“There weren’t enough life vests on board” – latest in the search for missing crew

[poyai111]

6 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

It never seems to end. Sometimes there's just not enough jackets accessible to those who need it. 

 

Ppl get so used to the day to day life on a ship over years, that it never crosses their mind that the ship could sink. And even during incidents, they don't believe the ship is really at risk. They teach you that the ship is your safest bet. Stay with the ship. On the surface it sounds really stupid when these things happen but its a little more complicated than that. 

A ship is quite safe even in the worst of conditions so long as it ships no water. While ever it floats, even if very uncomfortable, it remains safe. When it ships water it loses bouancy and balance, perhaps heeling over and shipping even more water then ultimately foundering. If the bilge pumps are inoperative or inadequate the result is a forgone conclusion.

[hotchilli]

17 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

In contrast to earlier reports, he admitted that there were not enough life vests on board… “but the Styrofoam boxes containing the life vests could be used as floatation devices”.

 

17 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

and how to stay afloat with a life vest, adding that being a good swimmer is not necessarily the best way to survive, but using as little energy as possible while in the sea.”

Seems the training may need to be adjusted.

[hotchilli]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Meanwhile, Commander-in-Chief of the RTN, Admiral Choengchai Chomchoenpaet said that the Navy will conduct an investigation to determine the exact cause of the sinking of the vessel and into a report that there were insufficient life vests on board for all 106 crew members.

I hope he offers his resignation on Monday morning.

[spidermike007]

1. The boat never should have sunk. It was likely incompetence on the part of the captain, or dumb errors on the part of some of the sailors. The seas were not high enough to bring down a boat like that. Not exactly a rogue wave in the Gulf. 

 

2. The Royal Thai Navy’s Vice Admiral Pichai Lorchusakul should lose his commission immediately, along with the navy boss, and the ship captain. 

 

3. The was no excuse for not having sufficient life preservers on board. That was sheer recklessness and gross malfeasance. 

 

Heads need to roll over this. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by spidermike007

[mikeymike100]

15 hours ago, proton said:

Thought this sort of sandal was sorted out after the Titanic!

Totally agree with you , but it seems some people, and navies, never learn?

Very sad and stupid?

[Cake Monster]

17 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

“All the men had been trained in survival techniques at sea, including swimming from one island to another, and how to stay afloat with a life vest, adding that being a good swimmer is not necessarily the best way to survive, but using as little energy as possible while in the sea.”

Its all well and good to state that they poor Sailors had been trained to " swim from one Island to another "and how to stay afloat using a life vest,

But, if the high up command do not make sure their subordinates are providing the vital amount of correct Equipment, then it basically means the Military equivalent of Corporate Manslaughter.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, ChrisY1 said:

Good post, thanks.

However,I would imagine that the embarrassment of disclosing any fault with regard the RTN would be too much for the Defence Ministry to handle.

Or for that matter, the Thai psyche to handle.

[Cake Monster]

If a total disregard for Safety can be employed on a RTN Vessel, then there is no hope at all for the Safety of Tourists and Locals alike.

This was already demonstrated with the loss of all those Chinese Tourists a couple of Years or so ago.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

Someone who happens to watch a lot of marine incident reports on Youtube. Check it out https://www.youtube.com/@BrickImmortar

Figures. Better steer clear of the DIY A bomb construction vids.

[cardinalblue]

Maybe they were practicing how they wear helmets as it carries over from every day life…

 

Life rafts and vests do add extra weight if speed is a criteria…safety first signs only apply to construction sites here…

 

Maybe time to rethink priorities…

 

 

[Robin]

Standard procedure on all ships that I have worked on has been that there is 1 life jacket for each crew, normally kept in their cabin, and another at the emergency muster station; i.e. at least 2 for each crew onboard.

When extra 'passengers' are onboard, it would ultimately be the captain's responsibility to ensure that there were enough life jackets.

I note a big silence as to the Captain's fate.  Did he go down with his ship, or was he one of the lucky ones?

As for using Styrofoam boxes instead of life jackets;  that is complete B/S.  The purpose of a life jacket, properly worn, is that it keeps the user afloat, face above water, even if the user is unconscious.  it also has a light to attract attention of rescuers, and being orange colour, is most easily seen.

Normal operating procedure, with a load of "passengers" onboard who might not have safety training, would be to hold an emergency drill son after leaving port.  If this had been done, the shortage of life jackets would have been obvious.

Normally, it would be the decision of the Captain if extra "passengers" perhaps not properly trained in emergencies, were carried.  Could he have been overruled by some superior onshore?  

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, connda said:

This is a complete disgrace for a military organization that claims it is a Navy.  A "pretend Navy" at best.
The entire chain of command from the ship's captain (who is 100% responsible for everything that occurred on his ship) right up to the ranking admiral - and every officer in-between - should either resign or be discharged.

Speaking as a Navy vet:  Yeah, this is a complete, unabashed disgrace.

Re the lack of life vests; I wonder if this is the same as heard many times re motor cyclists not wearing crash helmets:

 

' Don't worry I'll put it on when I'm going to have an accident.'

Edited December 21, 2022 by scorecard

[CatCage]

I always believed a military vessel has many more watertight doors and compartments than a civilian ship and can be all be easily sealed off in the case of any battle damage, sounds like they were all left open and then water even got to the engine room and back up generators. 

And then to cap it off not enough life jackets.

