Netanyahu says don’t get ‘hung up’ on peace with Palestinians first

[placnx]

20 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The can have a Palestinian state with the settlements .

Two million Palestinian Arabs live in Israel, so there's no reason why 1 Million Israeli Settlers cannot live in the West Bank 

That might be OK if the settlers would follow Palestinian law and not have criminal intent.

[Jingthing]

50 minutes ago, placnx said:

If it wants to be a democracy, Israel should have a constitution that assures equal rights to all. Aside from far-right US Evangelicals and ultra Orthodox, most Americans will eventually figure this out.

Funny not ha ha funny how you cherry pick stuff to present your narrative. The very controversial historian Benny Morris that you cite on another post has the view that if Israel becomes one state as you advocate, it will be DOOMED because of demographics. Duh!

I get it. 

The Israel demonization brigade sees no value in Israel being a majority Jewish state. 

Is it any wonder that the vast majority of Israelis, the majority born in Israel, the majority without European roots, do?

You don't have any REALISTIC solution.

Just pie in the sky stuff that will never be agreed to by both parties. 

 

I do think that some kind of binational one state compromise is something both sides could be OK with eventually (maybe) but it would never be as you describe. Israel would never agree to a plan that guarantees it's own extinction. Do you think Israeli Jews are SUICIDAL? American Jews may be so, but they are very very different than Israeli Jews.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

53 minutes ago, placnx said:

Don't forget about the 1994 massacre perpetrated by an American MD on Muslim worshippers in Hebron:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre

One of the darkest Jewish terrorist actions in Israeli history, yet you disingenuously present this out of that context. Typical. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

45 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Funny not ha ha funny how you cherry pick stuff to present your narrative. The very controversial historian Benny Morris that you cite on another post has the view that if Israel becomes one state as you advocate, it will be DOOMED because of demographics. Duh!

I get it. 

The Israel demonization brigade sees no value in Israel being a majority Jewish state. 

Is it any wonder that the vast majority of Israelis, the majority born in Israel, the majority without European roots, do?

You don't have any REALISTIC solution.

Just pie in the sky stuff that will never be agreed to by both parties. 

 

I do think that some kind of binational one state compromise is something both sides could be OK with eventually (maybe) but it would never be as you describe. Israel would never agree to a plan that guarantees it's own extinction. Do you think Israeli Jews are SUICIDAL? American Jews may be so, but they are very very different than Israeli Jews.

Its a cunning plan by people who don't want Israel to exist.

They try to encourage Israel to let the non Israeli  Palestinians vote and in the next election the vote is for Israel to become a Palestinian Islamic state and Jews get stripped of their citizenship .

   I do hope that Israel doesn't fall for that cunning plan 

 

[ozimoron]

53 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Funny not ha ha funny how you cherry pick stuff to present your narrative. The very controversial historian Benny Morris that you cite on another post has the view that if Israel becomes one state as you advocate, it will be DOOMED because of demographics. Duh!

I get it. 

The Israel demonization brigade sees no value in Israel being a majority Jewish state. 

Is it any wonder that the vast majority of Israelis, the majority born in Israel, the majority without European roots, do?

You don't have any REALISTIC solution.

Just pie in the sky stuff that will never be agreed to by both parties. 

 

I do think that some kind of binational one state compromise is something both sides could be OK with eventually (maybe) but it would never be as you describe. Israel would never agree to a plan that guarantees it's own extinction. Do you think Israeli Jews are SUICIDAL? American Jews may be so, but they are very very different than Israeli Jews.

What value is there in any state being a theology or needing to have a majority any religion state. As long as there is peace it doesn't matter. The Israelis do everything they can to antagonise the Palestinians and prevent peace.

 

Should the US be a majority Christian state? I think you would argue not.

Edited February 3, 2023 by ozimoron

[Hanaguma]

41 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

What value is there in any state being a theology or needing to have a majority any religion state. As long as there is peace it doesn't matter. The Israelis do everything they can to antagonise the Palestinians and prevent peace.

