More refreshing (and surprising) honesty from mainstream media.

[rattlesnake]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

She endorsed them, she linked to them, she works for them. They form part of her personal submission. I'm done with your deflection for your own personal agenda.

Since officialising her vaccine injury, Dr Phelps has never said the benefits of the Covid vaccines far outweighed the risks for the vast majority of people.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

Since officialising her vaccine injury, Dr Phelps has never said the benefits of the Covid vaccines far outweighed the risks for the vast majority of people.

I have provided evidence and links to that already you dismiss it. Typical conspiracy theorist.

[rattlesnake]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

I have provided evidence and links to that already you dismiss it. Typical conspiracy theorist.

You haven't, and you obviously don't appreciate it when the rules you so dearly cherish apply to you.

[owl sees all]

On 12/21/2022 at 5:55 PM, Eleftheros said:

Those who can't claim that because their fingerprints are too obvious will peddle the line that they had been "acting in our best interests all along."

 

Just following the science.

 

Dear me!

[Bkk Brian]

15 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

You haven't, and you obviously don't appreciate it when the rules you so dearly cherish apply to you.

Please don't talk to me about rules

 

"However, she still strongly supports Covid vaccination as the benefits far outweighed the risks for the vast majority of people."

 

"Available vaccines lower the risk of hospitalization and death"

 

The aim of this position statement is to  reinforce the importance of COVID-19 vaccination, and of remaining up to date in line with the ATAGI recommended vaccination schedule, and of supporting global vaccine equity

[rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Please don't talk to me about rules

 

"However, she still strongly supports Covid vaccination as the benefits far outweighed the risks for the vast majority of people."

 

"Available vaccines lower the risk of hospitalization and death"

 

The aim of this position statement is to  reinforce the importance of COVID-19 vaccination, and of remaining up to date in line with the ATAGI recommended vaccination schedule, and of supporting global vaccine equity

Details on the links you posted:

 

"However, she still strongly supports Covid vaccination as the benefits far outweighed the risks for the vast majority of people."

Unsubstantiated statement by a Daily Mail journalist.

 

"Available vaccines lower the risk of hospitalization and death"

Excerpt of an article by Dan H. Barouch published in the New England Journal of Medecine on 15 September 2022, cited in an OzSAGE publication on Long Covid.

 

"Available vaccines lower the risk of hospitalization and death"

Excerpt from an OzSAGE publication on the importance of Covid vaccination.

 

OzSAGE is a multi-disciplinary network of Australian experts from a broad range of sectors relevant to the well-being of the Australian population during and after the COVID-19 pandemic.

 

Kerryn Phelps is a member of OzSAGE and initially endorsed their pro-vaccination stance, however she has just made an about-face in a submission to parliament, in which she revealed her devastating vaccine injuries and the censorship on this matter.

 

Since this submission, Dr Phelps has not reiterated her previous statements on vaccine safety.

 

Others are now starting to speak up about this issue. From the article in the OP:

 

“Inspired by [Dr Kerryn Phelps] today I want to say I too have been in a living hell with pericarditis because of the Covid vaccine,” ABC News presenter Eleni Roussos wrote on Twitter. “Vaccine injuries are real and serious and I sincerely hope more people will speak up.”

Edited December 24, 2022 by rattlesnake

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

Details on the links you posted:

 

"However, she still strongly supports Covid vaccination as the benefits far outweighed the risks for the vast majority of people."

Unsubstantiated statement by a Daily Mail journalist.

 

You literally just posted an article to the daily Express.....lol

Just now, rattlesnake said:

"Available vaccines lower the risk of hospitalization and death"

Excerpt of an article by Dan H. Barouch published in the New England Journal of Medecine on 15 September 2022, cited in an OzSAGE publication on Long Covid.

 

"Available vaccines lower the risk of hospitalization and death"

Excerpt from an OzSAGE publication on the importance of Covid vaccination.

 

Which she endorsed in her submission

[Eleftheros]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

 

Just following the science.

 

Dear me!

As the saying goes, we need to know what tunes the devil is playing.

