British woman, 20, left for dead in hit and run motorbike crash faces being thrown out of Thai hospital despite horrifying injuries after being hit with £40,000 medical bill

[Boyn]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As she apparently had insurance that seems likely. If one isn't covered for riding a m'bike just DON'T. Thailand is NOT the place to learn to ride a m'bike.

 

Are we to be continually reading of young people thinking it's safe to ride a m'bike in LOS getting into strife?

Surely it's time for western governments to put a travel warning out to prevent young western tourists doing something they shouldn't?

Because young people would listen to their governments advice wouldnt they.

[xylophone]

10 hours ago, Kenchamp said:

Too easy to rent bikes here.

I was looking for another post here which suggested that the renters of these motorbikes should play a part in whether the potential hirer is suitable, but can't find it now.

 

I was speaking to somebody who rents out motorbikes, and also there was a post on the forum about how much was able to be made by motorbike renting, and it is enormous, and this person suggested that they would rent a motorbike to anybody as long as they got a copy of the passport, because it was such a lucrative business and the number of serious accidents whereby the motorbike would be written off, are few and far between – – in summary there is too much money to be made by renting these bikes out to all and sundry, whether they are suitable hirers or not.

[Jimjim1]

6 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

sounds like boooo sheet to me.

I don’t give a boooo sheet what you think sunshine the comments came from my own experience in checking with several insurance companies in the U.K. wherein I simply recounted the info given to me several years ago when I wanted to do a circular bike route around Thailand, which meant that I would have to take out Insurance with a Thai company, but how many of these infallible youngsters even think about doing that. 
 

Given your own high level of knowledge in such matters you obviously know that not only are bike rentals uninsured but up until 3 years ago ( the last time I checked ) these bikes were not insurable by the renter.

 If that has changed please enlighten us

 

The only way round it is to buy your own bike but again if one does not have a qualified licence from one’s own country or a Thai licence any health insurance purchased in Thailand could easily meet the same fate

 

Perhaps if the truth were known the very reason why her insurance company has backed off is because of one or more of the reasons mentioned.

 

One thing we all have here is time on our hands so please be my guest and send pertinent questions to as many insurance companies as you wish but please make sure they are pertinent questions and not those fogged out by your own misconceptions.

Please also give us an update on your findings, I merely passed on my own from a few years ago but of course things change and I will happily stand corrected for the sake of everybody.

[Shocked farang]

12 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Normally the vehicle that caused the accident has to pay the costs...In this case the hit and runner...Stupid of the girl to travel without a travel insurance  of course. and of course the bill is too high, as probably for Thais it is much lower..1,6 million THB.. while expensive surgeries here on THais are not half of it, including hospitalization... 

Most probably she did have insurance but the moment she sat on the motorbike, no licence, the coverage evaporated. Null, zero 

[Ralf001]

5 minutes ago, Jimjim1 said:

I don’t give a boooo sheet what you think sunshine the comments came from my own experience in checking with several insurance companies in the U.K. wherein I simply recounted the info given to me several years ago when I wanted to do a circular bike route around Thailand, which meant that I would have to take out Insurance with a Thai company, but how many of these infallible youngsters even think about doing that. 
 

Given your own high level of knowledge in such matters you obviously know that not only are bike rentals uninsured but up until 3 years ago ( the last time I checked ) these bikes were not insurable by the renter.

 If that has changed please enlighten us

 

The only way round it is to buy your own bike but again if one does not have a qualified licence from one’s own country or a Thai licence any health insurance purchased in Thailand could easily meet the same fate

 

Perhaps if the truth were known the very reason why her insurance company has backed off is because of one or more of the reasons mentioned.

 

One thing we all have here is time on our hands so please be my guest and send pertinent questions to as many insurance companies as you wish but please make sure they are pertinent questions and not those fogged out by your own misconceptions.

Please also give us an update on your findings, I merely passed on my own from a few years ago but of course things change and I will happily stand corrected for the sake of everybody.

Rental companies have had access to insurance for their rented vehicles/bikes for the past 5 years that I know of because I pay it  for my wife who has a small rental fleet.

[bradiston]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g293915-c133830/Thailand:Driving.License.Requirements.html

 

Section 42-2

 

MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT (Thai Law)

Section 42

• Anyone who wishes to drive a motor vehicle on public roads must possess an appropriate driver licence.
• The driver must carry the driver licence and a photocopy of the registration book and show them to competent officers upon request.
• This does not apply to those who are learning to drive a motor vehicle according to the provision of Section 57.
• If the driver is an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa, he may drive a motor vehicle with a driver licence specified in the Section 42-2.
• In such a case, he must carry documents specified by the treaty between the Thai government and the government which issued such driver licence, and show them to competent officers upon request.

