25 minutes ago, Credo said:

There are some case studies involving young children that clearly suffering from dysphoria.  I'll see if I can find a link to it.  I know one was a young boy, who at 2, tried to cut his penis off because it didn't belong there.  There is also the case of an infant boy whose penis was badly injured in a botched circumcision.  The decision was made to change the sex to female and raise him as a girl.  The upshot of that case is that he spent his life identifying as male.  No amount of hormones, puberty blockers or surgeries could change his perception of himself.   

 

One of the more definitive methods of determining gender-identity is through brain scans.  The brain operates differently between males and females.  Those with gender dysphoria will show a scan that identifies with a gender different from the one assigned at birth.   

 

But, hey, surely a legislature has more insight than neurologists, neuro psychiatrists, endocrinologists, psychologists, the patient and the parents.  

Pretty predictable as the entire Maga movement (which dominates the right wing republican party trump or not) is decidedly hostile to scientists and experts and so called intellectual elites (often as code for antisemitism). Reminds me a bit of the Chinese cultural revolution. Let's put the dumbest people in charge and exile people that actually know stuff. I feel this maga thing is massively more socially dangerous than any excesses that so called "woke" may have, and of course, there are some excesses. 

The right has already lost the culture war, they just don't realize it.

 

The attacks on the most vulnerble among us just illustrates both how desperate they are to find someone to attack, and how despicable they are.

 

They seem to be making thier last desperate stand on the issue of equality for trans people.

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

The right has already lost the culture war, they just don't realize it.

 

The attacks on the most vulnerble among us just illustrates both how desperate they are to find someone to attack, and how despicable they are.

 

They seem to be making thier last desperate stand on the issue of equality for trans people.

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

 

 

 

What you term as "attacks", others see as protecting children.  Especially children in a vulnerable and frightening position, who are often being pulled apart as political pinatas and not seen as simply being children.

 

The issue is not equality. 

48 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

The right has already lost the culture war, they just don't realize it.

 

The attacks on the most vulnerble among us just illustrates both how desperate they are to find someone to attack, and how despicable they are.

 

They seem to be making thier last desperate stand on the issue of equality for trans people.

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

 

 

 

Apparently you don't understand what "the pursuit of Happiness." means. It means that you can pursue it, but happiness is NOT guaranteed. If that means that even if children think it will make them happy, if the law says they will not be surgically or medically interfered with, so be it.

If the founding fathers had even imagined that such could be done, when they wrote that, IMO they would have outlawed such.

 

The law doesn't stop people having themselves surgically altered once they stop being children.

 

BTW, an attack implies that something is being done, but in this case the law stops something being done so not an attack.

Yeah when the Nazis forbade Jews from using public transportation, they weren't attacking the Jews, they were just politely stopping them from taking rides.

 

The transphobic right wing is all about attacking their targets.

 

Am I saying American Maga is Nazi?

No. But it is without doubt a fascist movement.

1 hour ago, bamnutsak said:

The right has already lost the culture war, they just don't realize it.

 

The attacks on the most vulnerble among us just illustrates both how desperate they are to find someone to attack, and how despicable they are.

 

They seem to be making thier last desperate stand on the issue of equality for trans people.

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

 

 

 

Not sure that there a strong basis for your optimism.

The maga heads are passing different kinds of anti LGBT laws quickly in many states and also they're having success in erasing real history about black people, banning books etc. Overturning Roe v Wade wasn't enough for them. Now they seek national abortion bans.

I'd say they're winning. 

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah when the Nazis forbade Jews from using public transportation, they weren't attacking the Jews, they were just politely stopping them from taking rides.

 

The transphobic right wing is all about attacking their targets.

 

Am I saying American Maga is Nazi?

No. But it is without doubt a fascist movement.

Mike Godwin, welcome to the discussion!  Surprised you took so long to appear. 

 

You have no evidence that there is any transphobia motivating the legislators in South Dakota. Rather, IF you do, please present it. 

