Has CM Changed Since 2016?

[lordblackader]

The basics are still the same but the biggest changes have been new shops and restaurants. COVID gutted the touristy parts (Nimman/Old City/Chang Klan) with many places closing down but now new shops/restaurants/bars etc opening all the time. A good many new shops are marijuana dispensaries as well, so that's definitely new from 2016 ????

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, lordblackader said:

What more pollution since? if anything, it has gone down, particularly during wet season.  

Seriously, wet season.   AQI should always be <50

 

Burn season has been krap for the 20+ yrs I've been here.  Only difference, it's months longer now...not better.

 

If I was forced to live in Krung Thep or north of, I'd leave the country or be on holiday half the year down south, where AQI is usually <100.

[JimTripper]

????

Edited February 21, 2023 by JimTripper

[WinnieTheKhwai]

On 2/19/2023 at 10:22 AM, dingdongrb said:

I lived in CM since 2009 and up until a year ago. I enjoyed the city and all it had to offer. I disliked the traffic, available parking, tourist areas, and air pollution.

 

I have found Nan to be much more my liking.

You do of course realize that Nan has worse pollution than Chiang Mai so far this year, right? ????   See this is what happens when people believe and parrot everything they see on forums or social media, that Chiang Mai has an air pollution problem and other places don't.   (And no, Nan ALSO isn't somehow worse than most other places in the North and North East.)

 

 

On 2/19/2023 at 10:23 AM, Dante99 said:

pickey pickey pickey

 

If that is what you want one has to wonder why you are inquiring about Chiang Mai and not a place known for fresh air.

Basically that would be Phuket, or other places very far South.  Most other places you're not going to have better air than Chiang Mai over the entire year.  (And sometimes without the relative benefit of having a bad period so concentrated around March, making it easier to avoid with a holiday.)

 

On 2/19/2023 at 11:49 AM, BananaStrong said:

death pollution.    WAY more cars, more pollution.  

Ehm, no.  Pollution levels are improving in the North. Slowly.   If you're not in Phuket or the very far South then over the year you're not going to have better air than Chiang Mai.  And especially not if you take a holiday in March.   

 

On 2/20/2023 at 9:18 AM, KhunLA said:

Seriously, wet season.   AQI should always be <50

 

Burn season has been krap for the 20+ yrs I've been here.  Only difference, it's months longer now...not better.

AQI under 50 (green zone) is extremely rare anywhere in Thailand and Asia.  It used to very rarely happen in Chiang Mai in the rainy season that a whole month would be in the green on average, but it happens more and more in recent years. 

 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

2016 seems a little arbitrary..  Covid had a big impact but Chiang Mai came back stronger now that it's finally over, specifically more varied tourist nightlife;  in 2016 it was a bit of a drag of the usual bars along Loi Kroh; there is more variety now, and more spread out. 

 

Night Bazaar seems to have died, but there are more markets than ever, including in unexpected places.  (e.g. Ba Pao 'Coconut' market, the Muslim market, Kad Manee market and several others.   The Night Bazaar needs a serious makeover, to be honest I always though it touristy and nasty, with a lot of counterfeit items, mass produced junk, etc. 

And of course the old city is getting nicer and nicer every year, the Covid hiccup notwithstanding.   This is pretty easy to see just with Google Streetview's feature to show previous years. e.g. 

 

Now: 

 

2016:

 

Now:   (Unsightly cables gone)

 

2016:

 

Now: 

 

2016:

 

Now:

 

2014 (in 2016 construction had started but it was a mess) : 

 

So basically the Old City is looking better every year... with one caveat that the residential use of the old city is being lost in favor of boutiques, cafes, hotels, restaurants, etc.   That reversed temporarily during Covid but it's picking up again already. 

[KhunLA]

25 minutes ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 See this is what happens when people believe and parrot everything they see on forums or social media, that Chiang Mai has an air pollution problem and other places don't.

 

AQI under 50 (green zone) is extremely rare anywhere in Thailand and Asia.  It used to very rarely happen in Chiang Mai in the rainy season that a whole month would be in the green on average, but it happens more and more in recent years. 

 

You not parrot-ing are you, and I don't know what country or where you live, but in my world, as I stated, AQI should be <50 during rainy season.

 

Oh my ... look at all that GREEN ... 

 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

25 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

Oh my ... look at all that GREEN ... 

