Germany set to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, Der Spiegel reports

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6 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I expect the Russians will now see Germans as legitimate targets in this war now that they have joined in weaponizing Ukraine. Are the German's merrily going about their business at home prepared to potentially be attacked? Have they thought this through properly?  Do they understand the full background to this war? I suspect the answer is no to all these questions.

 

 

I've got exciting news for you. Germany has already sent lots of weapons to Ukraine. 

Germany will supply Ukraine with armoured personnel carriers and a Patriot missile battery, the government has said...

Germany already has delivered significant military aid to Ukraine, including Gepard self-propelled anti-aircraft guns and the first of four IRIS-T surface-to-air missile systems.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/1/5/germany-to-send-armored-carriers-patriot-battery-to-ukraine

 

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1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The longer I read this thread the more I'm convinced that some on it get their ideas of war from movies. War is always messy and rarely goes the way it is intended. A large part of winning is down to blind luck, rather than intent.

As the Russians have learned much to their regret.

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1 hour ago, Mickeymaus said:

Then we could have a world war. I am not sure if you are aware of the consequences. Today's world is much more interconnected than during the last world wars. The economies of many countries would collapse because they need resources of other countries. This creates total chaos. And China might not watch this development without participating. Many people will lose everything. And you may no longer have internet and you may no longer be able to travel to Thailand.... Do you really want this? 

China? Really? They've hardly been steadfast allies to the Russians.

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42 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The West is digging a deeper whole in Ukraine...this decision is especially despicable on Germany's part considering its history in the last century. 

Despicable? Given Germany's brutal treatment of Slavic peoples during World War 2 and the runup to it, I would call their current support of Ukraine reparations.

Edited January 25, 2023 by placeholder

[bannork]

29 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

When?

A few days ago, I read an article about how long this will/would take.

Germany won't send the tanks which are currently used in their army. They will, if at all, send tanks from storage or ask the manufacturer to send tanks. This will take months - best case. 

 

[bannork]

 

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The West is digging a deeper whole in Ukraine...this decision is especially despicable on Germany's part considering its history in the last century. 

Anyone aware of the history of the first half of the last century and the part played in that by Germany will be aware of the inevitable results of appeasing regimes bent on aggressive moves against neighbouring states to "restore historical territories".

 

"I hold in my hand a piece of paper..."

 

"Peace in our time!"

 

"A far away country of which we know little."

 

"our last territorial claim in Europe!"

 

These are all phrases familiar to those aware of history in the last century.

[Pattaya Spotter]

44 minutes ago, bannork said:

What? Is Germany invading Russia? I must have misread the news.

What? Is Russia invading Germany (or any NATO country)? I must have misread the news.

[steven100]

I tend to agree with Northstar1's  comment ....

Let Russia accidently or on purpose land 1 rocket in a NATO country and then let NATO blow Moscow of the face of the earth before it has any chance of using their nuclear arsenal. 

That will end Putin & many other dispictable murderous cronies,  for the good of humanity get rid of them.

[Tug]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The West is digging a deeper whole in Ukraine...this decision is especially despicable on Germany's part considering its history in the last century. 

You do realize that Putin used hitlers verbatim excuse for invasion to protect the Russian speaking people so just stop it the west won’t abandon Ukraine ???????? the west will not tolerate a war of conquest especially in Europe the free world is providing Ukraine with the tools to protect its sielf slava Ukraine ???????? another poster said Germany is in a way making reparations I agree it’s kinda a karmic pay back if you will bless them for it they have come full circle 

[Pattaya Spotter]

23 minutes ago, Tug said:

You do realize that Putin used hitlers verbatim excuse for invasion to protect the Russian speaking people so just stop it the west won’t abandon Ukraine ???????? the west will not tolerate a war of conquest especially in Europe the free world is providing Ukraine with the tools to protect its sielf slava Ukraine ???????? another poster said Germany is in a way making reparations I agree it’s kinda a karmic pay back if you will bless them for it they have come full circle 

The hoary Putin is Hitler argument ???? 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The West is digging a deeper whole in Ukraine...this decision is especially despicable on Germany's part considering its history in the last century. 

The 20th Century provides us all with the precise example of  where appeasing a tyrant who invaded other nations leads.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[bannork]

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/ukraine-conflict/1674409784-morocco-gives-tanks-to-ukraine-report

[Chomper Higgot]

The alignment of rightwing arguments with the propaganda put out by Putin’s Russia across all threads discussing Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine is remarkable. 
 

It’s a thing.

[Chomper Higgot]

46 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

What? Is Russia invading Germany (or any NATO country)? I must have misread the news.

Not yet.

[BarraMarra]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What a stupid comment!

Just in case you missed it, Putin has nuclear weapons, a lot of them. What do you think he will do if "we dealt with this country once and for all"?

 

Your forgetting the west also has Nuclear, and if attacked Russia will be reduced to Cinders. As I stated there will be a Royal Navy Trident Submarine ready to launch on Russia in Range if needed. It will not be land-based so cannot be located underwater. S. I wouldn't be worried Thai Beach.