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not sure that there a strong basis for your optimism.

The maga heads are passing different kinds of anti LGBT laws quickly in many states and also they're having success in erasing real history about black people, banning books etc. Overturning Roe v Wade wasn't enough for them. Now they seek national abortion bans.

I'd say they're winning. 

What books have been banned?

 

Where is the national abortion ban legislation?

 

What "real history" is being erased, and where?

 

Your talking points are all over the map here my friend...

What books have been banned?  Well, over 50, but here's a few:

 

"And Tango Makes Three," The true story of two penguins at the NYC zoo.

"The Infinite Moment of Us," A book written for teens.

 

"How to Be an Antiracist",  We certainly wouldn't want children to be antiracist, would we?

 

"I Am Jazz,"  Another true biographical story.

 

"We Are the Ants,"  "The Truth About Alice," "Almost Perfect," . "Speak," "Dear Martin," "The 57 Bus: A True Story of Two Teenagers and the Crime That Changed Their Lives," "Sold," "Monday's Not Coming,"

 

That's just a very short list of the many, many, books banned and pulled from shelves at public and school libraries.  They cover everything from relationships (including a non-sexual relationship.

between a black teen and a white who face a traumatic event together--pretty dangerous, huh?)

 

The national abortion ban has been proposed by Lindsey Graham.  You can do your own research.  Since he's one of your people, I suspect you knew that.

 

History doesn't so much erase things as it omits a great deal and whitewashes a lot.  Take a look at a high school text covering Christopher Columbus then see if you can find a mention of 1619.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Credo said:

What books have been banned?  Well, over 50, but here's a few:

 

"And Tango Makes Three," The true story of two penguins at the NYC zoo.

"The Infinite Moment of Us," A book written for teens.

 

"How to Be an Antiracist",  We certainly wouldn't want children to be antiracist, would we?

 

"I Am Jazz,"  Another true biographical story.

 

"We Are the Ants,"  "The Truth About Alice," "Almost Perfect," . "Speak," "Dear Martin," "The 57 Bus: A True Story of Two Teenagers and the Crime That Changed Their Lives," "Sold," "Monday's Not Coming,"

 

That's just a very short list of the many, many, books banned and pulled from shelves at public and school libraries.  They cover everything from relationships (including a non-sexual relationship.

between a black teen and a white who face a traumatic event together--pretty dangerous, huh?)

 

The national abortion ban has been proposed by Lindsey Graham.  You can do your own research.  Since he's one of your people, I suspect you knew that.

 

History doesn't so much erase things as it omits a great deal and whitewashes a lot.  Take a look at a high school text covering Christopher Columbus then see if you can find a mention of 1619.  

 

1 hour ago, Credo said:

 

 

 

Those books have not been banned. You are free to buy them if you wish, the publishers are free to publish them. You will not be arrested for either. 

 

Sen. Graham did not propose to ban abortions. He chose to keep them legal until 15 weeks- a very common standard in many countries. It also included the usual exceptions for rape, incest, etc. So hardly a "ban". 

 

Columbus was a great man and fully deserves to be recognized.  

 

Your talking points lack accuracy and context. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Credo said:

 

"I Am Jazz,"  Another true biographical story.

 

 

That is a children's book about a child girl who wants to be a boy and the author was born male and wants to be female

   Here is the book . 

 

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

 

Those books have not been banned. You are free to buy them if you wish, the publishers are free to publish them. You will not be arrested for either. 

 

Sen. Graham did not propose to ban abortions. He chose to keep them legal until 15 weeks- a very common standard in many countries. It also included the usual exceptions for rape, incest, etc. So hardly a "ban". 

 

Columbus was a great man and fully deserves to be recognized.  

 

Your talking points lack accuracy and context. 

 

 

So, the fact that they aren't allowed in libraries -- and in at least one state, not even in public libraries-- wouldn't constitute a ban?  Sorry, but that's a ban.  Quit trying to change the definition. 