Indeed.  That site didn't have data for Chiang Mai last year, (not sure how they lost that but ok) but here's for 2020 which was quite a bad year.   But even that year those rainy season months look plenty green.  Which was your argument right, that it should be green in the rainy season;  well it is: 

 

 

And increasingly so: 

 

 

By the way... Hua Hin in Prachuap right now..  yeah that's just great air right..  ???? 
 

 

(Hua Hin finally has a government PCD station since the second half of last year, so going forward it'll be much easier to compare Hua Hin with other places in Thailand. )

Edited February 24, 2023 by WinnieTheKhwai

[KhunLA]

11 minutes ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

Indeed.  That site didn't have data for Chiang Mai last year, (not sure how they lost that but ok) but here's for 2020 which was quite a bad year.   But even that year those rainy season months look plenty green.  Which was your argument right, that it should be green in the rainy season;  well it is: 

 

 

And increasingly so: 

 

So not as you said 'rare in TH', and even <50 in CM.  And that's the city, would expect country side to be a bit better.

 

I'd say most of the county experiences <50 during rainy season.

[JimTripper]

The main reason I liked cm was the extremely affordable rents for what you get (I had a lanna style house with a koi pond walkable just outside the city wall for 20k baht), not a crush of people, and necessities all there, baht bus transportation, etc. The air quality was a problem, but just tolerated.

 

It sounds like there is a crush of people now, and a lot of weird upscale cafes, etc, so maybe not what I’m looking for any longer. Chiang Rai was too quiet/small for me. Never tried Hua Hin but saw a blog on it and scratched it off my list. Hat Yai felt too different, mostly Muslim.

 

Not sure what a better option would be for me. Phuket seems too pricey, Pattaya too sleazy maybe the last two serious options would be either getting a smaller affordable apt in central Bangkok or a nicer central place in Nong khai.

 

I feel like I’m running out of options and not happy with my living situation like I was 7-10 years ago.

[LomSak27]

3 hours ago, JimTripper said:

It sounds like there is a crush of people now

 

You have to remember where you are asking, and who is answering. We have a group on this forum who’s greatest joy is finding fault, or taking the <deleted>. It’s a cultural thing, they have nothing better to do. 

Too many people?! That would be 2017 – 2019, correct?! I did not observe that to be the case. 2017 BTW was likely the high point of Celestial tourism. Chinese tourist numbers had plateaued and were dropping before the Phoenix boat accident of 2018. Also, the ‘Lost in Chiang Mai’ movie which drew a lot of the tourists, keeps ageing. Kind of a fad and the Chinese have the money to go to other places. 

As for housing, not sure about house rentals, but it has been renters market in condos, apartments, guest houses for years. Okay there has been a virus but Chiang Mai way overbuilt BEFORE that. Likely money from outside of CM. You can look up on this site, December of 2018, you had 50 or more hotels up for sale. A glut, although they did not want to admit to that. That extended to other housing as I got this condo at that time, They kept lowering the price until I could not refuse. A Renters market which remains to this day. 
 

I peg up the dates Feb 15 – May 15, as the hot season, known as the smoggy season. Give or take, just three months, like it always has been. May 15 till Feb 15 is the rainy season and the start of the non-rains. Nine months of good weather. I have no problems with the rainy season, like it. I am also set to go traveling soon, like I did back in 2019. That seems a lifetime away. If you can afford it the smoggy season is a good time for a trip. 
 

I lived here from 01 to beginning of 07, I am supposed to say it was paradisical, a veritable garden of Eden. Yet, when I pull off my rosy shaded nostalgia glasses there are things, I miss but meh. You can say that about any city. I came back because it was still the best alternative. Huay Hin was the only real competition.

I alluded to it at the beginning of this post. ‘Hordes of tourists’, backpackers, and or Chinese tourists?? That of course cannot be in the last three years, as there has been a virus, you might have heard of it. I recall it being said in the papers that western tourists were saving the 2019/20 season (before wuhan flu hit) because Chinese numbers has indeed fallen off. Is there more traffic? Sure like every other town in Thailand. I never get caght in traffic jams, likely because I know when and where they occur, and take other routes. Nothing but local knowledge anyone can develop

Note – While I was living in the old city behind Thapae gate for months in 2018 as I had items shipped to me & finished paperwork. My hobby was to walk the area, the old hood and take pictures of the new ‘boutique hotels’ which had sprouted & were empty. I also took picture of the old backpacker places that had fallen on hard times and were deserted. That trend has only grown with pandemic and lockdown. Yep they continued to build boutique hotels during the pandemic, even after those 50 plus hotels were for sale in 2018, then no tourists  arriving because of Wuhan Flu. Backpackers are a smaller and smaller segment of overall tourism, BTW.