[steven100]

39 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

  It is almost getting to the point that NATO will have to sent it's own forces into this war? 

Lets hope so .....   then blow Russia of the earth.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

 

From the article: "Die Instandsetzung dieser Fahrzeuge würde ein knappes Jahr dauern. Eine Auslieferung wäre Ende 2023/Anfang 2024 möglich."

 

The preparation would take almost a year.

A delivery is possible end of 2023 or beginning of 2024.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

I tend to agree with Northstar1's  comment ....

Let Russia accidently or on purpose land 1 rocket in a NATO country and then let NATO blow Moscow of the face of the earth before it has any chance of using their nuclear arsenal. 

That will end Putin & many other dispictable murderous cronies,  for the good of humanity get rid of them.

It's bad enough when some people are ignorant or stupid.

But what the point of showing that to everybody?

But then again, stupid people don't know they are stupid.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, BarraMarra said:

Your forgetting the west also has Nuclear, and if attacked Russia will be reduced to Cinders. As I stated there will be a Royal Navy Trident Submarine ready to launch on Russia in Range if needed. It will not be land-based so cannot be located underwater. S. I wouldn't be worried Thai Beach.

It seems you think all people in war thing rationally. Here is a surprise for you: They don't!

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The hoary Putin is Hitler argument ???? 

Well there are some startling parallels.

 

Both started their political careers as agents observing and reporting on political movements (Putin for longer and at a higher level than Hitler)

 

Both rose to power using a flawed democratic system, their political appeal buoyed by an electorate resentful of what they saw as malign foreign and commercial interests.

 

Both once in power manipulated and removed checks and balances to effectively create a one party state. Both used thuggery and manipulated the courts to remove and suppress political opponents. Both maintained almost complete control of the press and media in their countries.

 

Both launched campaigns and subsequently operations to occupy neighbouring territories on the spurious grounds that they were historically theirs, and the ethnically related populations were being oppressed (Hitler Czechoslovakia and Austria, Putin Crimea and province's in Eastern Ukraine). Both, because they were successful subsequently launched major aggressive wars to destroy neighbouring countries. Both in the process disregarded treaties safeguarding those countries.

 

I could go on, looking at the way they treat the populations in the territory they seized.

 

Not clones, but much in common.

Edited January 25, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[rabas]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

From the article: "Die Instandsetzung dieser Fahrzeuge würde ein knappes Jahr dauern. Eine Auslieferung wäre Ende 2023/Anfang 2024 möglich."

 

The preparation would take almost a year.

A delivery is possible end of 2023 or beginning of 2024.

 

 

Poland has 240 Leopard tanks,  other NATO countries have many more.  The important thing is that Germany has given permission for these to be sent to Ukraine.

[MRToMRT]

2?

[rabas]

2 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

2?

Model number.

[MRToMRT]

7 minutes ago, rabas said:

Model number.

Ahhhhhhhhh. Thanks, I misread the title. My bad.

[OneMoreFarang]

20 minutes ago, rabas said:

Poland has 240 Leopard tanks,  other NATO countries have many more.  The important thing is that Germany has given permission for these to be sent to Ukraine.

Yes.

But Poland and other NATO countries sending Leopard tanks is not the same as Germany sending them.

For Ukraine it might be the same, they get the tanks which they want.

For world politics there is a huge difference. Germany and Germans are reluctant to send offensive weapons to war regions - for a good reason. 

[BE88]

3 hours ago, bannork said:

You'll survive on a Thai beach you love, just hone your fishing skills for food.

You say if it came to it, but what does that mean? No one is threatening to invade Russia.

I see you are not aware that in a nuclear war we all died, only scorpions seem to survive in a radioactive way.

 

[SunnyinBangrak]

1 minute ago, BE88 said:

I see you are not aware that in a nuclear war we all died, only scorpions seem to survive in a radioactive way.

 

That you had to state that in the first place is a sign that the escalation of the war with Russia has not been fully thought out.

[sqwakvfr]

What happens when soldiers who are not properly trained are sent into battle with unfamiliar equipment and weapons?   The only way to avoid disaster is to have embedded advisors.  I know this sounds like Vietnam but western Tanks and equipment are technically more complex than those made in Russia.  NATO should at least consider civilian technical advisors along with the tanks and other equipment.  

 

Simple question is this:  How long does it take to train a soldier to become a competent tank mechanic?  For the US Army at a minimum a 6 month technical school and almost a year of On The Job Training and Mentoring. 

[BE88]

2 hours ago, steven100 said:

I tend to agree with Northstar1's  comment ....

Let Russia accidently or on purpose land 1 rocket in a NATO country and then let NATO blow Moscow of the face of the earth before it has any chance of using their nuclear arsenal. 

That will end Putin & many other dispictable murderous cronies,  for the good of humanity get rid of them.

Evidently you don't know the nuclear capability of Russia and its atomic submarines, and of many hidden atomic bases, you are convinced that all Russian military will surrender when Moscow is destroyed.

It's an option I wouldn't want to take.