as battery technology improves.[5] The batteries have been tested to more than 1,000 cycles, equivalent to 3,000 flight hours, and will then require replacement at a cost of $250,000 - half of the direct operating cost, similar to a piston engine overhaul.[5] Based on U.S. industrial electricity prices, the direct operating cost with nine passengers and two crew, flying at 240 kn (440 km/h), is claimed to be $200 per hour, which compares to $600–1,000 per hour for existing aircraft of similar purchase price such as the Cessna 402s, Pilatus PC-12 and Beechcraft King Air, for operations on routes under 500 nmi (930 km).[5][8] 45% of air routes fall within its 565 nmi (1,050 km) range at 260 kn (482 km/h), or 55% of airline flights according to Flightglobal's Cirium data.

 

 

I hope that they do well with it.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, giddyup said:

Solar  and wind is a joke. We'd all be in the dark if we had to rely on that.

Rich people in Australia disagree with you. The ones I used to play golf with competed with one another to see how many solar panels they could cram onto the rooftops of their houses, and who had the biggest battery storage.

You don't get to be wealthy by being stupid with money, those guys could see what is coming.

So could I, the six solar panels I put on my roof about 20 years ago repaid the capital investment in about 18 months. Most businesses are very happy with 5 years.

Australia still relies on fossil fuels for 70% of its energy. Albania is 100% renewables. We are running tenth in terms of renewable energy production, if it was not for venal morons like Abbott and Morrison we would probably be up there with Albania. We do get plenty of sunshine.

[kidneyw]

4 hours ago, giddyup said:

How is that electricity being generated? 

You just put money in the meter.

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

So could I, the six solar panels I put on my roof about 20 years ago repaid the capital investment in about 18 months.

How much did those solar panels cost , how much electricity did they generate and how munch money did it save you ?

[GroveHillWanderer]

3 hours ago, HappyinNE said:

How about in Germany they are tearing out a wind farm to make room for an open pit coal mine.  This wind and solar needs either Nuclear power or continue using natural gas and oil.

These wind turbines were 20 years old, inefficient and at the end of their working life.  As mentioned in the article below, they were due to be decommissioned no matter what was going on with the lignite mine.

 

German windfarm to be dismantled

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How much did those solar panels cost , how much electricity did they generate and how munch money did it save you ?

And what is he going to do with them when they reach their use by date?

Edited November 14, 2022 by giddyup

[giddyup]

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Rich people in Australia disagree with you. The ones I used to play golf with competed with one another to see how many solar panels they could cram onto the rooftops of their houses, and who had the biggest battery storage.

You don't get to be wealthy by being stupid with money, those guys could see what is coming.

So could I, the six solar panels I put on my roof about 20 years ago repaid the capital investment in about 18 months. Most businesses are very happy with 5 years.

Australia still relies on fossil fuels for 70% of its energy. Albania is 100% renewables. We are running tenth in terms of renewable energy production, if it was not for venal morons like Abbott and Morrison we would probably be up there with Albania. We do get plenty of sunshine.

What damage to the environment was done to create those panels, and how are they going to be disposed of when they reach their shelf life? Bet no one considers that when they are bragging about how much money they save.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

What damage to the environment was done to create those panels, and how are they going to be disposed of when they reach their shelf life? Bet no one considers that when they are bragging about how much money they save.

Is it more damage than decommissioning a coal mine?

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, hansombeast said:

Ladies and gentlemen please fasten your seat belts we've ran out of battery power and are about to crash land. All bull<deleted>e

It's a good thing that planes running on fossil fuel are immune from running out. Otherwise, your comment would be pointless.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, giddyup said:

Is solar solving the world's energy needs? Then there's the problem of recycling all the millions of panels when they reach their shelf life after 25 years.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/10/27/new-process-to-recycle-si-pv-modules/

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/startup-is-recycling-solar-panels-turning-waste-into-valuable-material/

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/10022022/inside-clean-energy-solar-recycling/

[placeholder]

18 minutes ago, giddyup said:

What damage to the environment was done to create those panels, and how are they going to be disposed of when they reach their shelf life? Bet no one considers that when they are bragging about how much money they save.

As opposed to the harmlessness of burning fossil fuel. The IMF puts the global subsidy for fossil fuels at about 6 trillion dollars per year. That's about 6% of global GDP Most of that is due to the harm burning fossil fuels does to human health.

