My firiend wants to buy a beer bar.

[gearbox]

28 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Please desist. REALLY not interested in any opinions. Just purchase price and rents in different areas. NOTHING else.

Not in Pattaya, but there is a bar for sale in soi Reggae, Chaweng, Samui. Asking price 1.2 mil baht. For sale already 4-5 months, no buyers yet.

 

The bar also takes bar fines, not only selling drinks.

 

The asking price indicates that it is unlikely the bar does anything in the vicinity of 100k per month net. These places don't trade as other tourist businesses, e.g they don't rely on Google, TripAdvisor reviews and ranking etc. Hence my assumption would be that the brand and the goodwill value is fairly low, so the buyer purchases not much more than second hand furniture.

[stoner]

21 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Look on property websites or websites where businesses are sold if all you want is purchase price and rent 

i think the op is a newbie ......to expect a thread to go exactly how you want on here 

 

hahahahahaha now thats jokes of the day. 

[Lacessit]

21 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I've been around bars for 40 years and ran a group of them on Philippines for a couple of years. I'm just fishing for contemporary info in Pattaya.

Understood, you probably won't know until you've tried running one there.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Understood, you probably won't know until you've tried running one there.

From what I've seen it's a LOT less headache in Pattaya than AC.

[frantick]

Paparazzi on Soi Honey is for sale. 2.1m ready to go. 

 

I don't think any owner is going to pop in here and give you numbers for gross and net. Nor do I think their friends know those numbers exactly. 

[xylophone]

56 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Is there a problem with asking here?

I can give you some figures from a friend of mine here who ran a bar here, here being Patong, which one could argue is not that dissimilar to Pattaya, and he was very successful for a few years, mind you it was in one of the best Sois in Bangla Road.

 

The key money was 3 million baht upfront for a three year lease with rent around 80,000 baht per month (or was it 60,000??) And after he had paid for all the overheads and staff, he still came out with a 1.5 million baht profit some years.

 

Mind you it was a very popular and busy bar because he hired pretty girls, and he had a following from friendships made in London over many years of owning nightclubs.

 

Brown envelope money wasn't much at all and was dealt with by his Thai wife and I think it was in the region of 3,000 baht per month, mind you, for that he was able to stay open until 4 or 5 am in the morning, which he often did.

 

For the good staff he wanted to keep, he rented a house which cost him 17,000 baht per month.

 

He kept his own books and he would often ask me to review them to make sure he hadn't made any mistakes, but although his work was slow and laborious, he really didn't make any mistakes, although he was suffering from MS which didn't seem to impact upon his business.

 

So he made good money on it for about five years and then the slowdown came, way before Covid, and patronage dropped off quite markedly and I remember him calling me round to his house one day and he said, "you know, I can't make out whether I made 10 baht last night, or lost 10 baht, so as that's been happening a bit lately, I think it's about time I sold the bar". It had just under a year left on the lease, so I managed to get 800,000 baht for him, and he was happy with that.

 

I have known five guys here who owned bars, the one I mentioned above, who mostly did well out of his time owning it; another guy who owned a bar just opposite and who couldn't make it work, and who hung himself because of money and girlfriend problems; another guy who walked away from his bar because he couldn't make it work, sold his house for a loss and went back to England; another English guy who couldn't make it work, so borrowed money, but still sold it for a loss and still owes big money to a friend; and lastly another friend who took out a 10 year lease on a bar (friends told him not to do that!) and who was cheated out of it by his girlfriend who was not only pocketing the rent money which she was supposed to pass on to the Soi owner, but because her name was on the lease, she sold it whilst he was away.

 

Such are the trials and tribulations of bar ownership in Thailand.

 

Not hard to see why it's a tricky business. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by xylophone

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I can give you some figures from a friend of mine here who ran a bar here, here being Patong, which one could argue is not that dissimilar to Pattaya, and he was very successful for a few years, mind you it was in one of the best Sois in Bangla Road.

 

The key money was 3 million baht upfront for a three year lease with rent around 80,000 baht per month (or was it 60,000??) And after he had paid for all the overheads and staff, he still came out with a 1.5 million baht profit some years.

 

Mind you it was a very popular and busy bar because he hired pretty girls, and he had a following from friendships made in London over many years of owning nightclubs.

 

Brown envelope money wasn't much at all and was dealt with by his Thai wife and I think it was in the region of 3,000 baht per month, mind you, for that he was able to stay open until 4 or 5 am in the morning, which he often did.

 

For the good staff he wanted to keep, he rented a house which cost him 17,000 baht per month.

 

He kept his own books and he would often ask me to review them to make sure he hadn't made any mistakes, but although his work was slow and laborious, he really didn't make any mistakes, although he was suffering from MS which didn't seem to impact upon his business.

