My undiagnosed lung illness

[simon43]

I just got back from the hospital after getting flu and pneumonia 23 vaccinations.  These are important for me because I will shortly return to work in Myanmar, and decent hospitals are in short supply over there.  I need to protect my lungs from possible infection.

 

 

This fuzzy (sorry) photo shows what is lurking in my lungs.  Huge lumps of white phlegm that is very much like silicone bath sealant, very sticky and very thick.

 

I've been coughing and coughing up this phlegm for 22 years! It's the reason why I moved from the UK to Thailand all those years ago.  In the UK I had no lung problems until I started to work in a damp, unheated basement office.  Within a few weeks I developed a cough which month by month got worst and worst until I was experiencing uncontrolleable coughing fits.  No one else in my office developed these symptoms.

 

I went to my doctor, had x-rays and sputum tests and my lungs were pronounced as healthy...

 

My doctor suggested living in a hot and humid climate (south-east Asia).  So I tested this out by moving to Bangkok for a month.  My lung condition improved immensely!  I returned to the UK and was soon hospitalised with severe pneumonia. (Interestingly, the symptoms that hospitalised me were the same as I had experienced on several previous occasions in the UK, but without hospital diagnosis).

 

I separated from my wife and kids in the UK for these health reasons (she wouldn't move to Thailand), and I started living in Thailand, Laos and Myanmar.  My lungs were much happier in the climate, but in order to minimise my coughing fits I found jogging or walking 5km every morning helped to thin the mucus.

 

On my recent visit to the UK for prostate cancer investigations (happily negative for cancer), I also attended hospital for investigations of my lung condition.  After chest x-rays and sputum tests the doctors said I had no lung illness....  That's the same message that I received from both Bumrungrad (x-rays/tests) and Bangkok Hospital (x-rays/tests) last year!

 

The weather/temperature in the UK in February almost did it for me and my lungs.  I almost abandoned my prostate tests because I was suffering so much in the cold climate.

 

I can add that recent spirometer tests show that my lung function is normal.  I don't wheeze (unless I have bronchitis, a common ailment for me), and I don't get short of breath.  I don't need to use an inhaler.  I just have loads of thick phlegm in my lungs which causes me to cough extensively as I try to cough it up.

 

Now back in Thailand, I realise that no-one seems capable of diagnosing what is going on....

 

I don't want a diagnosis anymore.  I just want some advice as to how I can thin this mucus so I can cough it up more easily.  I often sleep on my stomach with my head and upper chest hanging over the side of my bed so that gravity can assist in moving the phlegm.

 

What might help alleviate these symptoms?  I've read that Bromelein (from pineapples) can thin mucus.  What about a vibration jacket that cystic fibrosis sufferers use to helps to move the phlegm?

 

I'm open to suggestions.  I want to be able to keep teaching and helping students in Myanmar and do not want this problem to force me to stop working ????

 

To add, annual health checks reveal no other illnesses, very healthy heart, blood works all OK (high PSA due to prostatitis), no family history of lung problems etc)

Edited May 12, 2023 by simon43

[JackGats]

I assume you've tried out things like Symbicort. Other mucus thinners are Acetylcysteine and Guaifenesin.

[bigt3116]

Have you checked out Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) ? Frequent bronchitis and excess phlegm and sputum are common symptoms.

 

"Although a single episode of bronchitis usually isn't cause for concern, it can lead to pneumonia in some people. Repeated bouts of bronchitis, however, may mean that you have chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)."

 

"Symptoms of COPD include: Frequent coughing or wheezing. Excess phlegm or sputum. Shortness of breath."

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/bronchitis/symptoms-causes/syc-20355566#:~:text=Although a single episode of,obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).

 

https://www.cdc.gov/copd/features/copd-symptoms-diagnosis-treatment.html#:~:text=Symptoms of COPD include%3A,Shortness of breath

 

[simon43]

5 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

Have you checked out Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) ? Frequent bronchitis and excess phlegm and sputum are common symptoms.

 

"Although a single episode of bronchitis usually isn't cause for concern, it can lead to pneumonia in some people. Repeated bouts of bronchitis, however, may mean that you have chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)."

 

"Symptoms of COPD include: Frequent coughing or wheezing. Excess phlegm or sputum. Shortness of breath."

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/bronchitis/symptoms-causes/syc-20355566#:~:text=Although a single episode of,obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).

 

https://www.cdc.gov/copd/features/copd-symptoms-diagnosis-treatment.html#:~:text=Symptoms of COPD include%3A,Shortness of breath

 

Thanks.  I have consulted Dr Google many times about my ailment, since this good Dr seems to know more than medical specialists ???? COPD symptoms include shortness of breath and impaired lung function.  I have neither.  My lungs are not compromised (chest x-rays show no problems) and the ailment hasn't progressed or worsened in 22 years. It started very suddenly and has remained with me all that time.  (Surely even the most inexperienced doctor would be able to diagnose COPD?)