[ViajeroLA]

On 12/21/2022 at 4:05 PM, ozimoron said:

1. It's against forum rules to bold print.

LOL! That's a perfect reply to illustrate the stuff the topic starter posted. Guess you were wearing a cloth on your face all this time and probably still are? And I wouldn't even ask about the vaccination status ????

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Since officialising her vaccine injury, Dr Phelps has never said the benefits of the Covid vaccines far outweighed the risks for the vast majority of people.

.From Dr. Kerryn Phelps

‘Not anti-vaxxers’: Dr Kerryn Phelps says she suffered COVID vaccine injury, calls for more research

By Rachel Clun
Updated December 20, 2022 — 6.40pmfirst published at 6.28pm

“We are facing a catastrophic toll of disability due to long COVID with broad implications for families, community, the health system, the workforce, the economy and all levels of government,” she said in her submission.

“People who are suffering from long COVID, people who are medically vulnerable despite vaccination and people who are unable to have further vaccines are bearing an unfair burden of the pandemic as it is allowed to spread through the community in the absence of effective public health measures.”

Phelps said the ongoing pandemic response could not be a vaccine-only approach, and needed to include better ventilation at schools, a zero transmission approach for hospitals, mandatory isolation periods, access to better masks, and improved public health messaging."

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/not-anti-vaxxers-dr-kerryn-phelps-says-she-suffered-covid-vaccine-injury-calls-for-more-research-20221220-p5c7ry.html

[rattlesnake]

34 minutes ago, placeholder said:

.From Dr. Kerryn Phelps

‘Not anti-vaxxers’: Dr Kerryn Phelps says she suffered COVID vaccine injury, calls for more research

By Rachel Clun
Updated December 20, 2022 — 6.40pmfirst published at 6.28pm

“We are facing a catastrophic toll of disability due to long COVID with broad implications for families, community, the health system, the workforce, the economy and all levels of government,” she said in her submission.

“People who are suffering from long COVID, people who are medically vulnerable despite vaccination and people who are unable to have further vaccines are bearing an unfair burden of the pandemic as it is allowed to spread through the community in the absence of effective public health measures.”

Phelps said the ongoing pandemic response could not be a vaccine-only approach, and needed to include better ventilation at schools, a zero transmission approach for hospitals, mandatory isolation periods, access to better masks, and improved public health messaging."

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/not-anti-vaxxers-dr-kerryn-phelps-says-she-suffered-covid-vaccine-injury-calls-for-more-research-20221220-p5c7ry.html

Does she say the benefits far outweigh the risks?

 

Excerpts from Dr Phelps' submission:

"Vaccine injury is a subject that few in the medical profession have wanted to talk about.
Regulators of the medical profession have censored public discussion about adverse events
following immunisation, with threats to doctors not to make any public statements about
anything that “might undermine the government’s vaccine rollout” or risk suspension or
loss of their registration."

 

"In trying to convince people in positions of influence to pay attention to the risks of Long
COVID and reinfection for people with vaccine injury, I have personally been met with
obstruction and resistance to openly discuss this issue. There has been a delay in
recognition of vaccine injury, partly because of under-reporting, concerns about vaccine
hesitancy in the context of managing a global pandemic, and needing to find the balance
between risks and benefits on a population level."

[placeholder]

 

7 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Does she say the benefits far outweigh the risks?

 

Excerpts from Dr Phelps' submission:

"Vaccine injury is a subject that few in the medical profession have wanted to talk about.
Regulators of the medical profession have censored public discussion about adverse events
following immunisation, with threats to doctors not to make any public statements about
anything that “might undermine the government’s vaccine rollout” or risk suspension or
loss of their registration."

 

"In trying to convince people in positions of influence to pay attention to the risks of Long
COVID and reinfection for people with vaccine injury, I have personally been met with
obstruction and resistance to openly discuss this issue. There has been a delay in
recognition of vaccine injury, partly because of under-reporting, concerns about vaccine
hesitancy in the context of managing a global pandemic, and needing to find the balance
between risks and benefits on a population level."