Section 42-2
 

• In case there is a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver licence, an alien who does not have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver licence issued by such a foreign government, or an automobile association authorised by such a foreign government.

Once you obtain a non-immigrant visa or establish you are a resident (such as enrolling kids in school, buy a car etc,) and are no longer a toursit, you need a Thai drivers licence as your national license and international driving permit is only legally accepted if you are a tourist. Several insurance companies have  fine print stating that the driver should hold a valid Thai driving licence to be fully covered after a certain amount of time in Thailand.

 

And this is the 1949 UN treaty ratified by Thailand in 1962, and the UK in 1957 (and Norway in 1957)

Sadly Germany did not participate in this treaty so they will need a Thai driving license, as their German DL or German issued IDP is not valid in Thailand.

https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetailsV.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XI-B-1&chapter=11&Temp=mtdsg5&clang=_en

Do all UK licences allow riding an MC? I think so, but am not sure. I think it used to be under 50cc for a learner licence. The wiley RTP will know!

[bradiston]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

IDP is required in Thailand for tourists on short-term stays without m/c licences that are

1. in English or

2. Don't clearly state class of vehicle permitted to ride.

 

They are also required by corrupt Thai police extorting foreigners.

 

Do you mean "that DO clearly state class of vehicle..."?

[freedomnow]

I think a Thai visiting the UK as a tourist gets allowed ER treatment for free...is that right ?

No reciprocal arrangement like the EU has (and used to have ?) with the UK.

 

I think this new arrival fee is supposed to pay for these not covered by insurance events...see how that plays out in reality after most of it gets siphoned off for this and that.

[Myran]

41 minutes ago, Elkski said:

But isn't it outrageous that they demanded 3000 pounds before providing pain meds.  Should be a crime.  Sure is a national disgrace.   I bet she can was in massive pain.  Such a sad story.  So nice people donate.  I have never looked on fo fund me. 

Take what is written in Gofundme campaigns and tabloids with an immense amount of salt. They often leave out or completely fabricate parts of the story in order to solicit more sympathy and outrage.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, snowgard said:

A simple matter of regulation. All motorcycle and car rentals need to be regulated:

1. All drivers must have a required driver's license.

• if the driver fails to prove this at a police check, the vehicle will be seized & the car/motorcycle rental company will have to pay the seizure (towing costs & parking fee) plus 50,000 THB fine.
   
• if the driver causes an accident without a driver's license, the car/motorcycle rental company must be liable for all personal injury and property damage.

2. Each vehicle in a car/motorcycle rental requires 1st class insurance.

• If the driver cannot prove this insurance at a police check, the vehicle will be seized & the car/motorcycle rental company will have to pay the allowance (towing costs & parking fee) plus 100,000 THB fine.
   
• if the driver causes an accident without 1st class insurance, the car/motorcycle rental company is liable for all personal injury and property damage.

And the problems are gone.

Actually the problems are not gone.

 

Governments can make as many rules and regulations as they wish.

 

However without genuine effective legal enforcement the laws, rules and regulations are simply ignored.

 

Should a member of the RTP stop you, generally a small to large donation, depending on the offence, or perhaps some name dropping, makes the offence disappear.

 

Until Thailand can rid itself of corruption, and the sooner the better IMHO, the better life will be for everyone living here, visiting or simply being a tourist.

[manta]

Questions asked, do you have a motorcycle licence, did the company you rented from have first class insurance, was you wearing a crash helmet?

the list goes on but that is a sure way for insurance companies to get out of the claim…

[ikke1959]

1 hour ago, Shocked farang said:

Most probably she did have insurance but the moment she sat on the motorbike, no licence, the coverage evaporated. Null, zero 

That is good possible, but than a lot of Thais are not insured, as they drive without a driverslicense, helmet or insurance.... and they all are helped in the hospitals....and don't need to pay... 

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

Government hospitals have a four tier charging system, each hospital sets it's own baseline charges. Tier 1 is Thai nationals, Tier 2 is ASEAN citizens, Tier 3 is Tourists and Tier 4 is Foreign Expats and retirees.

So I understand. I presume the charges are set by the main provincial hospital - here in Chiang Rai the Prachanukroh Hospital of "Wild Boar" fame, and these charges are followed by the small rural hospitals such as the one I use.