 

Should the US be a majority Christian state? I think you would argue not.

This is nonsense. If the Israelis didnt want the Palestinians to exist, they wouldn't. The West Bank and Gaza exist at the sufferage of Israel.  IF the Palestinians want peace, they should stop.  Stop firing rockets and stop brainwashing their children into the death cult that is martyrdom, stop paying families of terrorists when their kin kill Jews, etc.  Put pressure on the Arab/Muslim world to make accommodation with the Palestinian refugees within their borders.  

 

Israelis want their children to live. Palestinians want their children to be martyrs and die. This is the problem in a nutshell.

[Hanaguma]

48 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its a cunning plan by people who don't want Israel to exist.

They try to encourage Israel to let the non Israeli  Palestinians vote and in the next election the vote is for Israel to become a Palestinian Islamic state and Jews get stripped of their citizenship .

   I do hope that Israel doesn't fall for that cunning plan 

 

it is so strange, is there any other country whose very right to exist is debated?  So many anti-Israel types say, "well of course Israel has the right to exist, but...."  Wow, how magnanimous.  

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

it is so strange, is there any other country whose very right to exist is debated?  So many anti-Israel types say, "well of course Israel has the right to exist, but...."  Wow, how magnanimous.  

Exactly.

It's disgusting  

They are either completely ignorant of the history of the Jewish people or worse.

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly.

It's disgusting  

They are either completely ignorant of the history of the Jewish people or worse.

Wow, have we found a topic we actually......... agree.... on? The stars must truly be aligned. Time to buy a lottery ticket!

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

it is so strange, is there any other country whose very right to exist is debated?  So many anti-Israel types say, "well of course Israel has the right to exist, but...."  Wow, how magnanimous.  

One wonders why they are so concerned about Palestinians and a Palestinian country .

  There are about 5000 groups of people in the World who also want their own Country  , like the Marsh Arabs , Kurds , Shan , Catalonians , Tibetans an various other groups .

   They don't seem to be concerned about any other group apart from the Palestinians .

  Wonder why that could be ?

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Wow, have we found a topic we actually......... agree.... on? The stars must truly be aligned. Time to buy a lottery ticket!

Because you are both tribal.

 

The Palestinians have no more right to exist or land than the Palestinians have. What would be equitable would be to divide up the land based on population. The water as well.

[Jingthing]

Neither side sees a two state solution as viable.

Thats water under the bridge at this point.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Jingthing

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Because you are both tribal.

 

The Palestinians have no more right to exist or land than the Palestinians have. 

Yes, both the Palestinians and  the Palestinians  have the same rights in equal measures

[GypsyT]

I have solution;

 

Put Brits in charge again.

That works in British Columbia, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

When other countries are fighting and dying to be independent those countries are repeatedly voting to be "under British rule".

 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, GypsyT said:

I have solution;

 

Put Brits in charge again.

That works in British Columbia, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

When other countries are fighting and dying to be independent those countries are repeatedly voting to be "under British rule".

 

Another idea that neither side will ever agree to.

Yes, I know you're being sarcastic but some won't. 

 

Next ..

 

[ozimoron]

Israel’s 55-year occupation of Palestinian Territory is apartheid

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/03/israels-55-year-occupation-palestinian-territory-apartheid-un-human-rights

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

Edited February 3, 2023 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

Israel’s West Bank settler population now makes up more than half a million people, a pro-settler group said Thursday, crossing a major threshold. Settler leaders predicted even faster population growth under Israel’s new ultranationalist government.

 

“We’ve reached a huge hallmark,” said Baruch Gordon, the director of the group and a resident of the Beit El settlement. “We’re here to stay.”

 

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israeli-settler-population-in-west-bank-surpasses-half-a-million

Edited February 3, 2023 by Scott
Fair Use Policy

[Jingthing]

Yes, the west bank settlements are there to stay. Yet another reason that it's too late to take the two state solution seriously. 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Yes, the west bank settlements are there to stay. Yet another reason that it's too late to take the two state solution seriously. 