Oh please. She said it shouldn't be a vaccine only response. That additional measures are necessary. If she opposed vaccination, why would she say it shouldn't be vaccines only? She would say it shouldn't be vaccines at all. Or she wouldn't mention them. But mention them she does as part of a list of things that should be done.

[ozimoron]

16 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Does she say the benefits far outweigh the risks?

 

Excerpts from Dr Phelps' submission:

"Vaccine injury is a subject that few in the medical profession have wanted to talk about.
Regulators of the medical profession have censored public discussion about adverse events
following immunisation, with threats to doctors not to make any public statements about
anything that “might undermine the government’s vaccine rollout” or risk suspension or
loss of their registration."

 

"In trying to convince people in positions of influence to pay attention to the risks of Long
COVID and reinfection for people with vaccine injury, I have personally been met with
obstruction and resistance to openly discuss this issue. There has been a delay in
recognition of vaccine injury, partly because of under-reporting, concerns about vaccine
hesitancy in the context of managing a global pandemic, and needing to find the balance
between risks and benefits on a population level."

If she doesn't think so why did she have the vaccine?

[rattlesnake]

17 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

Oh please. She said it shouldn't be a vaccine only response. That additional measures are necessary. If she opposed vaccination, why would she say it shouldn't be vaccines only? She would say it shouldn't be vaccines at all. Or she wouldn't mention them. But mention them she does as part of a list of things that should be done.

I agree, she said it shouldn't be a vaccine-only response. Excerpt:

"Many of my colleagues warned about an over reliance on a “vaccines-only strategy” when it
became apparent that high levels of vaccinations were not going to be sufficient to contain
the pandemic or prevent long-term damage."

 

A distinct step forward from the "vaccines are the only way" doxa and its corollaries such as mandates and persecution of the unvaxxed, which lots of members of this forum partook in.

[rattlesnake]

27 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

If she doesn't think so why did she have the vaccine?

There is a thing called changing one's mind, that's what Dr Phelps underwent and I am confident you will too in due time.

[ozimoron]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

There is a thing called changing one's mind, that's what Dr Phelps underwent and I am confident you will too in due time.

Not a chance. I've had 4 shots without side effects and had covid once. I attribute the fact that I am still alive to the vaccines. Just like millions of other people.

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

I agree, she said it shouldn't be a vaccine-only response. Excerpt:

"Many of my colleagues warned about an over reliance on a “vaccines-only strategy” when it
became apparent that high levels of vaccinations were not going to be sufficient to contain
the pandemic or prevent long-term damage."

 

A distinct step forward from the "vaccines are the only way" doxa and its corollaries such as mandates and persecution of the unvaxxed, which lots of members of this forum partook in.

This is, of course, nonsense. It was anti vaxxers who consistently downplayed the threat of covid and protested against the other steps that Kerryn Phelps recommended including better mask,, zero transmission at hospitals, and mandatory isolation. One has only to look at the political campaigns of various conservative candidates in the USA (and their supporters higher mortality rates) to see the difference.

[Eleftheros]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Not a chance. I've had 4 shots without side effects and had covid once. I attribute the fact that I am still alive to the vaccines. Just like millions of other people.

Why would you go and get 4 shots after having covid and getting past it? Natural immunity is still easily the best defense against the disease.

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

This is, of course, nonsense. It was anti vaxxers who consistently downplayed the threat of covid and protested against the other steps that Kerryn Phelps recommended including better mask,, zero transmission at hospitals, and mandatory isolation. One has only to look at the political campaigns of various conservative candidates in the USA (and their supporters higher mortality rates) to see the difference.

The anti vaxxers fail to observe that Kerryn is a zero covid proponent, she has some interesting re tweets and endorsements on her twitter feed. Additionally her personal submission includes:

 

"This is an exceptional virus and it continues to circulate in the Australian community. I will leave it to the virologists to explain why it is exceptional from a virology point of view, but emerging information on long COVID tells us that we should be proceeding with far greater caution, as this virus is starting to demonstrate the extent of the risk of long-term effects on the body especially the immune system, lungs, brain, and cardiovascular system."

