Sinsod

[Hummin]

2 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

At first I was thinking about offering 100k just to keep the family peace, but considering that they probably now have something like 5 million baht in their head, I guess they would never be happy with 100k, so I guess it will be 0 baht.

Good luck!

 

First thing I brought on table after a few days visiting my new gf family, and also asked what they expected of my.

 

3 baht gold, a piece of land 100k show money. 

 

Not necessary to say they got many times more before the marriage, but still got to do the official village marriage.

 

All they asked for, was to treat their daughter good. Anyway, it was my gf who translated and did the talking.

 

8 years coming up, and still good feeling! 

[NativeBob]

@Kenny202 Good point. Totally agree

whatever they consider "correct sinsod" will always be "not enough" and "hell no!" for each side.

I'm not familiar with brave and bold folk of Isaan, but in Bangkok the best sinsod I saw was a down payment for new condo. Seemed legit: he paid, condo is in her name and the money are in the family.

PS: seems that some northern girls are not that illiterate if they are able to maintain quite broad conversation with their farang bf, do they?

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

Depends on the standing of the family I think, if it's a poor family, then what you say is probably true.

My girlfriend's family is not rich, but they are doing just fine, so in my opinion they could easily get away by saying "We are doing well by ourselves, we don't want their money, they should use it to build their future and they will support us when we don't work anymore" or something like that.

 

I think the idea is that the husband shows that he has money to take care of the bride. And as far as I know the parents are in some way supposed to "give it back". Not literally, but by providing land to build a house or something like that. We have some experts here in the forum who know the details.

 

And this has little to do with being rich or poor. As far as I know rich Thais also pay sinsod, millions to show how rich they are and how much they are in love and all that.

It seems to be accepted cultural standard for rich and poor Thais. And I think if we live in Thailand and want to marry a Thai then we should not ignore their culture and customs. 

 

[riclag]

Up to you ! But you better discuss how your teelac feels about your decision, cause you guys are gonna live with that.

 

Ive never given a sinsod but I did build a house in the moo ban ma , where we and all of the dogs of Thailand reside !

Edited December 21, 2022 by riclag

[Kenny202]

31 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think the idea is that the husband shows that he has money to take care of the bride. And as far as I know the parents are in some way supposed to "give it back". Not literally, but by providing land to build a house or something like that. We have some experts here in the forum who know the details.

 

And this has little to do with being rich or poor. As far as I know rich Thais also pay sinsod, millions to show how rich they are and how much they are in love and all that.

It seems to be accepted cultural standard for rich and poor Thais. And I think if we live in Thailand and want to marry a Thai then we should not ignore their culture and customs. 

 

First paragraph a fair description...but it works both ways. Poor Isaan people dont get millions of baht for a poor uneducated girl, particularly with kids, ex husband etc. 50k max in this circumstance if it were a village Thai brokerage unless the family had big land holdings. Family financial support is also meant to stop on marriage. It seems horrible putting a price on a woman and a marriage but that indeed is the culture here and their rules of the game. For a poor Isaan family to be asking for even 6 figures is ridiculous....well at least to a Thai who knows the deal it is ridiculous. In my book starts the relationship off on the wrong foot and demonstrates you are a gullible and easy mark from that day forward. Anyone who has ever negotiated a price on anything with a Thai should know to negotiate hard and don't give in too easy, even if you think a fair price. They go away thinking they could have gotten more and the games will start the next day...agreed price being increased. But hey, if you have deep pockets and you want to show the love you have for this girl it's 100% your choice.

[FriendlyFarang]

58 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think the idea is that the husband shows that he has money to take care of the bride. And as far as I know the parents are in some way supposed to "give it back". Not literally, but by providing land to build a house or something like that. We have some experts here in the forum who know the details.

 

And this has little to do with being rich or poor. As far as I know rich Thais also pay sinsod, millions to show how rich they are and how much they are in love and all that.