 

On the face of it sounds like clear case for dereliction of duty by so many on so many levels.  

Edited December 21, 2022 by CatCage

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, Robin said:

Standard procedure on all ships that I have worked on has been that there is 1 life jacket for each crew, normally kept in their cabin, and another at the emergency muster station; i.e. at least 2 for each crew onboard.

When extra 'passengers' are onboard, it would ultimately be the captain's responsibility to ensure that there were enough life jackets.

I note a big silence as to the Captain's fate.  Did he go down with his ship, or was he one of the lucky ones?

As for using Styrofoam boxes instead of life jackets;  that is complete B/S.  The purpose of a life jacket, properly worn, is that it keeps the user afloat, face above water, even if the user is unconscious.  it also has a light to attract attention of rescuers, and being orange colour, is most easily seen.

Normal operating procedure, with a load of "passengers" onboard who might not have safety training, would be to hold an emergency drill son after leaving port.  If this had been done, the shortage of life jackets would have been obvious.

Normally, it would be the decision of the Captain if extra "passengers" perhaps not properly trained in emergencies, were carried.  Could he have been overruled by some superior onshore?  

Well done. I was waiting for someone to mention the "drill" word. Timely abandon ship drills, if carried out properly, would immediately highlight any shortfall of lifejacket numbers and other safety equipment. Regular drills should be second nature to sailors and marines.

 

You are right, most ships these days are required to carry at least 100% personal floatation devices by SOLAS regulations, (many carry 200%). However, the RTN is a military service and it will have its own regulations. But as a naval vessel, this ship will have carried an extra marine detachment quite regularly, so provision for extra equipment should have been part of the vessel's own safety plan. 

 

I really hope and pray that they can save some more lives today. 

[khunPer]

????

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, Muhendis said:

Agreed, but steam?

 

In this context, power!

[Bangkok Barry]

20 hours ago, carlyai said:

If true, it's disgusting. 

If true, they must have never had a real emergancy drill, not just recently, but never. ????

Would you expect anything different? 

[Burma Bill]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

He insisted that the investigation will be straightforward and transparent.

....................until it reaches "Officer" level??????

[Lingba]

a wai and a 5000 baht payment should fix this 

[PETERTHEEATER]

15 hours ago, still kicking said:

A friend who works on a rig send me this 

https://www.facebook.com/messenger_media/?attachment_id=565853935551322&message_id=mid.%24cAAAADH6oaF6LWspfMWFKYUUC_DSP&thread_id=100007668611528

What is this Bookface?

[PETERTHEEATER]

10 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Anyone know why there seems to be a hole in ship ? Maintenance negligence ? 

I just have this suspicion that the hull was breached underwater from striking an obstacle. Is the Captain one of those missing?

[PETERTHEEATER]

7 hours ago, cracker1 said:

I have not read of any helicopter searches ? Has anyone else ?

Yes.

[cardinalblue]

ill-fated vessel or ill-fated management? Never accept personal responsibility..

 

And the life rafts were not launched….hard to believe they had proper emergency drills and practice…instead, the crew goes down with the ship…I wonder if the captain was last to depart?

 

Lived here long enough to know this is par for the course…

[bangon04]

7 hours ago, scorecard said:

And an obvious point; simple but usefull life vests are easy are readibly available for purchase, and quick to buy, in bulk and not expensive.

 

There is a world shortage at the moment - most stocks are being diverted to the coast near Calais........

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

I just have this suspicion that the hull was breached underwater from striking an obstacle. Is the Captain one of those missing?

Shipping container, washed overboard from another ship?

Depending on what they are loaded with they can float a foot or two below the surface. Hit one if you are pushing hard in heavy seas and it could punch a hole in the hull. If your damage control routines are not perhaps all they should be, and the engine room floods, you lose power...

 

I used to sail a lot ( large - 55 foot - sail training yachts) in all sorts of weather, and they were the one thing in heavy weather that worried me.

Edited December 21, 2022 by herfiehandbag

[TKDfella]

8 hours ago, Partenavia said:

Having spent a significant amount of time at sea in command of Tankers, and also having sailed around the world in a small boat. I am absolutely appalled at the standard of reporting and news releases from the Thai Navy.

Ships to not sink in the weather experienced by this vessel, unless there is something fundamentally wrong with the ship. It requires a catastrophic event  for a vessel to sink. 

It's time accurate reporting and serious questions put to the authorities, as to a proper account as to what happened. Too many have died for it to be brushed under the carpet.

I guess this being Thailand those cupalable will not be brought to justice.

I notice that there are several forum members who have been sailors/years of experience, on this forum and the earlier thread so I trust their judgement. Although I've been a passenger, I know very little about ships in general. However, when I watched a video of the event I thought that I'd been on an English Channel ferry (long time ago) that crossed in a bigger swell. So it would seem that we aren't being told the full story here...but then I suppose we never will. What is the standard protocol for informing families and relating details to them?

[thaivisareader]

did the so-called captain go down with the ship? I hope.

[mikebike]

10 hours ago, Peterphuket said:

They are still humans, or not?

It's the biggest shame not enough life vests.

And... What has morality got to do with systems of law, the original point if the post I replied to? 

[trainman34014]

3 hours ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

I just have this suspicion that the hull was breached underwater from striking an obstacle. Is the Captain one of those missing?

Captain has already been on TV talking about how the Men in the Sea will be having a difficult time....beggers belief !