“Learning to live with the virus” is some dystopian term that has been generated to deceive the population into carrying on as usual. Until they can’t. Medically vulnerable people will be further disenfranchised and marginalised, forced to live in relative isolation. As more people become infected and reinfected, there will be more cases of Long COVID leading to widespread long-term disability and more medically vulnerable people who should not be forced to take an increased risk of reinfection because public health has failed them.

  The organisation of which I am a member, OzSAGE, produced a position statement IMPORTANCE OF COVID-19 VACCINATION & DEVELOPMENT OF BETTER SYSTEMS FOR MANAGEMENT OF UNCOMMON SUBSEQUENT ADVERSE EVENTS"

[Eleftheros]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

This is an exceptional virus and it continues to circulate in the Australian community.

Yes, it is an exceptional virus. Even the spike protein, the bit that enables it to get into human cells, has been shown to be a cytotoxin which damages cells, even ignoring the effects of the rest of the virus.

 

Why, then, were the mRNA "vaccines" designed and formulated to trick the human body into creating exactly that same toxic spike protein inside its own cells? That's the question that needs answering.

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Yes, it is an exceptional virus. Even the spike protein, the bit that enables it to get into human cells, has been shown to be a cytotoxin which damages cells, even ignoring the effects of the rest of the virus.

 

Why, then, were the mRNA "vaccines" designed and formulated to trick the human body into creating exactly that same toxic spike protein inside its own cells? That's the question that needs answering.

You ignore the rules regarding links to substantiation which reveals that your claims are suspect. Meanwhile, a ten second search debunks your claim.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-cytotoxic-idUSL2N2O01XP

[xylophone]

15 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You ignore the rules regarding links to substantiation which reveals that your claims are suspect. Meanwhile, a ten second search debunks your claim.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-cytotoxic-idUSL2N2O01XP

Dealing with these anti-VAX nut jobs with their unsubstantiated claims is becoming very wearing, and I know because I've got a couple of friends in NZ who were spouting the same nonsense from various YouTube sites and the like, that is until I told them to desist or I would cut them off completely.

 

In my lifetime (and I'm 75 years old now) I don't ever recall seeing such unsubstantiated nonsense regarding anything, let alone medical matters, and most times now I just skip over the nonsense – – I wonder why these people are so hellbent on repeating lies and nonsense??

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Dealing with these anti-VAX nut jobs with their unsubstantiated claims is becoming very wearing, and I know because I've got a couple of friends in NZ who were spouting the same nonsense from various YouTube sites and the like, that is until I told them to desist or I would cut them off completely.

 

In my lifetime (and I'm 75 years old now) I don't ever recall seeing such unsubstantiated nonsense regarding anything, let alone medical matters, and most times now I just skip over the nonsense – – I wonder why these people are so hellbent on repeating lies and nonsense??

https://www.nepsy.com/articles/leading-stories/what-is-mass-formation-psychosis-is-it-like-mass-hysteria-or-mass-delusion/

 

some background on Malone.

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/96633

 

Chris Cocking, Principal Lecturer at the School of Humanities and Applied Social Sciences at the University of Brighton, told Reuters that a preferred way to explain crowd action was in terms of “shared identities, relations between different groups and leadership influence”.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-psychology-idUSL1N2TN1RE

 

 

[Eleftheros]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You ignore the rules regarding links to substantiation which reveals that your claims are suspect. Meanwhile, a ten second search debunks your claim.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-cytotoxic-idUSL2N2O01XP

A ten-second search pretty much sums it up.

 

That a "fact-checker" says it is no indication of it being true; most times it is an indication of the opposite.

 

Plenty of organisations have stated that the spike protein is cytotoxic, as you would have discovered if you had spent more than 10 seconds on the search. You would have found the Journal of Biomedical Sciences, for example, which notes:

 

 This study shows the effect of Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), one of the drugs currently under investigation for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) treatment, on the cytotoxicity caused by spike proteins.