 

So he made good money on it for about five years and then the slowdown came, way before Covid, and patronage dropped off quite markedly and I remember him calling me round to his house one day and he said, "you know, I can't make out whether I made 10 baht last night, or lost 10 baht, so as that's been happening a bit lately, I think it's about time I sold the bar". It had just under a year left on the lease, so I managed to get 800,000 baht for him, and he was happy with that.

 

I have known five guys here who owned bars, the one I mentioned above, who mostly did well out of his time owning it; another guy who owned a bar just opposite and who couldn't make it work, and who hung himself because of money and girlfriend problems; another guy who walked away from his bar because he couldn't make it work, sold his house for a loss and went back to England; another English guy who couldn't make it work, so borrowed money, but still sold it for a loss and still owes big money to a friend; and lastly another friend who took out a 10 year lease on a bar (friends told him not to do that!) and who was cheated out of it by his girlfriend who was not only pocketing the rent money which she was supposed to pass on to the Soi owner, but because her name is on the lease, she sold it whilst he was away.

 

Such are the trials and tribulations of bar ownership in Thailand.

 

Not hard to see why it's a tricky business. 

Not to mention the toll it takes on the health to run it well, and be part of the bar socially to make sure it works. Not everyone can do that succesfully jabbing with customers 5-6 hours almost every day.  

[rattlesnake]

15 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Not to mention the toll it takes on the health to run it well, and be part of the bar socially to make sure it works. Not everyone can do that succesfully jabbing with customers 5-6 hours almost every day.  

A guy I knew in France never drank in his own bar. He didn't have as much fun but he's one of the very few bar owners I've known who didnt have a drinking problem.

[xylophone]

14 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Not to mention the toll it takes on the health to run it well, and be part of the bar socially to make sure it works. Not everyone can do that succesfully jabbing with customers 5-6 hours almost every day.  

Yes I forgot to mention that, because when his friends turned up at the bar they would always buy him a drink, and he never refused, so he would buy them back and so it went on and in the end he became what I would call a "functioning alcoholic" and eventually died of cirrhosis of the liver, despite efforts to try and wean him off the booze, because when you own a bar, it's damn near impossible.

 

Having said that when I first came here I looked into owning a bar and a very shrewd guy who owned one in Bangla, and who took a bit of a liking to me, did discuss it with me and showed me that he was making a profit, and when I asked him how he managed to stay sober all night and not have any liver problems, he told me his secret.....whenever friends would buy him a drink, his staff knew that his drink was Jack Daniels and Coke, and they would put a lot of Coke in the glass and just one capfull of Jack Daniels, so he never got drunk or had liver problems. Shrewd man.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

He's not the type who can trade stocks. Not interested in opinions, just the numbers.

Like I said, each to their own.

[bignok]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

I know a guy who owned a semi successful bar in tree town area for a couple of years. He was doing ok until covid. He did buy of fake books.

 

This guy needs an income to live here. He just sold a house back home.

 

I personally would never do it. I'm just researching the possibilities.

Let him research it. Most likely lose money unless experienced.

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

I'm well aware of that but if it was true of all bars there would be no bars. Nobody's charging into a big spend with the wool pulled over their eyes.

exactly.

calculate the average length of time each bar on soi 6 has been open. 

they can't be losing money if they've stayed open 10 years. 

watch out for replies from people who are shooting down the idea because of envy. 

 

[transam]

Just now, save the frogs said:

exactly.

calculate the average length of time each bar on soi 6 has been open. 

they can't be losing money if they've stayed open 10 years. 

watch out for replies from people who are shooting down the idea because of envy. 

 

Envy, sitting behind a bar selling beer and dealing wiv drunks...........

Now come on.................????

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

exactly.

calculate the average length of time each bar on soi 6 has been open. 

they can't be losing money if they've stayed open 10 years. 

watch out for replies from people who are shooting down the idea because of envy. 

 

Its not a case of being envious , we just don't think that its a good idea .

   How many bars in Pattaya have closed down ?

The profitable bars will probably have regular customers , you would need to start a bar with regular customers as it will take a long time to build up a ...cant think of the word

[Hummin]

most importantly, you must be willing to invest enough to make it happen, have reserves, and be willing to work hard and understand what you are doing, and also be able to pick up problems early enough so it doesnt hurt you in the long term. Last, know when to quit. 

[bignok]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its not a case of being envious , we just don't think that its a good idea .

   How many bars in Pattaya have closed down ?

The profitable bars will probably have regular customers , you would need to start a bar with regular customers as it will take a long time to build up a ...cant think of the word

I know people who ran bars. They worked hard. I wouldn't do it. It sounds fun but isn't. Customers have fun, owners are stressed. No thanks.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its not a case of being envious , we just don't think that its a good idea .