What you value,  is how your choice will be made. Just base it on facts not on a bunch a hooy, people toss against a wall for kicks & giggles, here. Hope it all works out for you.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by LomSak27

[TheAppletons]

20 hours ago, JimTripper said:

I feel like I’m running out of options and not happy with my living situation like I was 7-10 years ago.

  Is there some reason you can't travel to Chiang Mai for a week or two to decide if you "still like it"?

 

  Seems like checking it out in person would be more helpful than asking others - who may have different sets of values than you do - about it.

Edited February 25, 2023 by TheAppletons

[JimTripper]

14 hours ago, TheAppletons said:

  Is there some reason you can't travel to Chiang Mai for a week or two to decide if you "still like it"?

 

  Seems like checking it out in person would be more helpful than asking others - who may have different sets of values than you do - about it.

One could say that about anything. Just see for yourself and don’t ask.

[Dante99]

On 2/25/2023 at 4:51 AM, JimTripper said:

It sounds like there is a crush of people now, and a lot of weird upscale cafes,

What are you on about?

 

"a crush of people"  what does that really mean, I live in CM and never felt a crush of people, only occasionally a lot of traffic

 

"weird upscale cafes" means what and why does it matter since nobody forces you to go into them, just walk on by if you do not care to partake

 

but all in all I would say Chiang Mai is not suited to you and so please go elsewhere

[BritManToo]

23 hours ago, LomSak27 said:

Backpackers are a smaller and smaller segment of overall tourism, BTW.

Was sitting outside 'Hom Coffee' (MoonMuang near Bikers Corner) earlier this week, many backpacker types both young and old passing by.

[LaosLover]

On 2/25/2023 at 4:51 AM, JimTripper said:

 

 

a lot of weird upscale cafes, etc,

 

 

Def true.

 

On my corner, there's a Japanese toast restaurant, a donut restaurant, a cafe with a lot of stuffed animals, an instragram landmark brunch place (weeping flower vines), A roaster8 coffee bar (they won a latte award in Vienna), and I'm Your Vegan, which has veggie dips in neon colors.

 

Chiang Mai caters to the Asians who are their main market now. It's always had a slightly inflated cultural aura, only a tiny % of visitors here will pop into a few wats. Most visitors to Florence likewise visit more gelato stands than great art. It's always been "ruined". You could ruin it a few hundred more percent and it would still fill up.

 

A friend I met from this board called it the Thai-est part of Thai-land that Westerners can enjoy without it being too Thai (inconvenient). 

 

As to rents, I'm in a large condo on a hot corner and I'm paying the same 20K as Jim Tripper used to. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by LaosLover

[TheAppletons]

16 hours ago, LaosLover said:

On my corner, there's a Japanese toast restaurant, a donut restaurant, a cafe with a lot of stuffed animals, an instragram landmark brunch place (weeping flower vines), A roaster8 coffee bar (they won a latte award in Vienna), and I'm Your Vegan, which has veggie dips in neon colors.

Not donuts!  Oh, the horror.

 

Next you'll be telling us there's a warehouse-style grocery store just down the street.....

[LaosLover]

Ah, you know my corner.

 

Free Bird Cafe, that anarchist-hippie-very solid charity is mere feet away from the Lotus. I saw a guy who looked like Jesus doing a tarot card reading there. Very much a bring your own yoga mat venue.

 

Maybe Jack Tripper could rent on that block for a whiff of the old days. I see some signs up.

 

We'd be happy to meet him. We're at Free Bird at least once a week. We may volunteer to teach English there. We love us some Nimman.

[LaosLover]

And an on there fly restaurant review:

 

After GoodSoul's in The Old City, Free Bird Cafe is the2nd best vegan in town.

 

In any other city on earth, it would be a starred Time Out listing.

 

To many, vegan restaurants = Pai, the sequel. But we like Pai too.

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by LaosLover

[TheAppletons]

13 hours ago, LaosLover said:

Maybe Jack Tripper could rent on that block for a whiff of the old days. I see some signs up.

  Was Mr. Roper the landlord advertising the room?