 

The first step of the viral replication cycle, attachment to the surface of respiratory cells, is mediated by the spike viral protein. It sets off a sequence of reactions that would eventually lead to viral spread and cell death.

 

Or you could have scanned the NIH Library of Medicine, which contains many articles on the same theme, one of which notes:

 

 One paper reported that certain antibodies in the blood of infected patients appear to change the shape of the spike protein so as to make it more likely to bind to cells, while other papers showed that the spike protein by itself (without being part of the corona virus) can damage endothelial cells and disrupt the blood-brain barrier.

 

There's plenty of information out there, but if you restrict yourself to 10-second searches for "fact-checkers" you will never find it. Or is that the intention?

 

 

 

[gargamon]

19 hours ago, owl sees all said:

My research goes back 2k years.

Please explain your definition of "research". As an actual scientist with letters after my name to prove it, I believe I would have a very different definition.

 

I suspect your definition would consist of finding some site on the internet that has info that concurs with your preconceived view of the world. Goes back 2000 years? Obviously you are referring to the bible, the biggest book of fiction ever concocted. 

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Dealing with these anti-VAX nut jobs with their unsubstantiated claims is becoming very wearing, and I know because I've got a couple of friends in NZ who were spouting the same nonsense from various YouTube sites and the like, that is until I told them to desist or I would cut them off completely.

 

In my lifetime (and I'm 75 years old now) I don't ever recall seeing such unsubstantiated nonsense regarding anything, let alone medical matters, and most times now I just skip over the nonsense – – I wonder why these people are so hellbent on repeating lies and nonsense??

It sounds as though you could be a stick-in-the-mud as far as research goes. Prefer to stick to the 'official line' do we? You are perhaps still in the majority; but for how long?

 

They called people that doubted the JFK tragedy; Conspiracy Theorists' (CPs). And a similar label was given to those that doubted the men walked on the moon. Princess Di died a nasty death, as did David Kelly.

 

A couple of million people demonstrated about the Iraq war. Were they all CPs? Perhaps someone made something up? Or did one particular country get a little upset cause Saddam started selling oil in Euroes and not dollars? Didn't Libya do the same later on?

 

The BBC was broadcasting that Building 7 was down, when behind the newscaster it could easily be seen intact. Are there still people that believe that a man in a cave, with no internet access could orchestrate 9/11? Are there?

 

The Times of Israel were told, and published as much, in November 2019, that a pandemic was on the way.

 

Covid started in a lab. No! It jumped from bats. No! It jumped from pangolins. No! It's a relative of viruses of the past. Anyone that thinks differently is a CP. No virus has been shown to be pathogenic though. Can't even isolate the thing.

 

Perhaps some should learn to see things from other perspectives. And although it is difficult, keep friendly with those who do see things differently. For they could well have a view worth listening to, and find themselves on the right side of history later on. Maybe not that much further on either.

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by owl sees all

[xylophone]

3 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

It sounds as though you could be a stick-in-the-mud as far as research goes. Prefer to stick to the 'official line' do we? You are perhaps still in the majority; but for how long?

 

They called people that doubted the JFK tragedy; Conspiracy Theorists' (CPs). And a similar label was given to those that doubted the men walked on the moon. Princess Di died a nasty death, as did David Kelly.

 

A couple of million people demonstrated about the Iraq war. Were they all CPs? Perhaps someone made something up? Or did one particular country get a little upset cause Saddam started selling oil in Euroes and not dollars? Didn't Libya do the same later on?

 

The BBC was broadcasting that Building 7 was down, when behind the newscaster it could easily be seen intact. Are there still people that believe that a man in a cave, with no internet access could orchestrate 9/11? There are; the CPs.

 

The Times of Israel were told, and published, in November 2019, that a pandemic was on the way.

 

Covid started in a lab. No! It jumped from bats. No! It jumped from pangolins. No! It's a relative of viruses of the past. Anyone that thinks differently is a CP. No virus has been shown to be pathogenic though. Can't even isolate the thing.