[Sheryl]

From the sounds of it he has been thoroughly checked for every possible lung disease  both in UK and in Thailand and all results were  negative.

 

Pulmonary  function tests normal..

So certainly not COPD.

 

Simon have you investigated possible allergies? Tried an elimination diet (starting with no dairy)?

[simon43]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

...

Simon have you investigated possible allergies? Tried an elimination diet (starting with no dairy)?

Sheryl, my occasional doctor in Pattaya - Dr Olivier, whom I visited yesterday for a rabies vaccination, also stated that he did not think it was a lung disease but an allergy.

 

I haven't been eating dairy food for the past 6 months (restricted diet because of my prostate cancer 'scare').  No change with my lungs...

 

I am allergic to crab but other seafoods are fine.  My daily diet consists of fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, nuts, muesli, chicken, green tea.  What on earth could I be allergic to for the past 22 years and not be aware of it? ????

 

The lung condition is exacerbated by cold air.  I rarely use air-con.

 

If it is a food allergy, then I can't even begin to think what might be the cause.

[Sheryl]

Just now, simon43 said:

Sheryl, my occasional doctor in Pattaya - Dr Olivier, whom I visited yesterday for a rabies vaccination, also stated that he did not think it was a lung disease but an allergy.

 

I haven't been eating dairy food for the past 6 months (restricted diet because of my prostate cancer 'scare').  No change with my lungs...

 

I am allergic to crab but other seafoods are fine.  My daily diet consists of fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, nuts, muesli, chicken, green tea.  What on earth could I be allergic to for the past 22 years and not be aware of it? ????

 

The lung condition is exacerbated by cold air.  I rarely use air-con.

 

If it is a food allergy, then I can't even begin to think what might be the cause.

Besides dairy, seafood and nuts are common culprits.

 

Needs an elimination diet to tell. Eliminate only one type of food for at least one month then see.

 

Might also try antihistamines.

[simon43]

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Besides dairy, seafood and nuts are common culprits.

 

Needs an elimination diet to tell. Eliminate only one type of food for at least one month then see.

 

Might also try antihistamines.

I rarely eat seafood (in case it has crab meat in it).  I eat nuts every day ????

 

So let's start with the nuts!  Thanks.

[Neeranam]

How about removing your sinuses?

[bignok]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

just got back from the hospital after getting flu and pneumonia 23 vaccinations

23? Must be a typo

[simon43]

3 minutes ago, bignok said:

23? Must be a typo

I mean "pneumonia 23" - there are 2 different pneumonia vaccinations that guard against 13 strains of pneumonia and 23 other strains.  I already had the 13 strain jab a few years ago.

[simon43]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

How about removing your sinuses?

A good idea, I will consult with a fish to see if they can offer a gill transplant!

[Don Chance]

Start jogging 20km a day. That will cure it!

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, simon43 said:

A good idea, I will consult with a fish to see if they can offer a gill transplant!

I meant sinus surgery. 

[simon43]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I meant sinus surgery. 

It's difficult to say if that would help.  Although my sinuses were streaming like a waterfall in the cold UK weather, they are normally clear in south-east Asia.  The phlegm doesn't come from my nose but is coughed up from my lungs.  The thick white phlegm comes from deep in my lungs and thinner green/yellow phlegm from the upper part of my lungs.  I have been on antibiotics for several months now (UTIs), and haven't had bronchitis for at least a month now (I had bronchitis again whilst in the UK).

[simon43]

10 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

Start jogging 20km a day. That will cure it!

I jog 5 km every day, plus maybe another 5km walking.  I don't have time to jog 20km because I have to teach.  When I jog, I don't get out of breath but it's tired leg muscles that cause me to end my exercise ????

[kwilco]

With air quality being what it is, I would think Myanmar and Thailand are the last places you should be.

[simon43]

Just now, kwilco said:

With air quality being what it is, I would think Myanmar and Thailand are the last places you should be.

My lungs seem unaffected by the air quality.  I lived in Luang Prabang for 2 years and in the burning season my lungs were the same as any other time = congested but not worse with the air pollution.  I lived on Samui, Phuket, Phangan, all with relatively clean air.  My lung condition was the same...

[Gulfsailor]

It won’t help you now, but some very promising research could result in a cure against excess mucus in a few years.

https://stanmed.stanford.edu/neurotransmission-connection-mucus-hypersecretion/

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, simon43 said:

It's difficult to say if that would help.  Although my sinuses were streaming like a waterfall in the cold UK weather, they are normally clear in south-east Asia.  The phlegm doesn't come from my nose but is coughed up from my lungs.  The thick white phlegm comes from deep in my lungs and thinner green/yellow phlegm from the upper part of my lungs.  I have been on antibiotics for several months now (UTIs), and haven't had bronchitis for at least a month now (I had bronchitis again whilst in the UK).