 

When I first settled here I was going to a private hospital in Chiang Rai for my diabetes treatment. I went to my local hospital for a minor cut which required a couple of stitches and a tetanus jab. When I mentioned I was diabetic they sent for the head nurse, who asked how much I was paying, shook her head, and arranged registration ( a hospital number and the inevitable photocopy of my passport ) and an appointment with their diabetes clinic. The cost of the clinic was less than half I had been paying at the private hospital, and I have been going every 3 months for 6 years now. The visit, blood test, consultancy with a specialist nurse, a few minutes with a doctor and 3 months medication including insulin comes to B2500. Every now and then (once a year) teeth are checked, eyes are tested and feet looked at. I get an annual check with tests for liver, kidney and chest X ray. That costs an extra B1000, and comes with a free telling off about weight and my ( moderate) drinking from the delightful nurse!

 

The point of this ramble is that the prices are reasonable - set to cover costs, not to make a profit. The bill shows the cost of each item, and the medicines are cheaper than at the pharmacy in town. I don't think we should complain about the pricing tiers you describe - perhaps a case could be made for expats and retirees being in a lower tier than tourists but it's not something to die in a ditch for.

 

I have said before, and will say again, the care and treatment we as expats get from the Thai government health system is good, and I think fairly priced, a view borne out by your experience and that of "billd766".

 

You know that I am a trenchant critic of some aspects of Thai "officialdom" but certainly not the government hospitals.

 

P.S. the hospital food is awful!

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[kickstart]

14 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Normally the vehicle that caused the accident has to pay the costs...In this case the hit and runner...Stupid of the girl to travel without a travel insurance  of course. and of course the bill is too high, as probably for Thais it is much lower..1,6 million THB.. while expensive surgeries here on THais are not half of it, including hospitalization... 

Wifes family have just had two motorbike bike accidents over the past month, with Thai 3ed party insurance it only covers you up to 30 000 baht in hospital bills, one case the car driver who so we were told, was at fault and paid the extra hospital bill, not all accident victims are so lucky. 

[SABloke]

9 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

According to the report, the other rider was on the wrong side of the road. End of story.

And the report is according to who? A victim of a hit and run? An unlicenced person who had an unfortunate crash? The only witness mentioned is the person who found her. Strangely no mention of debris etc. I just find some of the information (not facts) in the article a bit vague. I could be wrong, of course. 

 

And just to be clear, you're basically stating that you believe every (in many cases unsubstantiated) word that the Daily Mail publishes. What a blissful life you must lead.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

So I understand. I presume the charges are set by the main provincial hospital - here in Chiang Rai the Prachanukroh Hospital of "Wild Boar" fame, and these charges are followed by the small rural hospitals such as the one I use.

 

When I first settled here I was going to a private hospital in Chiang Rai for my diabetes treatment. I went to my local hospital for a minor cut which required a couple of stitches and a tetanus jab. When I mentioned I was diabetic they sent for the head nurse, who asked how much I was paying, shook her head, and arranged registration ( a hospital number and the inevitable photocopy of my passport ) and an appointment with their diabetes clinic. The cost of the clinic was less than half I had been paying at the private hospital, and I have been going every 3 months for 6 years now. The visit, blood test, consultancy with a specialist nurse, a few minutes with a doctor and 3 months medication including insulin comes to B2500. Every now and then (once a year) teeth are checked, eyes are tested and feet looked at. I get an annual check with tests for liver, kidney and chest X ray. That costs an extra B1000, and comes with a free telling off about weight and my ( moderate) drinking from the delightful nurse!

 

The point of this ramble is that the prices are reasonable - set to cover costs, not to make a profit. The bill shows the cost of each item, and the medicines are cheaper than at the pharmacy in town. I don't think we should complain about the pricing tiers you describe - perhaps a case could be made for expats and retirees being in a lower tier than tourists but it's not something to die in a ditch for.

 

I have said before, and will say again, the care and treatment we as expats get from the Thai government health system is good, and I think fairly priced, a view borne out by your experience and that of "billd766".

 

You know that I am a trenchant critic of some aspects of Thai "officialdom" but certainly not the government hospitals.

 

P.S. the hospital food is awful!

 

 

At least you can order food delivery now, even from 7/11.

 

Other than that the hospital food IS awful.

[thailand49]

16 hours ago, SABloke said:

How do you know she didn't? 

I guess when the article clearly noted the other party was traveling the wrong direction isn't good enough? 

[wangotango]

12 hours ago, NotReallyHere said:

Not sure if this has already been stated.  I can't bear to read through all 5 pages of this thread.

 

The woman needs to provide documentation to increase her credibility if she's asking for money on GoFundMe.  Too many scams there.

 

I would expect to see:

Itemized hospital bill

Police report

Copy of her insurance ID card to prove she has insurance and was covered for motorcycling

International Driver's License

Copy of emails with insurance company showing they either will not pay or are "dragging their feet".  She has to explain why the insurance company hasn't paid.  Is it her fault?

 

No money or sympathy from me until I know her sad case is legitimate.