It seems to be accepted cultural standard for rich and poor Thais. And I think if we live in Thailand and want to marry a Thai then we should not ignore their culture and customs. 

 

We should differentiate between sinsod that is just put there for show, and what is actually kept by the parents.

I think especially under rich Thais, the money is nearly always only put there for show, and then returned, I doubt the rich parents would keep it.

And even if they keep it, if somebody of a family with a net worth of a billion pays 10 million sinsod, this has no impact on his life, similar to me giving 100k to their family.

They specifically explained to my girlfriend that the money is for the parents, and the gold for my girlfriend, so it's quite clear that they plan to keep the money.

 

I do of course not know what they really think of me. Maybe they think that I have 100 million+ in the bank, or earn a few million a month, so 5 million wouldn't be much money for me, don't forget that I'm farang....

Edited December 21, 2022 by FriendlyFarang

[OneMoreFarang]

There is of course another fine option: Don't marry!

If you like have the same girlfriend for years or even your whole life.

If she loves you, then she will stay with you. 

[Kenny202]

49 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

There is of course another fine option: Don't marry!

If you like have the same girlfriend for years or even your whole life.

If she loves you, then she will stay with you. 

Agree, maybe a village wedding and a party. I would weigh up the pro's and con's of formal marriage first. From what I know some positives some negatives. Certainly if you are considering building a property in her name or buying vehicles etc do it AFTER you marry. That way you will be entitled to half of what came into the relationship after legal marriage. If you buy all this stuff in her name BEFORE you are married it will be legally hers and she will be entitled to everything she had before the marriage (house, vehicles) and entitled to 50% of everything you  acquired after the legal marriage. An acquaintance of mine learning that the hard way now. Another thing to consider, and maybe not be a financial consideration but should you wish to apply for the pension in at least Australia, know that your pension will be reduced on the basis you are married. Ridiculous really particularly if you marry a woman that will not contribute in anyway financially....but they deem as you are married you will be sharing expenses etc etc therefor the sum is reduced. Just food for thought.

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Which certainly can be true. My son's wife has a loud mouthed mid aged meddling lady boy brother (no disrespect of gay folks meant). He knows everything, and insists that he knows everything about the law.

 

When my son and his now wife told her family they were going to get married ladyboy LB started trying to get himself involved, instantly telling my son he wanted  starting 'deposit' of 500,000Baht to arrange the wedding, a massive Chinese style banquet and more.

 

My son also discovered LB was making detailed notes of the names and ban account details of all relatives including 2nd cousins etc., etc. Son asked LB 'what are you doing?'

 

Response from LB ''Your father is a farang and all farang are very very rich with no limit on their money because the gov't of his country give every citizen 50,000Baht a month regardless of gender, age, working/not working and regardless of location and it includes all relatives". Son insisted 'not true'.

 

Son told LB 'I will call the xxx embassy on speakerphone and you can listen and I'll check if this is true.'

 

Son did call and of course embassy said 'not true. no such thing'.

 

LBs comment 'xxx embassy tells lies'.

 

Son confiscated the lists and told all concerned this is not true and at the same time said 'If LB tells you anything about my father you check with me'.  Also told them 'like most farang my father is not a rich man, the budget for my wedding will be quite small, 500,000Baht is not possible and my GF and I don't a wedding party like this.

 

 

Why would you bother the embassy with that, just tell the LB to shut up and that he doesn't want any "help" concerning the wedding. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, FriendlyFarang said:

Maybe they think that I have 100 million+ in the bank

It almost sounds as if you have less than that. They should think twice if you are the right guy for their daughter. ???? 

[OneMoreFarang]

41 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Agree, maybe a village wedding and a party.

If you think that makes you officially unmarried, think again.

I remember a guy who thought he was not married to his Thai girlfriend because they never officially married.

And later he separated from her.

She insisted she was married and as a prove she had lots of pictures of their Thai marriage ceremony.

It seems in the eyes of the Thai courts for divorce that was evidence enough.

