Alice Springs: Alcohol limited in Australian town due to violence

[Scott]

 

An outback Australian town has re-imposed a controversial policy directed at Aboriginal communities that restricts the sale of alcohol.

Under the new restrictions, no takeaway alcohol will be sold in Alice Springs - about 450km northeast of Uluru - on Mondays or Tuesdays.

Alcohol can also only be sold between 15:00 and 19:00 on all days except Saturdays.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-64389869

[RayWright]

Remember a story an old family friend told me back in the early 80's. He was the Teachers Whisky Rep for South Australia, so used to travel extensively across the State. Can't remember which town / Settlement it was, but the Village Elders took a vote, and it was unanimous that the annual Government Cheque should be spent on grog, as opposed to budgeting across the year to support the community. Consequently once paid, he organised a flat-bed full of Beer, Bundy Rum, Port and Whisky. When delivered the whole community was paralytic for 2 weeks. This wasn't a one off.

True fact, the indigenous people of Australia can't handle booze as they never drunk it till the Europeans arrived, consequently they never elvolved and developed the tolerance / enzymes us Europeans did. 

[thaibeachlovers]

Alcohol really is a toxic drug. If it was only recently discovered it'd likely be banned, IMO.

[JonnyF]

Unfortunately Aboriginal communities have long suffered from the plague of Alcohol abuse.

 

When I first worked in Sydney I used to walk through Redfern to my job in Alexandria. It was an Aboriginal hotspot at the time (maybe it still is?) and there were always groups of Aboriginals there, huddled around in groups of 5-10 hitting the bottle - and that was at 7am. 

 

I'm not really sure banning it for certain hours of the day or days of the week is the best solution though. Maybe education would be the way to go in the long term, it seems like a change of culture is required.

[giddyup]

I lived in Katherine NT as a kid and aboriginals weren't allowed to buy alcohol (they also couldn't vote) and there were no drunken aboriginals killing each other or neglecting their children as there is now. Alcohol has destroyed aboriginal communities.

[Andrew65]

6 hours ago, RayWright said:

Remember a story an old family friend told me back in the early 80's. He was the Teachers Whisky Rep for South Australia, so used to travel extensively across the State. Can't remember which town / Settlement it was, but the Village Elders took a vote, and it was unanimous that the annual Government Cheque should be spent on grog, as opposed to budgeting across the year to support the community. Consequently once paid, he organised a flat-bed full of Beer, Bundy Rum, Port and Whisky. When delivered the whole community was paralytic for 2 weeks. This wasn't a one off.

True fact, the indigenous people of Australia can't handle booze as they never drunk it till the Europeans arrived, consequently they never elvolved and developed the tolerance / enzymes us Europeans did. 

About 10 years ago I worked in a job where I got to travel a lot around Australia. We were in a town near the QLD/NT border and in a local shop where you could drink a few beers, but there was a sign there saying no booze to be taken away. Also big signs by the road stating NO ALCOHOL - NO PORNOGRPHY.

In PNG booze was banned on our camp, mainly because if the locals started drinking they were likely to start hacking each other to death with 'bushknives' (rather like a 'machete').

[ozimoron]

Those restrictions will make no difference. Alcohol purchases need to be severely rationed for everybody. In Darwin they have tried banned drinkers registration and 3 Km exclusion zones, nothing worked. They have also tried cash management for welfare. In my opinion welfare payments should not be allowed to purchase either alcohol or cigarettes for any Australian. The cost to public health services is too high.

[digger70]

I remember living NQLD and on Centrelink Payday and the next couple day all/most indigenous were drunk till they ran out off money.

[VocalNeal]

Limit sales to one beer per tooth.????

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Unfortunately Aboriginal communities have long suffered from the plague of Alcohol abuse.

Forced to sit in camps with <deleted>-all to do all day except drink to kill the boredom has nothing to do with it?

[farmerjo]

What happened to the Healthy Welfare Card?

[JonnyF]

29 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Forced to sit in camps with <deleted>-all to do all day except drink to kill the boredom has nothing to do with it?

I didn't see any camps in Redfern. What camps are you referring to?

[Chomper Higgot]

I sense a bit of chicken and egg going on here.

[poyai111]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

I lived in Katherine NT as a kid and aboriginals weren't allowed to buy alcohol (they also couldn't vote) and there were no drunken aboriginals killing each other or neglecting their children as there is now. Alcohol has destroyed aboriginal communities.

Let's face it - they love the stuff and wouldn't anyone who shared that lifestyle of discrimination and unemployment? A lifestyle devoid of hope and a helplessness experienced over many generations has resulted in our indigenous people leading a life of despair, poverty and neglect. The inevitable social outcomes are alcoholism, domestic violence and incarceration. Tough love infuriates the bleeding hearts but the data relating to alcohol restrictions and community empowerment speaks for itself. Ignore the ignorami and go back to what works.

