Red for Danger?

[Negita43]

I just cut a moulded 3 pin Thai plug cable and I see the following inner cable colours grey, black - probably  live and neutral eh BUT third  inner cable RED

I would assume this is EARTH = but assumptions can kill you (or at least trip the system).

Has any one encountered this color combination before?

 

[VocalNeal]

The colours are irrelevant in this case. It is what pins the colours were connected to which is relevant. That decides what they were. Anything else is hypothesis.

Edited December 15, 2022 by VocalNeal

[carlyai]

If you're worried buy a new molded cable.

Don't re-use the old one, or, red= active. Black= neutral.

[Moonlover]

Deleted

Edited December 15, 2022 by Moonlover

[Negita43]

Sure your logic is correct - but it's a moulded plug so short of continuity testing each cable ( I am still waiting for Shoppe to deliver a new meter - see other post) and I just asked if anyone had seen this colour combination before.

[VocalNeal]

I think they simply use whatever cable is cheap and available. No one sees it unless they cut it open.

 

The danger would be cutting it at the appliance end and making assumptions.

Edited December 15, 2022 by VocalNeal

[carlyai]

1 minute ago, Negita43 said:

Sure your logic is correct - but it's a moulded plug so short of continuity testing each cable ( I am still waiting for Shoppe to deliver a new meter - see other post) and I just asked if anyone had seen this colour combination before.

Seen red and black before, used to be active and neutral. Slate (grey) seen but can't remember.

Could Google it: 'In a power cable, what do the colours red, black and slate mean?'

Hope I'm still on-topic. ????

[SomchaiDIY]

these are old color found in vct cable

 

red - line

grey - neutral

black - possible ground

best make continuity check because any combination can happen in thailand

 

photo old vct cable

 

[Negita43]

33 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Seen red and black before, used to be active and neutral. Slate (grey) seen but can't remember.

Could Google it: 'In a power cable, what do the colours red, black and slate mean?'

Hope I'm still on-topic. ????

Yes Crossy used to have a link to his piece on colour coding but now it doesn't seem to work.

[OneMoreFarang]

In my limited experience Thais use any available cables for anything and the colors are used randomly.

I remember a new high class office building in Sathorn with white, white and white cables...

 

In the old breaker box which I just removed from my apartment they used black, blue and green. And it seems they used them randomly for L, N or earth.

 

I have to repeat myself: In Thailand there is (often) no logic. It doesn't make any sense to try to find something which is just not there. 

[Negita43]

Funny how one thing leads to another.

Black and Grey meter at 230V

All cables have appear to have continuity BUT shorting Red with other two (one by one) fails to trip  the box. (my way to test it was an earth cable)

SO being a careful person I then checked the box using the test button - nothing!!

Any suggestion as to why this might be occuring.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Negita43
add something

[digger70]

Color doesn't mean anything in Los .

Use multimeter or Testing light to what you have to connect to L/N /Earth

[carlyai]

Magic?

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Negita43 said:

SO being a careful person I then checked the box using the test button - nothing!!

Any suggestion as to why this might be occuring.

The RCBO has either failed and needs immediate replacement or it is wired incorrectly and needs immediate checks and rewiring. 
 

In either case this is urgent as you have no protection from the faults it is designed to save you from.
I am not exaggerating in saying that if there is a fault death is a possible result, so don’t put off fixing the problem.

Edited December 15, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[The Theory]

4 hours ago, Negita43 said:

All cables have appear to have continuity BUT shorting Red with other two (one by one) fails to trip  the box. (my way to test it was an earth cable)

By shorting wire you can only identify the Line wire. Shorting Line to N or E will trip a breaker since N and E are connected in the breaker box. 

[Jaybott]

Red and Black are common colors for DC.  Red is normally positive,  black is normally negative.  The ground can be any color and I have seen gray for ground.  As most are saying here, a simple continuity test will confirm which wire goes to which pin.

[dingdongrb]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Magic?

Back in my electronic days we noted it as being 'FM'.

[Negita43]

The RCBO has either failed and needs immediate replacement or it is wired incorrectly and needs immediate checks and rewiring. 

This system has been in place for 8 years at least and was fine so I don't think it was wired incorrectly  - but I have been away for a few years (Covid) - no telling what the GF has had done whilst I was away of course she says "nothing".

I also read that this fault can be caused by a N-E fault whatever that means.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, Negita43 said:

This system has been in place for 8 years at least and was fine so I don't think it was wired incorrectly

The length of time that there has been no problem does not change the danger or the urgency. Have you tested the RCBO regularly before? If not you don’t know if the wiring is one problem, if you did then you know the RCBO must be replaced.
 

There are many systems that until there is a fault work with no problem. The RCBO is there to reduce the chance of death if a fault happens in the wrong way. At this time you do not have the protection that an RCBO gives. The problem is that you have no idea when and to whom an accident will happen. Do you want a child or loved one to find out if a fault is deadly?

Edited December 15, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[carlyai]

13 hours ago, carlyai said:

Magic?

Sorry for that unhelpful comment. 

[Negita43]

10 hours ago, carlyai said:

Sorry for that unhelpful comment. 

Neither unhelpfull nor helpfull just confusing but thanks for the apology

[Negita43]

UPDATE

The RCBO is now functioning but there is one more question (see last paragraph).

Another thing I have now noticed is this:  The attached picture I took in May this year just before we went to the UK for 5 months. In that picture you can see the little black switch is OFF and the trip value was set to the minimum 6mA.

I haven’t changed any of the settings since my return but now I notice the mA was set to 20 and the little black switch was ON.

Setting the little black switch to OFF restored the RCBO functionality.

A Thai neighbour “took care” of the house whilst we were away and I am wondering if some “tinkering” took place for some reason.

I now am happy that the RCBO protection is working (not sure about the MCBs for tripping although all circuits appear to be working).

So can anyone tell me, apart from restoring my RCBO fuctionality what exactly does that little black switch on and off - ie if it is ON - what is ON - apparently not the RCBO since switching it OFF restores the RCBO??

[Crossy]

I believe that switch is a "bypass" for the RCD part of the device and should normally be "off". The idea being that you can get the juice back on even if you have an earth-leak (not something I would be recommending).

 

You could try making an external tester using a small lamp connected L-E on a plug. Plugging it in should trip the RCBO immediately.

[Negita43]

Thank you Crossy - I bought a socket tester with an RCD trip button - with the switch on nothing happens with the switch off it trips the RCBO. Another interesting thing is I already had a UK socket tester and when I tried that on a socket (with adapter) it showed live and neutral reversed. Being a cautious guy I then bought one over here and it showed correct live and neutral.

[Crossy]

Yeah, the simple adaptors don't swap the pins over.

 

UK is Live on the right; Thailand is Live on the left (both with earth at the top).

 

[Negita43]

Just one final question - the RCBO trip mA is it OK at 20 or should I set it back to 6mA (where its was in the first place)

[Crossy]

Set it to the lowest value that will stay on under adverse weather conditions (when surges may trip the beast).

 

The UK standard for domestic RCBOs (which are fixed) is 30mA so you're really good to go at any of the available settings.