Nigel Farage: ‘Brexit has failed’

[BangkokReady]

They only had the referendum because of the popularity of UKIP and to shut people up.  Hence the wild claims, the lack of campaigning for remain, and the lack of proper thought put into what would actually happen if leave won.

 

Seems quite obvious to me. ????‍♂️

[Chomper Higgot]

  On 5/21/2023 at 12:04 AM, youreavinalaff said:

I totally agree with your arguments. Hence, no one can post here to say "Brexit is a failure". It's simply impossible to say so.

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Except Farage saying exactly that is the topic of discussion.

[Pink Mist]

Bickering posts between two posters have been removed. 

[josephbloggs]

  On 5/21/2023 at 1:20 AM, youreavinalaff said:

Not at all. That is not what I said. 

 

There are plans that come to an end. That end in failure. There are also those that end in success. 

 

Some plans take longer than others to realise their success or failure. Whilst ongoing it is possible to evaluate, of course. To suggest things are not going well or that they are going very well but not possible to suggest failure as that would suggest the plan has concluded.

 

 

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This is the most ridiculous reasoning I have ever heard. Didn't Brexit already happen? Weren't we told - over and over again - that "Brexit is done, get over it", "You lost, deal with it", "Brexit means Brexit" etc etc.? But now you say we can't evaluate it because it is "ongoing". So please, how long will it go on for? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? Eternally?

It's nearly seven years since the vote. We have now been out of the EU for several years. It is a failure by almost any metric. A failure then, now, and the period in-between. You won, deal with it.

 

[JayClay]

  On 5/18/2023 at 8:05 AM, JayClay said:

Ah! Thank you!

 

Finally... Somebody who can actually tell us which particular EU regulations he's unhappy with.

 

Please do list a couple. We've all been waiting years for somebody to step up to the challenge and come forward with some.

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@billd766

 

Sorry I don't seem to have received a notification when you replied to this. I don't have time to read through 7 pages to find it. Would you be so kind as to provide a link?

[nauseus]

  On 5/20/2023 at 8:09 AM, youreavinalaff said:

Many of my thesis, while studying for my degree, were returned with good grades and remarks such as " a good, balanced view".

 

Make of that what you will.

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I'm guessing that your degree was not in English?

[nauseus]

  On 5/21/2023 at 3:36 AM, BangkokReady said:

They only had the referendum because of the popularity of UKIP and to shut people up.  Hence the wild claims, the lack of campaigning for remain, and the lack of proper thought put into what would actually happen if leave won.

 

Seems quite obvious to me. ????‍♂️

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To shut people up! That didn't work did it?

[BangkokReady]

  On 5/21/2023 at 7:13 AM, nauseus said:

To shut people up! That didn't work did it?

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People are still demanding a referendum on leaving the EU? That's kind of weird.

[nauseus]

  On 5/21/2023 at 7:56 AM, BangkokReady said:

People are still demanding a referendum on leaving the EU? That's kind of weird.

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Not what I meant.

[RayC]

  On 5/21/2023 at 12:04 AM, youreavinalaff said:

I totally agree with your arguments. Hence, no one can post here to say "Brexit is a failure". It's simply impossible to say so.

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So the sum total of your proposition amounts to, "It is - and will remain - impossible to judge whether Brexit is - or has been - a success because in order to do so we would find ourselves in a logically impossible situation". That's it!?

 

It's what I thought all along but I kept telling myself that I must be overlooking something. And to think that I have spent time discussing such a vacuous proposition????

[youreavinalaff]

  On 5/21/2023 at 1:25 AM, placeholder said:

So it doesn't matter how many years pass, but just so long as Brexit isn't finished, then no conclusions can be drawn? Trendlines don't matter? Timelines don't matter? Predictions don't count?

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I did not say that. All I have ever said is it is incorrect, at this time, to say "Brexit is a failure". It can't be as it's ongoing.

[youreavinalaff]

  On 5/21/2023 at 7:11 AM, nauseus said:

I'm guessing that your degree was not in English?

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It wasn't, no. Why do you ask?

[placeholder]

  On 5/21/2023 at 8:28 AM, youreavinalaff said:

I did not say that. All I have ever said is it is incorrect, at this time, to say "Brexit is a failure". It can't be as it's ongoing.