I'm not a doctor and you've seen all the doctors, it was basically a guess suggestion. 

I was diagnosed with COPD last year after COVID and don't believe the doc. I had shortness of breath and then he diagnosed Emphysema, just a quack, at Bangkok Hospital. I had a lot fo coughing a phlegm which was removed immediately when I took Seretide inhaler 50/500(reduced to 50/250 without seeing the idiot at hospital). Ive since never had a breathing issue, except after 5 km on a treadmill, running. 

 

Sheyrls idea, as usual seems the best advice. 

[xylophone]

You did mention earlier on that you worked in a damp basement in the UK (?) and that's when you think your condition started, so have you ever considered a fungus/mould to be the cause of your lung condition Simon?

[Chainsaw]

What mucus thinners are you using? Also has anyone checked your sputum for fungal disease?

 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Chainsaw

[n00dle]

1 hour ago, bigt3116 said:

Have you checked out Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) ? Frequent bronchitis and excess phlegm and sputum are common symptoms.

The answer to that is pretty clear.

 

Quote

Recent spirometer tests show that my lung function is normal.

After Chest x-rays and sputum tests the doctors said I had no lung illness....  That's the same message that I received from both Bumrungrad (x-rays/tests) and Bangkok Hospital (x-rays/tests) last year!

Im extremly irritated over how quickly doctors and general folk these days fall back on COPD as a diagnosis.

 

I had one expensive asshat calling himself a pulmonologist declared I had COPD. I suffered through a terrified moth of unnessecary medication crawling up the stairs until a real doctor took one listen to my lungs, said you have pneumonia and cleared me up in a week with one pill a day.  

Edited May 12, 2023 by n00dle

[simon43]

7 minutes ago, xylophone said:

You did mention earlier on that you worked in a damp basement in the UK (?) and that's when you think your condition started, so have you ever considered a fungus/mould to be the cause of your lung condition Simon?

Yes indeed.  I always thought that my lung problems might be down to aspergillosis fungal infection.  But no other staff working in the office became ill.  Additionally, my understanding of aspergillosis is that x-rays would show shadows or fungal balls in my lungs.  But the x-rays are always clear...  I used to take anti-fungal medication (intraconozole), but it never improved my lung condition.

[simon43]

Concerning a possible food allergy, I do know that drinking red wine worsens my cough, (which is very annoying since I like red wine!).  I suspect that it is the sulphite in the wine that is causing this problem.  So could it be suphites are present in other foods that I eat regularly?

[xylophone]

1 minute ago, simon43 said:

Concerning a possible food allergy, I do know that drinking red wine worsens my cough, (which is very annoying since I like red wine!).  I suspect that it is the sulphite in the wine that is causing this problem.  So could it be suphites are present in other foods that I eat regularly?

Very possible and these are just a few..........

 

• Processed meats including sausages and burgers.
• Soft drinks, fruit juice concentrates, carbonated drinks, cordials and vegetables juices.
• Dried fruits and vegetables.
• Wine, beer and cider.
• Pickled foods and vinegar.
• Guacamole.
• Dehydrated vegetables such as dried onions.

[simon43]

17 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Very possible and these are just a few..........

 

• Processed meats including sausages and burgers.
• Soft drinks, fruit juice concentrates, carbonated drinks, cordials and vegetables juices.
• Dried fruits and vegetables.
• Wine, beer and cider.
• Pickled foods and vinegar.
• Guacamole.
• Dehydrated vegetables such as dried onions.

Thanks, but I try to avoid processed foods wherever possible.  Maybe it is in the fruit juice that I drink daily.  

 

I need to check the ingredients labels....

[xylophone]

5 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Thanks, but I try to avoid processed foods wherever possible.  Maybe it is in the fruit juice that I drink daily.  

 

I need to check the ingredients labels....

It is used as a preservative and in addition sulphur is used in the vineyard and orchards to kill pests and fungal diseases, and is often added to the finished product as a preservative!

[jollyhangmon]

... best (& fastest) way to thin up & get rid of tough mucus in my experience is steam inhalation, you know like hot water & towel ... long term maybe twice a day?

 

[ismopismo]

Wow, your symptoms and history are a reflection of my own struggle with these issues. Spirometry results: no evidence of copd or lung disease. Twice I have endured this months long problem. Never had this in Thailand (lived there for over 1 year). Perhaps environmental trigger causes existing thick mucus in the throat to take on a more sinister aspect. Methacholine spirometry ( plus complete PFT) my next lung test.