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, poyai111 said:

Let's face it - they love the stuff and wouldn't anyone who shared that lifestyle of discrimination and unemployment? A lifestyle devoid of hope and a helplessness experienced over many generations has resulted in our indigenous people leading a life of despair, poverty and neglect. The inevitable social outcomes are alcoholism, domestic violence and incarceration. Tough love infuriates the bleeding hearts but the data relating to alcohol restrictions and community empowerment speaks for itself. Ignore the ignorami and go back to what works.

We've never been to what works. A decent education is what works, nothing else.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, poyai111 said:

Let's face it - they love the stuff and wouldn't anyone who shared that lifestyle of discrimination and unemployment? A lifestyle devoid of hope and a helplessness experienced over many generations has resulted in our indigenous people leading a life of despair, poverty and neglect. The inevitable social outcomes are alcoholism, domestic violence and incarceration. Tough love infuriates the bleeding hearts but the data relating to alcohol restrictions and community empowerment speaks for itself. Ignore the ignorami and go back to what works.

It’s a pattern repeated globally.

 

Destroy people’s culture and the social problems of alcoholism, drug abuse, violence, family break down (the list goes on).

 

As true with native cultures destroyed around the world as it has been in the western working class communities.

 

Destroy a culture and social problems follow.

 

Who knew?!

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

We've never been to what works. A decent education is what works, nothing else.

Not so.

 

Education is only one part of the equation, it will not solve the problems created by deliberate breaking of cultures and societies.

 

 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Not so.

 

Education is only one part of the equation, it will not solve the problems created by deliberate breaking of cultures and societies.

 

 

That ship has sailed and is not longer a possibility. Aboriginal societies and cultures are completely broken. There's little or no difference between white kids and indigenous kids in the same socioeconomic strata in Australia now. The only "solution" that white society have is to direct them towards football. Tokenism at its best. As is evidenced by all lower socioeconomic communities, low standards of education are the common denominator.

[GreasyFingers]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Not so.

 

Education is only one part of the equation, it will not solve the problems created by deliberate breaking of cultures and societies.

 

 

Education would help if they wanted to help themselves. Have worked in communities where the teachers have done their best with the kids, in very difficult circumstances. Some have worked but mostly not.

When working in a dry community where we had to fly in, there was always someone that wanted a seat on the plane back to Darwin to get on the grog, paid by the Government credit card.

Not every one, some tried to continue their tribal lifestyle, but very disturbing.

[Credo]

It's important to remember that alcohol is a drug, and the problems created by it isn't significantly different from any of the other drugs.  

 

Once people reach the point of being addicted, it should be handled as a medical problem.   

 

If you look at how difficult it is to control the flow of drugs and how unsuccessful most of the interdiction efforts have been, just imagine how difficult it is to control the flow of alcohol which is legal and readily available.

[Hanaguma]

Much the same problem on isolated Indian Reserves and communities in Canada. It is dark and freezing cold for 6 months of the year, there is no economic base, people are going to do whatever it takes to get through the winter.   Even off the reserves, heavy alcohol use among native Canadians is 60% higher than non natives.  

[Hanaguma]

This was an interesting and I thought rather evocative interview on a Canadian news show called "The Agenda". The guest is a native man who went from alcoholism to being a Crown prosecutor- he wants alcohol banned from all native reserves, as it used to be.   Definitely worth a watch IMHO;

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Much the same problem on isolated Indian Reserves and communities in Canada. It is dark and freezing cold for 6 months of the year, there is no economic base, people are going to do whatever it takes to get through the winter.   Even off the reserves, heavy alcohol use among native Canadians is 60% higher than non natives.  

People need something to do and a meaning to their life.

An Antarctic base has the same situation as you describe, but because people work all day they don't become problem drunks.

There is always a solution if enough people want it. Seems not enough do in your situation and in Australia.

[Tropposurfer]

I appreciate the input, opinions, diagnoses, and prognoses by all members, and with the greatest of respect to you all. ... do any of you have any actual psychological clinical training, experience of, or intimate contact (a few say they've lived, worked in places like Katherine NT) with Indigenous Australian peoples and their communities?

 

Some here have hit the nail on the head. i.e. When a people are systematically and multi-generationally mutilated in every way that collective collapses into all forms of hopelessness and eventually self harm (you can't turn on the violators, they have more power, and the pain must be expressed somehow somewhere).

 

Sadly as an ex clinician who worked for years in remote Indigenous communities the 'interventions' offered, and imposed, have not worked for the vast majority of communities and individual cases. Complete dry communities with some Elders driving this has seen vast improvements in all indicators of wellness. Endeavours to run cattle stations etc have also been really successful in a few cases.

 

As to the notion that Indigenous folks sit about and have nothing to do, well, that's true to some degree but many Indigenous don't see or want a Western paradigm of industry and work. Not because they're 'welfare wanters' its because they crave and need being on-country and practising and searching for the Culture experience they are so starved for. They sense, but often don't know how to articulate this soulful-craving but when they speak of this stuff they 'change' before your eyes.