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So Brexit isn't a failure as long as its ongoing? For however long it takes? Despite what trends may show? Even if results contradict the predictions of its supporters?  And who gets to decide when Brexit is over? How is that even defined? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

[youreavinalaff]

  On 5/21/2023 at 8:09 AM, RayC said:

So the sum total of your proposition amounts to, "It is - and will remain - impossible to judge whether Brexit is - or has been - a success because in order to do so we would find ourselves in a logically impossible situation". That's it!?

 

It's what I thought all along but I kept telling myself that I must be overlooking something. And to think that I have spent time discussing such a vacuous proposition????

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Incorrect. Once again, that is not what I said.

 

If one were to say " Brexit has failed in many aspects thus far", it would be difficult to disagree. 

 

Did any one, even leave voters think it would be plain sailing right from the start? I don't know any who did. Add to that, to the disdain of many remainers, the other major world issues governments have face since 2020, it's not surprising the Brexit process has suffered.

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 5/20/2023 at 10:47 PM, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Personally it did make me get off my backside and quit the sorry mess and come to LOS, best decision I ever made. 

 

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It seems to be that leaving the U.K leaving the  E.U is an unpopular opinion with Brits living in Asia .

   Why does it concern them so much ?

It doesn't effect them at all .

The only thing that I can think of is f that they would like to have the option of moving back to the E.U (Portugal or Bulgaria or somewhere) if Thailand makes it difficult to get retirement visas , but the U.K laving the E.U means they don't have that option 

[JayClay]

  On 5/21/2023 at 8:40 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

It seems to be that leaving the U.K leaving the  E.U is an unpopular opinion with Brits living in Asia .

   Why does it concern them so much ?

It doesn't effect them at all .

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On the day of the leave vote, the pound lost 20% of its value. It has not since recovered, and is unlikely to do so while the country is so unappealing to investors.

 

So, yes, it affects them significantly.

[placeholder]

  On 5/21/2023 at 8:36 AM, youreavinalaff said:

Incorrect. Once again, that is not what I said.

 

If one were to say " Brexit has failed in many aspects thus far", it would be difficult to disagree. 

 

Did any one, even leave voters think it would be plain sailing right from the start? I don't know any who did. Add to that, to the disdain of many remainers, the other major world issues governments have face since 2020, it's not surprising the Brexit process has suffered.

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I don't actually recall any of the Brexit campaigners claiming that after Brexit things would at first be difficult. I do recall Michael Gove claiming that the EU would relent and that free trade would prevail.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36074853

 

Here's a link to Johnson's speech where he claims Brexit would be a win-win.

Here's a link to UKIP's manifesto. Nothing about sacrifice and difficulties there:

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ukipdev/pages/1103/attachments/original/1429295050/UKIPManifesto2015.pdf

 

And of course there's the infamous bus campaign tying the recovery of 350 million pounds per week to the NHS

 

Anyway, can you provide any independently confirmable evidence that the leading Brexiters were warning before the referendum that it wouldn't be plain sailing?

[placeholder]

  On 5/21/2023 at 8:40 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

It seems to be that leaving the U.K leaving the  E.U is an unpopular opinion with Brits living in Asia .

   Why does it concern them so much ?

It doesn't effect them at all .

The only thing that I can think of is f that they would like to have the option of moving back to the E.U (Portugal or Bulgaria or somewhere) if Thailand makes it difficult to get retirement visas , but the U.K laving the E.U means they don't have that option 

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Trying to make it personal instead of addressing the issue.

[youreavinalaff]

  On 5/21/2023 at 9:02 AM, placeholder said:

I don't actually recall any of the Brexit campaigners claiming that after Brexit things would at first be difficult. I do recall Michael Gove claiming that the EU would relent and that free trade would prevail.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36074853

 

Here's a link to Johnson's speech where he claims Brexit would be a win-win.

Here's a link to UKIP's manifesto. Nothing about sacrifice and difficulties there:

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ukipdev/pages/1103/attachments/original/1429295050/UKIPManifesto2015.pdf

 

And of course there's the infamous bus campaign tying the recovery of 350 million pounds per week to the NHS

 

Anyway, can you provide any independently confirmable evidence that the leading Brexiters were warning before the referendum that it wouldn't be plain sailing?

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I said Brexiteers. Not leading politicians. Of course politicians are going to dress things up. They always do, from all sides.

 

It was plain to see that such a seismic move was going to create challenges.