But none of the ranters consider that when they are going on about the harm that silicon panels do to the environment.

[PETERTHEEATER]

5 hours ago, giddyup said:

How is that electricity being generated? 

Next question please.......????

[Lacessit]

18 minutes ago, giddyup said:

What damage to the environment was done to create those panels, and how are they going to be disposed of when they reach their shelf life? Bet no one considers that when they are bragging about how much money they save.

You may be right, recycling of lithium hexafluorophosphate batteries is proving to be a major technical challenge. Having said that, IMO there is general agreement fossil fuels have to go.

I've just read an article where one of Australia's biggest natural gas producers is admitting sequestering carbon dioxide by pumping it underground is a failure, but that always was thermodynamic BS.

I can't see an electric aircraft making it from Melbourne to Los Angeles. It's like electric cars, which are much better suited to urban travel.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

You may be right, recycling of lithium hexafluorophosphate batteries is proving to be a major technical challenge. Having said that, IMO there is general agreement fossil fuels have to go.

I've just read an article where one of Australia's biggest natural gas producers is admitting sequestering carbon dioxide by pumping it underground is a failure, but that always was thermodynamic BS.

I can't see an electric aircraft making it from Melbourne to Los Angeles. It's like electric cars, which are much better suited to urban travel.

Not so much of a challenge. Redwood is the biggest US company in the field and its lithium battery recycling operation is already turning a profit.

[GreasyFingers]

3 hours ago, giddyup said:

Is solar solving the world's energy needs? Then there's the problem of recycling all the millions of panels when they reach their shelf life after 25 years.

And where does the polysilicon come from that converts the solar to electricity.

[billd766]

32 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You may be right, recycling of lithium hexafluorophosphate batteries is proving to be a major technical challenge. Having said that, IMO there is general agreement fossil fuels have to go.

I've just read an article where one of Australia's biggest natural gas producers is admitting sequestering carbon dioxide by pumping it underground is a failure, but that always was thermodynamic BS.

I can't see an electric aircraft making it from Melbourne to Los Angeles. It's like electric cars, which are much better suited to urban travel.

Long range aircraft travel using battery powered aircraft is still in its infancy.

 

Consider this though, on December 17th 1903 the Wright brothers made the first engine powered flight. 

 

On 1 July 1968 Neil Armstrong became the first man to walk on the moon, only 65 years later.

 

If you had told the Wright brothers and the world that in 1902, you would have been laughed at and mocked for the whole of your life

 

But you would have been right.

 

Electric long range aircraft are at a similar place now where the Wright brothers were in 1903, except that the technology nowadays is so much more advanced.

 

Also in 1903 the Wright brothers WERE the cutting age of technology for their time.

[Lacessit]

11 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Long range aircraft travel using battery powered aircraft is still in its infancy.

 

Consider this though, on December 17th 1903 the Wright brothers made the first engine powered flight. 

 

On 1 July 1968 Neil Armstrong became the first man to walk on the moon, only 65 years later.

 

If you had told the Wright brothers and the world that in 1902, you would have been laughed at and mocked for the whole of your life

 

But you would have been right.

 

Electric long range aircraft are at a similar place now where the Wright brothers were in 1903, except that the technology nowadays is so much more advanced.

 

Also in 1903 the Wright brothers WERE the cutting age of technology for their time.

You may be right, perhaps I should have put in a disclaimer about no technical problem that cannot be solved eventually. I am finding it difficult to envisage a battery-powered clone of an A380 carrying 500 passengers from London to Singapore, though.

[KhunLA]

5 hours ago, giddyup said:

Is solar solving the world's energy needs? Then there's the problem of recycling all the millions of panels when they reach their shelf life after 25 years.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/11/08/most-new-solar-panels-retain-80-production-after-30-years/

[Stargeezr]

I think that there are at least two cities in India that have worse air quality than Bangkok.

  I wonder what the range is for this newest electric plane? I wonder how long it takes to 

recharge the battery as well? If it was not for oil, an EV car or plane could be built, think about that for a while.

 There is a lot of oil products in each of these EVs, like the battery dashboards, and the linings and coverings

inside of them.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, giddyup said:

Solar  and wind is a joke. We'd all be in the dark if we had to rely on that.

The current best alternative to oil fired power stations is nuclear, as PROVEN by France, but due to IMO woke inspired anti propaganda, they are not an option for most countries.