 

None of those books are required reading and should certainly be available in a library.  Not everyone wishes to buy books.  That's why libraries exist. 

 

Again with abortion, the limitation is unrealistic and it is a national ban.  

 

And some people are born one sex and want to be another.  Did you have a point?   If you don't like it, does that mean everyone else has to dislike it as well?  The book is based on a true story.

 

50 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is a children's book about a child girl who wants to be a boy and the author was born male and wants to be female

   Here is the book . 

 

And you think this book should be banned from schools, but yet Mein Kampf is available at both the local library and the school library.  For purists, it's even available in the original language.  So, the autobiography of Hitler is 'educational' but that of a transgender person is dangerous?

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Credo said:

And you think this book should be banned from schools, but yet Mein Kampf is available at both the local library and the school library.  For purists, it's even available in the original language.  So, the autobiography of Hitler is 'educational' but that of a transgender person is dangerous?

 

 

 

 

The Magaheads want to Putinize America. Make LGBT invisible in schools. Now Russia has passed a low to expand to all society. This is how that starts. The American fascists need to be resisted before it's too late. 

5 minutes ago, Credo said:

And you think this book should be banned from schools, but yet Mein Kampf is available at both the local library and the school library.  For purists, it's even available in the original language.  So, the autobiography of Hitler is 'educational' but that of a transgender person is dangerous?

 

Whether Mein Kampf should be banned or not is a different issue , this subject is about books which are not allowed in school libraries .

   Should "I am Jazz" be allowed in school libraries for five years olds to read, is the subject 

26 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Whether Mein Kampf should be banned or not is a different issue , this subject is about books which are not allowed in school libraries .

   Should "I am Jazz" be allowed in school libraries for five years olds to read, is the subject 

Yes, it should, but most 5-year-olds can't really read and would have no interest in it.    So do you think Mein Kampf should be allowed?  

9 minutes ago, Credo said:

Yes, it should, but most 5-year-olds can't really read and would have no interest in it.    So do you think Mein Kampf should be allowed?  

I do not have an opinion on either , What books American kids should be reading doesn't interest me much and I don't have an opinion 

If you are born a boy, you’ll always be a boy. If you are born a girl, you’ll always be a girl. In my humble opinion.

Gender relations, banning books, drag queens. Glad to see America's got its priorities in order regarding education.

 

Meanwhile, how about those STEM scores? How about that massive teacher shortage? How about all the tech layoffs? Sure would be nice to have some more engineers. I see China's got plenty of them, and they can't stop sending over spying devices.

 

Can we compete? Dear me, there's a book about two dads. Lock down the school.

How did this thread morph into book banning?

 

I'm not sure the government is best suited to raising children - more so given their record overseeing Native-American orphanages, providing them with love and support, and insuring that they are happy and healthy.

 

That's for parents, and if they need help from health professionals.

 

 

On 2/15/2023 at 6:56 AM, Hanaguma said:

 

Those books have not been banned. You are free to buy them if you wish, the publishers are free to publish them. You will not be arrested for either. 

 

Sen. Graham did not propose to ban abortions. He chose to keep them legal until 15 weeks- a very common standard in many countries. It also included the usual exceptions for rape, incest, etc. So hardly a "ban". 

 

Columbus was a great man and fully deserves to be recognized.  

 

Your talking points lack accuracy and context. 

 

 

I agree with everything except Columbus- the bringer of destruction of an entire people. I do understand that if not him, it would have been someone else, but he was the first.

17 hours ago, bamnutsak said:

How did this thread morph into book banning?

 

I'm not sure the government is best suited to raising children - more so given their record overseeing Native-American orphanages, providing them with love and support, and insuring that they are happy and healthy.

 

That's for parents, and if they need help from health professionals.

 

 

Where is it government taking over parenting? It's about bad parents ruining children's lives. Otherwise parents are still raising their offspring.