   How many bars in Pattaya have closed down ?

The profitable bars will probably have regular customers , you would need to start a bar with regular customers as it will take a long time to build up a ...cant think of the word

Established...

[save the frogs]

8 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The profitable bars will probably have regular customers , you would need to start a bar with regular customers as it will take a long time to build up a ...cant think of the word

maybe that's the business model for some bars - they attract mostly local expats.

but the turnover rate of tourists in pattaya is high.

there's a new influx of tourists coming in every 2 weeks.

and tourism is back to normal.

so that argument doesnt hold up.

 

[JeffersLos]

People actually do all that for only 100k baht a month???

[JimmyJ]

I think 1 reason posters are skeptical is because a guy in another country wants to open a bar in Pattaya, so he has a friend who is here asking about numbers by posting on aseannow.com.

 

Somehow doesn't sound like a pro methodology.

Edited May 1, 2023 by JimmyJ

[Lemsta69]

11 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

People actually do all that for only 100k baht a month???

And thank their lucky stars for such a bonanza!

[rattlesnake]

16 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

People actually do all that for only 100k baht a month???

Most don't make that much. I lived in Pattaya for a few years and from what I've seen, those who open bars do it because they want to live here, perhaps "live the dream" etc., but don't actually have experience with starting and developing a business, which takes years of hard work, regardless of how "fun" the setting is. Factor in the language and cultural barrier, the girlfriend who come into (and significantly complicate) the equation and you have an 80% chance that two years down the road, the establishment is either closed or sold. The turnover in Pattaya is staggering.

[Thingamabob]

I had an interest in a bar on Patpong 2 for many years along with friends from Taiwan, and a Thai 'partner'.  We never got near to making a profit after all expenses, including those which were unrecorded, were paid. However we were only in it for fun so it was not a problem for us. The experience has lead me to believe making money in this kind of business in Thailand is not easy, to put it mildly.

[IvorBiggun2]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I have a friend, actually son of a mate of mine who wants to buy a beer bar in Pattaya.

Stay out of it. If it goes tits up he'll be looking to blame someone. 

[Kwasaki]

20 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

I had an interest in a bar on Patpong 2 for many years along with friends from Taiwan, and a Thai 'partner'.  We never got near to making a profit after all expenses, including those which were unrecorded, were paid. However we were only in it for fun so it was not a problem for us. The experience has lead me to believe making money in this kind of business in Thailand is not easy, to put it mildly.

Thanks it's hard work when Farangies involved even harder. 

 

Maybe the best ever you could call it a way of life. ????????

[ozimoron]

36 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

I think 1 reason posters are skeptical is because a guy in another country wants to open a bar in Pattaya, so he has a friend who is here asking about numbers by posting on aseannow.com.

 

Somehow doesn't sound like a pro methodology.

Would not posting here be a better strategy? I'm not discussing other methods I can find out but I'm interested to know why I should exclude this forum from my avenues of inforation.

[SpaceKadet]

3 hours ago, Hummin said:

Reasonable profit pr unit should be before cost 50% 

 

So his monthly rent is 80k

Staff 100k

Electricity 20k

Insurance 5% of turnover Normally 10 - 30 k a month depending on season and of course size of bar

Investment downpay 5% a year

Reserve to pay new tv, freedge and everything that you did not think about as well time to pay bills while waiting to gain a proper group of returning well paying customers. 

 

The biggest problem is to find loyal staff who stays with you

 

 

 

Then you can start calculate profit and how much beer you have to sell. 

 

 

True words are spoken!

Been there done that, lost money.....

[ozimoron]

9 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Stay out of it. If it goes tits up he'll be looking to blame someone. 

That has occurred to me but I've known his dad for a long time and he took my side without asking when one of his sons accused me of stealing from his business. I managed his factory on base in Angeles City for 5 years.  In this case there would never be blame laid at my feet, at least not by my friend no matter what happens to his son's money. So, in this case I'm willing to do a favour I normally would never dream of.

Edited May 1, 2023 by ozimoron

[Regyai]

2 hours ago, biervoormij said:

A youtuber put up a video with some of his numbers. It might be worth watching. I think going to a few beer bars and just asking the owner might get you some answers.

 

 

The problem with " I think going to a few beer bars and just asking the owner might get you some answers." Is that you get jaded answers.

 

It calls to mind the old ruse used by those Spanish timeshare salesmen: "Dont take just my word for it, spend a day at your leisure here, sit by the pool & ask those who've already become owners". It's human nature not to want to declare to strangers that you've been a complete fool and and thrown your money down the drain pursuing an impossible pipedream.

[RedArmy]

I have a bar/ restaurant, not in Pattaya - Some days i drink & eat more than the customers - My Mrs tells me that I'm our best customer.