Ukraine war: Zelensky's visit shows neither Ukraine nor US want peace, Russia says

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, riclag said:

Do you think Mr Z  is setting a side any , how ever small ,of the billions he already got from the world for rebuilding . Me thinks not.

Baseless innuendo.

 

You’ve got nothing else.

[Salerno]

34 minutes ago, Saanim said:

No promise except the "not one inch eastwards"...

People still peddling that propaganda chestnut? That quote is in relation to the former East Germany, nothing more.

 

“The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”
Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev (2014)

 

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Salerno
added quote

[The Theory]

Always, there must be a war somewhere. 
not in Iraq, in Afghanistan, not in Afghanistan, in Ukraine. It seems there is not much in middle east anymore since war is moving to Europe.  Perhaps next war will pop from Serbia. Putin was stupid just like Saddam to start a war that will not finished in his favor. The word need 2 super power, sorry Russia you are already replaced with China. It is just a matter of time, Russia will be out of picture. 
 

[riclag]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Adding a question mark doesn't give the comment any more credence. No, I don't think he's setting aside a single razoo to build the country. He's spending every cent on fighting the orcs.

 

You alleged Zelensky is corrupt but now you deflect and can't won't put a link where your mouth is.

Did not allege that ! Your sadly mistaken!! Goodnight

[MrJ2U]

Russian will be destroyed due to the psychopaths who run it and the mostly inept and uneducated population. 

 

Good riddance!

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, riclag said:

You misunderstood ! My bad! I should’ve put a question mark .Do you think he is setting aside any funds for his county to rebuild?Nothing nefarious or right  wing about saving money for the country’s future! 
 

 

Do ya think just maybe that when a country is under threat of extinction, it really has money to spare for anything but survival?

[Tug]

7 hours ago, malathione said:

Exactly so. Ukraine is going to need a massive rebuilding effort once all is said and done.

 

As for the hashtag, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAFO_(group). I hope that does not contravene any AN posting guidelines. 

I’m sure many of the frozen Russian assets will be utilized to rebuild Ukraine along with help from the eu and the United States not to mention the courageous Ukrainians and as a side hope changes in Russia so they can rejoin the world and repair what their evil dwarf has wrought 

[rudi49jr]

5 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

I live in a fact based world.

 

He was a lawyer first, then comedian who had his own TV production company with series sales to Netflix and other networks.

 

Even with the Pandora allegations he has no where near that figure.

 

Fake: Zelensky’s Fortune Estimated at $850 Million

There is absolutely no evidence that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has a net worth of $850 million. According to several authoritative sources, Zelensky’s combined fortune could amount to some $20-25 million.

Citing the Dutch right-wing populist Forum for Democracy party as their source, Russian media are claiming that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky may have a net worth of $850 million. Russian propagandist publications RIA Novosti, RT, Krasnaya Vesna, Argumenty I Fakty and others are all disseminating this story. Representatives of the Forum for Democracy Party who are close to the Kremlin are also claiming without any evidence, that Zelensky earned most of his money after becoming  president.

https://www.stopfake.org/en/fake-zelensky-s-fortune-estimated-at-850-million/

 

 

If you live in a fact based world prove your claims.

“Citing the Dutch right-wing populist Forum for Democracy party”
 

I am Dutch. This Forum for Democracy party is way past ‘right-wing populist’. They have gone full-on fascist, racist and anti-semite. The leader of this party said that he is a big fan of Putin, and that the war Putin started against Ukraine (and the West) is one of the most hopeful things in the world today.

Just to give you an idea of the la-la-land these lunatics from Forum for Democracy live in.

[Saanim]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

You have a habit of editing my posts, next time you do it, it will be reported

It will be reported? By you? Please do it. Then, you would only need to prove where and how I edited your post(s) - with my habit...  (any argument or even a fact?)

[ozimoron]

Wall Street Journal scorches Republicans who have turned on Ukraine

 

"GOP leader Kevin McCarthy has said he doesn’t support 'a blank check' for Ukraine, as if anyone does, and concerns over how the money is spent are now a central GOP objection," wrote the board.

 

Economist Timothy Ash wrote in November that Ukraine aid is 'an incredibly cost-effective investment,' burning up Russia’s military power for a single-digit share of the Pentagon’s annual budget, though Moscow is one of America’s most formidable adversaries."

 

"Many of the same Republicans sneering at Mr. Zelensky will claim the U.S. needs to abandon Ukraine to focus on China," the board concluded.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/wsj-scorches-republicans-who-have-turned-on-ukraine/

Edited December 23, 2022 by ozimoron

[Scott]

Post reported and removed.

 

[IAMHERE]

16 hours ago, malathione said:

Exactly so. Ukraine is going to need a massive rebuilding effort once all is said and done

I wonder how much that is going to cost America. 

[malathione]

17 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

I wonder how much that is going to cost America. 

I wonder how much America saves via a proxy war. Also do you not think American companies will have a hand in earnings from reconstruction just as they do from this little war?

 

As to how much it costs, at the end of the day, that's the price we pay to maintain our position. 

[IAMHERE]

7 minutes ago, malathione said:

As to how much it costs, at the end of the day, that's the price we pay to maintain our position. 

USA could change it's position. Get back to pre WW1 doctrine. Protect our hemisphere and leave the Europeans/Asian/Africa to themselves. The Americas are our true area of influence, isolationism is better than trying to remake the world in our image. 

[Jingthing]

This is already a big war but if it stays in Ukraine, think Marshall Plan 2.0 with Europe playing a major role. 