 

The issue now, in my somewhat 'expert' opinion, with Indigenous communities driving their own recoveries is fraught with a fundamental intervention barrier/problem.

Put in simple terms it is the avoidance of acknowledgment and grieving around the self-immolation in Community as a result of the multi-generational genocide perpetrated upon Indigenous folks. The second is focused on by the first not at all in my experience. The self-accountability as a result of the generational abuse is simply bypassed and thus healing and breaking cycles is unavailable. 

This collective refusal to traverse such vital acknowledgment and process will I fear see no ending to the shocking Indigenous morbidity from other Indigenous.

 

Many lay-people and victims alike don't know this but multi-generational abuse creates all sorts of somatic morbidity issues for individuals and collectives, apart from the obvious obesity, heart, diabetes etc problems.

 

The rampant sexual abuse of children and women, the appalling levels of socialised violence, the misinterpretation and loss of understanding of Culture whereby women are treated as less-than where intimidation, condescension, and open violence being challenged is turned away from or condoned in families and community is normal e.g. 'she needs to learn to not speak when she shouldn't' (said to me and other clinicians many times in Community). The fathering of and then abandoning of children by thousands and thousands of lost men serving only to create new generations of lonely sad and angry offspring, mothers left to raise children in violent misogynist family systems where all manner of abuses continue. The open hatred and targeting of any Indigenous person who tries to lift themselves out of the closed abuse systems e.g. 'You think you're better than us'.  

Edited January 26, 2023 by Tropposurfer

[farmerjo]

There was a trial program put in place.

Which has now been removed.

But i understand the governments thinking,let's not discriminate.

The program that was removed should have been for All Australians.

https://www.dss.gov.au/families-and-children-programs-services-welfare-reform-cashless-debit-card/cashless-debit-card

 

[puchooay]

On 1/24/2023 at 11:33 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Alcohol really is a toxic drug. If it was only recently discovered it'd likely be banned, IMO.

Agreed but is wasn't and usnt.

 

Cheers.????????????????????

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

I appreciate the input, opinions, diagnoses, and prognoses by all members, and with the greatest of respect to you all. ... do any of you have any actual psychological clinical training, experience of, or intimate contact (a few say they've lived, worked in places like Katherine NT) with Indigenous Australian peoples and their communities?

 

Some here have hit the nail on the head. i.e. When a people are systematically and multi-generationally mutilated in every way that collective collapses into all forms of hopelessness and eventually self harm (you can't turn on the violators, they have more power, and the pain must be expressed somehow somewhere).

 

Sadly as an ex clinician who worked for years in remote Indigenous communities the 'interventions' offered, and imposed, have not worked for the vast majority of communities and individual cases. Complete dry communities with some Elders driving this has seen vast improvements in all indicators of wellness. Endeavours to run cattle stations etc have also been really successful in a few cases.

 

As to the notion that Indigenous folks sit about and have nothing to do, well, that's true to some degree but many Indigenous don't see or want a Western paradigm of industry and work. Not because they're 'welfare wanters' its because they crave and need being on-country and practising and searching for the Culture experience they are so starved for. They sense, but often don't know how to articulate this soulful-craving but when they speak of this stuff they 'change' before your eyes.

 

The issue now, in my somewhat 'expert' opinion, with Indigenous communities driving their own recoveries is fraught with a fundamental intervention barrier/problem.

Put in simple terms it is the avoidance of acknowledgment and grieving around the self-immolation in Community as a result of the multi-generational genocide perpetrated upon Indigenous folks. The second is focused on by the first not at all in my experience. The self-accountability as a result of the generational abuse is simply bypassed and thus healing and breaking cycles is unavailable. 

This collective refusal to traverse such vital acknowledgment and process will I fear see no ending to the shocking Indigenous morbidity from other Indigenous.

 

Many lay-people and victims alike don't know this but multi-generational abuse creates all sorts of somatic morbidity issues for individuals and collectives, apart from the obvious obesity, heart, diabetes etc problems.

 

The rampant sexual abuse of children and women, the appalling levels of socialised violence, the misinterpretation and loss of understanding of Culture whereby women are treated as less-than where intimidation, condescension, and open violence being challenged is turned away from or condoned in families and community is normal e.g. 'she needs to learn to not speak when she shouldn't' (said to me and other clinicians many times in Community). The fathering of and then abandoning of children by thousands and thousands of lost men serving only to create new generations of lonely sad and angry offspring, mothers left to raise children in violent misogynist family systems where all manner of abuses continue. The open hatred and targeting of any Indigenous person who tries to lift themselves out of the closed abuse systems e.g. 'You think you're better than us'.  

Excellent post.

 

Thank you.

[Eleftheros]

Every Friday morning (day after welfare payments were handed out), downtown Cairns looked like a war zone - broken windows, rubble lying around, cars trashed, blood spattered all over the place.

 

The Railway Hotel, the favorite haunt of the Aboriginal community was usually left as just a burnt-out shell, and the place was constructed deliberately in a way that it could be repaired in a day or so, at minimal cost.