 

Perhaps some should learn to see things from other perspectives. And although it is difficult, keep friendly with those who do see things differently. For they could well have a view worth listening to, and find themselves on the right side of history later on. Maybe not that much further on either.

 

Just more nonsense from someone who obviously doesn't "see all".

 

And yes, men did walk on the moon! Surprised??

 

I believe in facts and that won't change, and as regards the medical research, I believe the doctors, scientists, institutions and research facilities which support us, and I note the following: –

 

"the vaccine is nothing special. Nearly 10 billion doses have been administered in the past year and no widespread, large-scale, or long-term side effects having been noted. Yes, there are a tiny minority of people who have side effects, some of which are indeed concerning — but nothing so large as to be concerned about on a population-wide scale.

We’ve had two centuries’ worth of data and experience supporting how vaccines work. Two centuries.
We know that if a vaccine has negative side effects or other issues of concern, they show up within a few weeks of administration. This is not surprising, because unlike a medication, a vaccine is only active within a person’s body for a short period of time. It’s basic job is to pass along instructions to your body’s immune system so that it knows what to look for and how to mount a future defense against infection".
 

[owl sees all]

7 minutes ago, xylophone said:

"the vaccine is nothing special. Nearly 10 billion doses have been administered in the past year and no widespread, large-scale, or long-term side effects having been noted. Yes, there are a tiny minority of people who have side effects, some of which are indeed concerning — but nothing so large as to be concerned about on a population-wide scale.

We’ve had two centuries’ worth of data and experience supporting how vaccines work. Two centuries.
We know that if a vaccine has negative side effects or other issues of concern, they show up within a few weeks of administration. This is not surprising, because unlike a medication, a vaccine is only active within a person’s body for a short period of time. It’s basic job is to pass along instructions to your body’s immune system so that it knows what to look for and how to mount a future defense against infection".

 

I don't agree with the content of your post.

 

And No! I don't think men have walked on the moon. Or the sun for that matter; far too hot. But could we go in the winter when it's cooler?

Edited December 25, 2022 by owl sees all

[placeholder]

15 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

I agree, she said it shouldn't be a vaccine-only response. Excerpt:

"Many of my colleagues warned about an over reliance on a “vaccines-only strategy” when it
became apparent that high levels of vaccinations were not going to be sufficient to contain
the pandemic or prevent long-term damage."

 

A distinct step forward from the "vaccines are the only way" doxa and its corollaries such as mandates and persecution of the unvaxxed, which lots of members of this forum partook in.

Wrong. She isn't  saying vaccination isn't the only way. She's saying that vaccination is not enough. That additional measures are necessary. She sure as shootin' wouldn't say it's okay for unvaccinated people to be working in hospitals.

 

3 hours ago, Eleftheros said:

A ten-second search pretty much sums it up.

 

That a "fact-checker" says it is no indication of it being true; most times it is an indication of the opposite.

 

Plenty of organisations have stated that the spike protein is cytotoxic, as you would have discovered if you had spent more than 10 seconds on the search. You would have found the Journal of Biomedical Sciences, for example, which notes:

 

 This study shows the effect of Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), one of the drugs currently under investigation for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) treatment, on the cytotoxicity caused by spike proteins.

 

The first step of the viral replication cycle, attachment to the surface of respiratory cells, is mediated by the spike viral protein. It sets off a sequence of reactions that would eventually lead to viral spread and cell death.

Here's the conclusion cited in the abstract:

.Conclusion: The general consensus among all the assays, was either inconclusive or in support of the idea that the presence of HCQ mitigates the cytotoxic effect of SARS-S-2; With the added caveat that HCQ on it’s own was cytotoxic in it’s own right.  In the future one could follow up on this study with alternate combinations of drugs like Remdesivir or Camostat Mesylate.

 

It seems the author of the piece starts with the assumption that the spike protein is cytotoxic. Not that he's establishing that.

Edited December 25, 2022 by placeholder

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

And No! I don't think men have walked on the moon

Ah, true conspiracy theory colours shown........no need for any more interchange with you, so on to ignore you go. Happy conspiracy theories.