Of course if Russia wins, it'll be on them, but they don't care about the people there so Russia better not win. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

USA could change it's position. Get back to pre WW1 doctrine. Protect our hemisphere and leave the Europeans/Asian/Africa to themselves. The Americas are our true area of influence, isolationism is better than trying to remake the world in our image. 

Nope.

[hotchilli]

On 12/23/2022 at 5:28 AM, webfact said:

Russia has strongly criticised the visit to Washington by Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky, accusing the US of fighting an indirect war against it.

Uhmmmmm.. who invaded who?

[metisdead]

A post that was knowingly off topic and a reply has been removed.

[Stargeezr]

Considering that Vlad Putin was a KGB guy in the past, how can the Russian believe anything that he says.

 

  It is also a shame that the rich and filth rich Russians are not letting their friends know the truth about this invasion of another country by Russia. The BS story about some Nazi type of a person should be realized by all people including the Russians. I for one am hoping that this war ends soon, and, I doubt it will end if Putin is not taken from power in some way. Just saying. IMO

Edited December 24, 2022 by Scott

[eisfeld]

6 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

USA could change it's position. Get back to pre WW1 doctrine. Protect our hemisphere and leave the Europeans/Asian/Africa to themselves.

How can you protect "your" hemisphere and at the same time ignore wars within that hemisphere? You do realize that USA, Europe, China, Russia etc are all within the same hemisphere, right?

[Rimmer]

off topic has been removed.

[generealty]

  On 12/23/2022 at 6:20 PM, generealty said:

OK interesting and if true I hold my hands up and say I have read wrong info. good to be corrected sometimes.

The questions, remains, though, who was the source of this information, and why did you believe it?  It's the kind of number that should arouse at least a bit of scepticism. 

 

Well there are many articles out there. I have read 3 separate Forbes articles each claiming a different amounts, also stating that he has money invested overseas - what ever that insinuates. So does any of us really know. Some state $110million others state higher so if it is only $20million, it is confusing why Forbes - to mention just one, cannot give reasonably accurate total. There are many articles all conflicting, and as stated I have read 3 different figures from Forbes alone. But as a mere mortal, I hold my hands up and state that I am happy to be corrected.

[Eric Loh]

28 minutes ago, generealty said:

  On 12/23/2022 at 6:20 PM, generealty said:

OK interesting and if true I hold my hands up and say I have read wrong info. good to be corrected sometimes.

The questions, remains, though, who was the source of this information, and why did you believe it?  It's the kind of number that should arouse at least a bit of scepticism. 

 

Well there are many articles out there. I have read 3 separate Forbes articles each claiming a different amounts, also stating that he has money invested overseas - what ever that insinuates. So does any of us really know. Some state $110million others state higher so if it is only $20million, it is confusing why Forbes - to mention just one, cannot give reasonably accurate total. There are many articles all conflicting, and as stated I have read 3 different figures from Forbes alone. But as a mere mortal, I hold my hands up and state that I am happy to be corrected.

There are lots of things we don’t know and they are lots of stuffs generated by Russian propagandists. What we know is that Zelensky is the reason as to why Russia has not overran and annexed Ukraine. He could have fled in days after the invasion as his army offered little resistance. He kept the country united and rallied the western allies against Russia aggression. That’s all I care at this moment. Other stuffs, not important for now. 

[jchfriis]

On 12/23/2022 at 3:16 PM, jingjai9 said:

In the early 1990s, didn't the west agree not to extend NATO membership toward Russia after the USSR fell?

The answer to that question is no. 

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

[Tug]

On 12/23/2022 at 3:09 PM, IAMHERE said:

I wonder how much that is going to cost America. 

No body knows that’s sure that beeing said so far it’s a bargain Russia has been humiliated and exposed as incompetent their weapons are sub par nato has been renewed as all can see how nessary it is and personally I feel we as Americans are contributing to a just cause

[Saanim]

37 minutes ago, jchfriis said:

The answer to that question is no. 

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

How the declassified archive documents see it: 

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

[Credo]

9 hours ago, Saanim said:

How the declassified archive documents see it: 

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

Ukraine is not a member of NATO and has not applied to be a member.   

 

[Saanim]

^ If searched for "inch" it brings 8 results in these few documents.  It surely needs to bring an Institute to belittle the inch, doesn't it? 

The promise of no no Eastwards expansion was the main trump offered to foolish Gorbachev, for his huge army retrieve, unprecedented in history. 

 

When I read it first time (being in Thailand) I could not believe it. There is surely something behind it, a hidden agenda?  Obviously it was one, but not of Gorbachev.

  

[Jingthing]

10 hours ago, Tug said:

No body knows that’s sure that beeing said so far it’s a bargain Russia has been humiliated and exposed as incompetent their weapons are sub par nato has been renewed as all can see how nessary it is and personally I feel we as Americans are contributing to a just cause

Yes.

Trump with his Putin's poodle act made me feel ashamed to be American just as many decent Russians are ashamed because of Putin.

Biden's leadership on Ukraine makes me feel proud.

Fighting the Nazis in WW2 was a just war.

Ukraine fighting the Putin Z genocidal fascists is similarly just.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Jingthing

[heybruce]

14 hours ago, Saanim said:

How the declassified archive documents see it: 

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

From your source:

 

"The documents reinforce former CIA Director Robert Gates’s criticism of “pressing ahead with expansion of NATO eastward [in the 1990s], when Gorbachev and others were led to believe that wouldn’t happen.”[1] The key phrase, buttressed by the documents, is “led to believe.”"

 

So maybe Russia was led to believe that NATO would not expand east, and maybe the west was led to believe that Russia would not threaten its neighbors.

 

The fact remains that the only countries that want to join NATO are the ones with legitimate fears of Russian aggression.