Her father has already said she wasn't lisecend and she wasn't covered to ride a motorcycle

[Sheryl]

28 minutes ago, wangotango said:

Her father has already said she wasn't lisecend and she wasn't covered to ride a motorcycle

Exactly.

 

Many travel policies do not cover being on a motorcycle and those that do,  do so only if holding a valid licence (valid for what is being driven and where it is being driven) and provided  not in any way breaking the law i.e. not under the  influence.

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

Government hospitals have a four tier charging system, each hospital sets it's own baseline charges. Tier 1 is Thai nationals, Tier 2 is ASEAN citizens, Tier 3 is Tourists and Tier 4 is Foreign Expats and retirees.

Actually most government hospitals do not have this.  Hospitals are allowed to have tiered pricing but for most it is not worth the hassle. Only those lilocated in areas where they see a significant number of foreigners do this. 

[DodgerRodger]

22 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Exactly.

 

Many travel policies do not cover being on a motorcycle and those that do,  do so only if holding a valid licence (valid for what is being driven and where it is being driven) and provided  not in any way breaking the law i.e. not under the  influence.

+1

 

I have a current one year multi trip policy from the UK and it contains the following exclusion:-

 

Motor cycling as a passenger or rider (unless wearing a helmet, the motorcycle is under 125cc and the rider holds a valid motorcycle licence)

[SABloke]

58 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

I guess when the article clearly noted the other party was traveling the wrong direction isn't good enough? 

No, not really. I just read "hearsay" in what I've read. Most of the article is poorly written. 

 

For the sake of clarity, besides the author of the article (and nobody else directly involved... apparently), what convinces you that somebody else is responsible for this crash?

[manolothai]

It happened to me as well. I called the Embassy they told me the hospital couldn't hold me. They had to let me go making me sign a declaration that I would have paid the bill as soon as possible, otherwise the embassy would had force the hospital to discharge me. 

At the end the insurance paid but I had to do in a second stage a second operation for the cost of 36k euro and I had to pay in advance from my pocket. 

In the accident the police said the fault was 50% me and the Thai car.

That's my experience. 

 

From that day since basically I lost forever my hip joint that has been replaced by a prosthesis, i bought a 2.7 ton suv and I use motorbike just for go at 7 back to my house, I also pay a first class insurance and a premium one for health coverage. 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by manolothai

[Waterlily2544]

Typical greedy Thailand. I had a letter of guarantee BEFORE going to the ER of one of the major international hospitals in BKK and had 100% coverage (excruciating abdominal pain, not an accident) and they treated me like <deleted>, wanted cash up front; had huge bruises on my arms from where the nurses hit me so hard. They stuck me on a bed in the ER and shoved me in a corner and mostly ignored me for 20 hours. At hour 15 I was begging for something to eat. Turned out I had a massive internal infection. I finally escaped and went to a different hospital that didn't seem to care about money and insurance and after a week as an in patient I was better. Some hospitals in BKK ride on their fancy name but are total <deleted>. 

[nigelforbes]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Actually most government hospitals do not have this.  Hospitals are allowed to have tiered pricing but for most it is not worth the hassle. Only those lilocated in areas where they see a significant number of foreigners do this. 

That's good to know, I had read that they were given the ability to charge this way. The question is then, if they don't charge by tiers, how do they charge, is there a formula or relationship to Thai pricing?

[liddelljohn]

I will bet its not a government hospital

 

 

[Albaby]

On 2/17/2023 at 7:11 AM, ezzra said:

At 1.6+ million baht owing to them the hospital has every right to asks for their money, the problem is with the UK travel insurance that drags their feet in covering the expenses and not adding to the already mounting miseries and pains of everybody.

Absolutely. I was taken to Lana by ambulance, as soon as I was compus mentus I was wheeled down to the office and asked for 150,000B while we waited for my insurer to check with my Oz GP that it wasn't a pre existing condition. Broken back, shoulder, ribs, Pre existing <deleted>? Lana was fantastic, no complaints with them.

[Ralf001]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

At least you can order food delivery now, even from 7/11.

 

Other than that the hospital food IS awful.

My doc was telling me I need to eat more to help my recovery other wise my stay in ICU would prolong.

Told her the hospital food was terrible and that I was doing the best I could.

She said i can eat anything I want................. So I had pizza delivered for lunch !!

 

[Ralf001]

10 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

That is good possible, but than a lot of Thais are not insured, as they drive without a driverslicense, helmet or insurance.... and they all are helped in the hospitals....and don't need to pay... 

Free medical for Thai's at the hospital they are registered at.

[jerrymahoney]

3 hours ago, liddelljohn said:

I will bet its not a government hospital

This is the government hospital on Koh Phi Phi and there does not seem to be any others.

http://pp-hospital.com/index.php

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by jerrymahoney