 

Is it true? I didn't see the documents but normally the guy was not telling BS stories. So be careful of what you are doing. 

[4MyEgo]

5 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

At first I was thinking about offering 100k just to keep the family peace, but considering that they probably now have something like 5 million baht in their head, I guess they would never be happy with 100k, so I guess it will be 0 baht.

I believe that's a wise decision and the reason I say that is because if they are asking, then you are going to have a heck of a time with your new in-laws in the future. Sounds to me like she is not the only child in the family too.

 

Let me provide you with some background from when I married my wife 15 years ago.

 

Firstly allow me to say her family are real battlers, i.e. poor and there are 4 daughter in the family in total, 3 married farangs, one divorced, the last one is the wild child of the family and has never landed a farang, but has had more Thai partners than you can count fingers on both hands and has had about 3 abortions and is a single mum at 40 years of age and still lives with mum and dad.

 

Anyways, I took my wife back to my country for a holiday, no discussion about marriage, and when her tourist visa was approaching it's expiry date, I found out that she couldn't renew it and the only way she could extend her stay was to apply for a bridging visa after I married here, that said, I knew they broke the mould that they made this one with and I jumped all in, but not before seeing a family law specialist who recommended a prenuptial agreement before we got married, she had no issues with that and totally understood, so we proceeded.

 

Ok, so we got married and one night in a restaurant I said to her so what would you like for the Sin Sot and she said, oh, you know about Sin Sot, I said well it helps to know a little about your culture and she said, um, up to you, regarding the amount, I persisted, and so did she, and at the end she said, I don't know, ok, a million baht, I said, hmmm, nah, too muk, and she said, look, up to you, whatever you give my parents they will appreciate, besides I don't want them putting you down, or anyone else in the village, so I said, ok, I think 200,000 baht should do it and she said ok, up to you, I then said, but it's conditional, she said what do you mean, and I said, the 200,000 baht will be given to them at the village ceremony to show face and they will give it back straight after the ceremony and we will go and pay their ute off, e.g. 120,000 baht so that they are debt free, they had 12 months left of repayments that I know were struggling monthly to pay, so the payout made freed them from that burden. 

 

Naturally the parents agreed to my terms and conditions and to this day still haven't asked for one baht, although I do help out here and there when I think I should, e.g. mum goes to clinic, pays bill 3,000 baht for a minor operation, I give it to the Mrs to give it to her mum and say it's from her, not me, anything I give my Mrs to give to her mum or dad for occasions, I tell her make sure they don't know that it's from me. 

 

I am well off, well more than most and the 200,000 baht back in the day when I was working was a couple of weeks wages for me, but what I was receiving was worth 100 x that, still is, so I call that a good business deal ????

 

Since your future in-laws asked for the Sin Sot, I would give them zilch as they sound like in-laws you are going to have problems with, i.e. unless your future bride to be is strong enough to understand your marrying her and not her family, on the other hand, if they are battlers, minding their own, you could give them a leg up, but it's out in the open now and you know what your dealing with, no doubt your future bride to be might start showing you some different colours, hopefully that is not the case, and if she does, she's done you a huge favour. 

 

Last but not least, only invest what your prepared to walk away from. 

 

Best of luck with it all Charlie .

[digger70]

Thai dowry depends on the social status of the bride’s family as well as her education level and is at oftentimes disagreed upon by Westerners, if not refused altogether. On average, a Thai wife can be worth about 100,000 Baht at least.

However, if the bride is “spoiled or ruined” (Mia Maiy), no Thai dowry will be required, as well as if she comes along with her children of a former marriage. 

[swm59nj]

I was told once by a Thai man that Sinsod is usually paid only if the woman has never been married.  And she is not considered old and she contributes to her family for support. If she is divorced , has children, or older than no Sinsod.  But it depends who you talk to. 
But my personal opinion is different.  I would not pay Sinsod under any circumstances.  I have heard Thai men are asked to pay it too at times.  But I would not. Some people say it is cultural.  But if it came down to a foreigner.  I’m guessing in most circumstances the price would be higher. 