Isn't that the same argument that Russia is making in Ukraine? That's it's a reality on the ground and the losers should deal with it?

[Jingthing]

Very old news. People commenting on possible solutions should really keep up on OLD NEWS at the very least. There was a time when a two state solution was still realistic. That is LONG GONE. There is consensus agreement on this on both sides. It's not really a matter of serious debate. 

 

Why there can never be a two-state solution | Conflict News | Al Jazeera

2017

 

At this point, it's not a matter of what people want or what people think is fair, it's a matter of the best possible plans going forward considering the actual hard baked in realities. 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Jingthing

[ozimoron]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Very old news. People commenting on possible solutions should really keep up on OLD NEWS at the very least. There was a time when a two state solution was still realistic. That is LONG GONE. There is consensus agreement on this on both sides. It's not really a matter of serious debate. 

 

Why there can never be a two-state solution | Conflict News | Al Jazeera

2017

That's like saying Crimea is long gone for Ukraine. No way to get it back? No way for the Palestinians to get their land back either?

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

That's like saying Crimea is long gone for Ukraine. No way to get it back? No way for the Palestinians to get their land back either?

The  Israel situation is unique , cannot compare it to any other situation 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The  Israel situation is unique , cannot compare it to any other situation 

Both illegal invasions, exactly the same.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and replies removed. 

[GypsyT]

"“The best example is the discrimination against Palestinians in the occupied territories in 1948, who are not treated on equal footing with Israeli residents. Israel believes that citizens of Jewish origin are better than other naturalized citizens from other countries,” he said."

 

So they took a page of Hitler's book.

 

[placeholder]

Just now, GypsyT said:

"“The best example is the discrimination against Palestinians in the occupied territories in 1948, who are not treated on equal footing with Israeli residents. Israel believes that citizens of Jewish origin are better than other naturalized citizens from other countries,” he said."

 

So they took a page of Hitler's book.

 

Godwin's law, short for Godwin's law (or rule) of Nazi analogies,^[1] is an Internet adage asserting that as an online discussion grows longer (regardless of topic or scope), the probability of a comparison to Nazis or Adolf Hitler approaches 1.^[2

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law}

[Hanaguma]

9 hours ago, ozimoron said:

That's like saying Crimea is long gone for Ukraine. No way to get it back? No way for the Palestinians to get their land back either?

A bit different. Crimea was part of a sovereign nation (Ukraine). Which sovereign nation did the Palestinian land belong to?  

 

The toothpaste is out of the tube. Israel exists (despite Hamas efforts).  Time for the Palestinians to deal with reality instead of their fevered and homicidal dreams of martyrdom. 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Godwin's law, short for Godwin's law (or rule) of Nazi analogies,^[1] is an Internet adage asserting that as an online discussion grows longer (regardless of topic or scope), the probability of a comparison to Nazis or Adolf Hitler approaches 1.^[2

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law}

Which means absolutely nothing and is not any kind of argument in defense of anything. Nazi comparisons can be valid in the right context and the Israeli treatment of Palestinian as "untermenchen" is a case in point. Certainly the holocaust is not comparable but the apartheid is the same. Israeli use of aircraft to attack Palestinians is very disproportionate and they have been fairly accused many times of crimes against humanity and war crimes.

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Which means absolutely nothing and is not any kind of argument in defense of anything. Nazi comparisons can be valid in the right context and the Israeli treatment of Palestinian as "untermenchen" is a case in point. Certainly the holocaust is not comparable but the apartheid is the same. Israeli use of aircraft to attack Palestinians is very disproportionate and they have been fairly accused many times of crimes against humanity and war crimes.

So then, what would be a "proportionate" way for Israel to defend itself against terrorists? Unguided rockets perhaps, or bombs attached to balloons, or sending in their brainwashed children....

[ozimoron]

20 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

So then, what would be a "proportionate" way for Israel to defend itself against terrorists? Unguided rockets perhaps, or bombs attached to balloons, or sending in their brainwashed children....

What should Palestinians do to defend themselves against Israeli terrorism?