[placeholder]

  On 5/21/2023 at 9:09 AM, youreavinalaff said:

I said Brexiteers. Not leading politicians. Of course politicians are going to dress things up. They always do, from all sides.

 

It was plain to see that such a seismic move was going to create challenges.

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So plain to see that it seems to have gone entirely unreported. At least among Brexiters and supporting media.

[Chomper Higgot]

  On 5/21/2023 at 9:09 AM, youreavinalaff said:

I said Brexiteers. Not leading politicians. Of course politicians are going to dress things up. They always do, from all sides.

 

It was plain to see that such a seismic move was going to create challenges.

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Ordinary voters I’ve met this week don’t seem too impressed with Brexit.

 

For whatever reason Farage has done the one thing the Government and the mainstream media were not doing, he’s brought Brexit failure into wide public discourse.

 

 

[Lightyear]

unattributed chart and replies removed. Please supply a source link when posting charts

[placeholder]

  On 5/20/2023 at 5:15 PM, youreavinalaff said:

You misunderstand. You can't say " it wasn't different" as the scenario under discussion didn't happen. We will never know what might have happened had UK left in April 2019.

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Which is why it's pointless to mention it.

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 5/21/2023 at 8:56 AM, JayClay said:

On the day of the leave vote, the pound lost 20% of its value. It has not since recovered, and is unlikely to do so while the country is so unappealing to investors.

 

So, yes, it affects them significantly.

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But is it guaranteed that the Pound would rise to pre Brexit rates if the U.K re-joined the E.U ?

   Much of the reason why the Pound isn't so strong is because of the strong Baht .

   The Baht has been one of the Worlds best performing  currencies and that is what you get less Baht for your Pounds 

  

[RayC]

  On 5/21/2023 at 8:40 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

It seems to be that leaving the U.K leaving the  E.U is an unpopular opinion with Brits living in Asia .

   Why does it concern them so much ?

It doesn't effect them at all .

The only thing that I can think of is f that they would like to have the option of moving back to the E.U (Portugal or Bulgaria or somewhere) if Thailand makes it difficult to get retirement visas , but the U.K laving the E.U means they don't have that option 

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1. It's a false premise. If this board is anything to go by, there is no shortage of Brits living in Asia who are Brexit supporters.

 

2. 'Remainer' Brits in Asia probably lean that way for any number of reasons. The 'safety net' you suggest might be one reason, but it is by no means the only one e.g. the belief that the EU is economically benefital to themselves and/or their family is another.

[RayC]

  On 5/21/2023 at 8:28 AM, youreavinalaff said:

I did not say that. All I have ever said is it is incorrect, at this time, to say "Brexit is a failure". It can't be as it's ongoing.

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You are backtracking and being semantic 

[JayClay]

  On 5/21/2023 at 9:25 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

But is it guaranteed that the Pound would rise to pre Brexit rates if the U.K re-joined the E.U ?

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Of course it wouldn't jump to pre-brexit levels straight away, if ever. A lot of the damage is permanent; investors who have already chosen to invest in a country inside the EU aren't going to suddenly relocate to Britain.

 

But there's still more brexit damage to come all the time the UK is outside of the EU.

 

So that answers your question about why expats care so much. Your notes about the strength of the baht ate irrelevant. The pound fell in relation to all currencies on the day of the vote and has made no significant recovery since.

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 5/21/2023 at 9:27 AM, RayC said:

, but it is by no means the only one e.g. the belief that the EU is economically benefital to themselves and/or their family is another.

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Yes, they selfishly just want more Baht from their Pound pension money , they have no concerns about the U.K , just the extra Baht in their pocket 

[nauseus]

  On 5/21/2023 at 9:25 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

But is it guaranteed that the Pound would rise to pre Brexit rates if the U.K re-joined the E.U ?

   Much of the reason why the Pound isn't so strong is because of the strong Baht .

   The Baht has been one of the Worlds best performing  currencies and that is what you get less Baht for your Pounds 

  

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No. What is more likely is that if the U.K re-joined the E.U we would have to drop the Pound and use the Euro.

[youreavinalaff]

  On 5/21/2023 at 9:14 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

Ordinary voters I’ve met this week don’t seem too impressed with Brexit.

 

For whatever reason Farage has done the one thing the Government and the mainstream media were not doing, he’s brought Brexit failure into wide public discourse.

 

 

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5555. You are still siding with Farage to make a point. That is funny.

 

His reasoning and your reasoning are polar opposites.