[scorecard]

30 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Why would you bother the embassy with that, just tell the LB to shut up and that he doesn't want any "help" concerning the wedding. 

Son did just that several times but LB didn't stop, he believes hes' right about everything. The mother is the village chief and she asked my son to do something concrete to resolve the matter becaue it was causing issues in the village. This followed the LB telling all the village the farang had ordered a BMW car for the mother, then mother had to explain 'there's no BMW, which caused loss of face.

 

She listened to the phone call with a Thai member of the embassy staff, who checked then said not true, no such thing.  Mother then immediately got angry with LB son and made it clear 'this stops now'.

 

Next issue was the LB telling my son he wanted 50,000Baht for flowers for the wedding. His thinking was, as always 'the farang is rich so go big'.

Son texted a response 'NO and don't ask again for any money for anything'.    

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If you think that makes you officially unmarried, think again.

I remember a guy who thought he was not married to his Thai girlfriend because they never officially married.

And later he separated from her.

She insisted she was married and as a prove she had lots of pictures of their Thai marriage ceremony.

It seems in the eyes of the Thai courts for divorce that was evidence enough.

 

Is it true? I didn't see the documents but normally the guy was not telling BS stories. So be careful of what you are doing. 

I know its not legal or binding, only ceremonial. Just saying if legal marriage wasn't favorable a village wedding may do. I for eg wouldn't consider a legal marriage because I will be eligible for a pension in 5 years (if they still exist!). If I married a Thai women even outside of Australia my pension would be reduced by 30%. On the other hand as stated if he wanted to protect as least some of his investment in a house here...legal marriage may be the way to go. If your saying a village wedding with no signatures can me construed as a legal agreement / marriage I really doubt it and first time I've heard about it in ten years. Sounds more like he says she says but if it was an issue wouldn't cost a lot to ask a lawyer

Edited December 21, 2022 by Kenny202

[brewsterbudgen]

6 hours ago, carlyai said:

2 Points on this topic.

1. I recently went to  Thai wedding where both are working, one as a large truck driver and one as a secretary.

Mum was given Baht and gold, about 1 Million Baht altogether.

2. My 80 year old Thai BIL just hooked up with a 75 year old girl. 

Paid her B100000.

So it's not just the Farangs that have to pay.

For sure.  Thais pay as it's part of their culture; farangs pay if they want to participate in a Thai cultural tradition.  I would imagine it's far less common these days anyway, and the money is usually just for 'show' anyway.

[carlyai]

5 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

For sure.  Thais pay as it's part of their culture; farangs pay if they want to participate in a Thai cultural tradition.  I would imagine it's far less common these days anyway, and the money is usually just for 'show' anyway.

Maybe some for show. Who knows how much is redonated to the union.

Twas talking to my mate in Bali about it and he suggested it should be like Papua New Guinea where they just give pigs. ????

[Kenny202]

Just now, carlyai said:

Maybe some for show. Who knows how much is redonated to the union.

Twas talking to my mate in Bali about it and he suggested it should be like Papua New Guinea where they just give pigs. ????

Mate of mine...and this is a mate of a mate story so can't confirm....but reckons in PNG the groom has to sleep with the sisters and mother. And if you think that sounds appealing you have never seen a PNG woman lol

[Kenny202]

1 minute ago, carlyai said:

Maybe some for show. Who knows how much is redonated to the union.

Twas talking to my mate in Bali about it and he suggested it should be like Papua New Guinea where they just give pigs. ????

I have heard of blokes putting 1 or 2 mill on the table as show money and expecting to get it back after the wedding. From experience, I am pretty sure I could never be that trusting, particularly with a village family

[ed strong]

If you're taking the bread winner away from the family, especially if she has children and the grand parents look after it, then of course they need some money from you.

 

Opposing any type of sin sod, is kinda like going to Qatar and wearing a lgbqt shirt just because you wear one in your own country. Its disrepectfull and you are going against local traditions.

 

I found out the hard way about disrepsecting Thais if they have any sort of nouse about them they will bleed you dry.

Edited December 21, 2022 by ed strong

[thailand49]

Your topic is the typical one!

It depends when it was said their facial expression,  body language.

 

It is not as humorous as you think when it escalated what was your reaction of GF,  

 

It might be funny now unless you plan to leave or thinking it isn't a problem?????

 

[Skallywag]

8 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

"... and how many kilograms of gold?".

It is "baht gold" in Thailand.  How long have you been in country?  Never seen a gold shop? 

Best not to marry unless you are having a child together. 

As someone said above , only invest what you can walk away from.  

Since this was just something your "girlfriend" brought up or her family brought up, really makes no difference as you did not state you are engaged or planning on marrying.

Maybe learn some Thai as well.  

Have peace and be kind.  ????

[cocoonclub]

11 minutes ago, ed strong said:

Opposing any type of sin sod, is kinda like going to Qatar and wearing a lgbqt shirt just because you wear one in your own country. Its disrepectfull and you are going against local traditions.

That’s nonsense, of course. Not all Thais are poor villagers who care about Sinsod. 
 

I‘m glad my gf rolls her eyes about these antique traditions. Otherwise I would run. 

[Skallywag]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

On the other hand as stated if he wanted to protect as least some of his investment in a house here...legal marriage may be the way to go

I disagree.  Thai wife will get the house.  "legal" marriage in Thailand means everything you had or have is now property of your Thai wife....here in Thailand. AFAIK.

 

As someone said above, never invest more than you can walk away from.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Skallywag

[Kenny202]

The problem here is they expect to go from the Shet house to the Penthouse in one leap. I have never seen people that come from such a poor, hard back ground be so entitled and lazy. Not all of course but a great many. I been here a long time and lived in a few villages and it remains a mystery to me. They don't want a better life....they want it all and everyday...and for ever. That's usually when the trouble starts when the assets are already all in her name and the husband tries to be responsible and put's her on a budget. Noooooooo!

 

As a regular poster here mentioned here not so long ago, it is a carrot and stick arrangement. You give em the carrot and it's often game over

[Kenny202]

1 minute ago, Skallywag said:

I disagree.  Thai wife will get the house.  "legal" marriage in Thailand means everything you had or have is now property of your Thai wife....here in Thailand. AFAIK.

 

As someone said above, never invest more than you can walk away with.

No, 100% wrong. They are entitled to 50% of what was attained after the marriage. This could be brought into question if you don't have receipts etc of valuable items to prove you had them before the marriage. And the husband is also entitled to 50%. Unfortunately, often in practice the selling of the home and getting your 50% can be unrealistic or a battle in itself, particularly if the home is in a poor village and difficult to sell. A lot of behind the scenes manipulating can be done to block or falsify a sale at a very low price. And in many cases who wants to live in the exes home village where the relatives may make life difficult. Its could to know you have it up your sleeve as leverage I guess but I think most blokes simply move on and write off the experience

[youreavinalaff]

8 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I would give nothing to no one.  

So, you would give something to someone?

[Elkski]

It seems important what the OP:s future wife replied when they asked for 2 million baht.     I plan to give close to nothing.   Lucky my wife is a frugal person with our and my money.  

[prakhonchai nick]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

There is of course another fine option: Don't marry!

If you like have the same girlfriend for years or even your whole life.

If she loves you, then she will stay with you. 

Thats what i did. Just live together. But when I realised after 2/3 years that there was no UK DWP Bereavement benefits, nor occupational pension for a partner or children (we had 1 then), we popped down to the amphur and regstered a marriage. No family no nothing. Offered to take Mum out for a meal in the evening but she declined.

 

That was 21 years ago......still together, Now no DWP Bereavement benefits whether married or not, whilst partners are now eligible for occupational pensions!