Trump’s White House lawyer predicts he’ll end up in jail as Mar-a-Lago probe heats up

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

7 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

How could you know whether that is the case?

Your posting makes me believe you have not kept up with the news

Why, specifically?

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

I always know his supporters are the last ones to realize the current news.

You seem to be assuming that I'm a Trump supporter as opposed to someone who has an opinion based on facts.

[scorecard]

10 hours ago, Tug said:

LOCK HIM UP! Wouldent it be sweet to have him in the same facility as the proud boys lol I don’t think old Donnie would sleep easy!

Can he take his clubs and golf cart inside? And a hotline to ronny mcdonny?

[Tug]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Hope so but I'm afraid there will be at least one stealth maga cult member on any jury making it impossible to convict him of anything.

That is a possibility but I take heart in the fact of how fast a jury absolutely flushed him in 3 hours no less in the Jen Carroll trial.They have him dead to rights on the doc case + obstruction all easily proven not to mention the Georgia voter scam or his attempted coup on j6.another thought do they know what he did with the stolen secrets?if the feds can prove any wrongdoing there oh boy!it will hit the fan big time!

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

And let's not get too carried away with the fantasy of Trump going to prison.

Where did I assert or posit that Trump was going to prison. However, that you call it a fantasy, rather than a possibility, tells us where you're coming from.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Election at the end of 2020, final days in office January 2021.

You are correct. My Bad.  

 

It is an age thing.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Can he take his clubs and golf cart inside? And a hotline to ronny mcdonny?

I did suggest while he was still on office he might help himself out by focusing on prison reform.

[pomchop]

10 hours ago, vandeventer said:

The stupid lawyer Trump should get rid of. Trump had every right to those documents as President, but Biden had no right to the documents he had as senator or VP. Justice or just us? Think hard on that one.

Geez....a HUGE difference is that Biden and Pence immediately returned all docs and co-operated as soon as the docs were found.  Trump on the other hand delayed, lied repeatedly and refused to ever admit what he had done.  It took a subpoena and a search to get the docs regardless of assurances from Trump that they were turned over.  It's called obstruction of justice.

 

Let's say three people went to a store and checked out but forgot to pay for some of the items in their  basket.  The store owner caught it all on video and notified the cops.  The cops asked all three if they indeed had some items as claimed and they immediately searched and found they did have the items. Two of them immediately returned the items and had their attorneys search to make sure all items were turned over.  The third had some of the items in his desk drawers and box after box full of items in storage.  The third lied over and over saying first he didn't have the items then tried to claim that just by thinking he had paid for the items.  lt took repeated visits by the cops where third man continued to lie until such time as a subpoena and a search found dozens of items.  

 

Only a kool aide clouded mind could fail to see the difference claiming they should all be treated the same.    Is it even possible that trumpers can ever ever admit that the emperor has no clothes?

 

[candide]

1 hour ago, pomchop said:

Geez....a HUGE difference is that Biden and Pence immediately returned all docs and co-operated as soon as the docs were found.  Trump on the other hand delayed, lied repeatedly and refused to ever admit what he had done.  It took a subpoena and a search to get the docs regardless of assurances from Trump that they were turned over.  It's called obstruction of justice.

 

Let's say three people went to a store and checked out but forgot to pay for some of the items in their  basket.  The store owner caught it all on video and notified the cops.  The cops asked all three if they indeed had some items as claimed and they immediately searched and found they did have the items. Two of them immediately returned the items and had their attorneys search to make sure all items were turned over.  The third had some of the items in his desk drawers and box after box full of items in storage.  The third lied over and over saying first he didn't have the items then tried to claim that just by thinking he had paid for the items.  lt took repeated visits by the cops where third man continued to lie until such time as a subpoena and a search found dozens of items.  

 

Only a kool aide clouded mind could fail to see the difference claiming they should all be treated the same.    Is it even possible that trumpers can ever ever admit that the emperor has no clothes?

 

He's been told at least a dozen times already and will post exactly the same claim in a few hours or days.

Edited May 20, 2023 by candide

[onthedarkside]

Unapproved conspiracy video removed

[SunnyinBangrak]

7 hours ago, pomchop said:

Geez....a HUGE difference is that Biden and Pence immediately returned all docs and co-operated as soon as the docs were found.  Trump on the other hand delayed, lied repeatedly and refused to ever admit what he had done.  It took a subpoena and a search to get the docs regardless of assurances from Trump that they were turned over.  It's called obstruction of justice.

 

Let's say three people went to a store and checked out but forgot to pay for some of the items in their  basket.  The store owner caught it all on video and notified the cops.  The cops asked all three if they indeed had some items as claimed and they immediately searched and found they did have the items. Two of them immediately returned the items and had their attorneys search to make sure all items were turned over.  The third had some of the items in his desk drawers and box after box full of items in storage.  The third lied over and over saying first he didn't have the items then tried to claim that just by thinking he had paid for the items.  lt took repeated visits by the cops where third man continued to lie until such time as a subpoena and a search found dozens of items.  

 

Only a kool aide clouded mind could fail to see the difference claiming they should all be treated the same.    Is it even possible that trumpers can ever ever admit that the emperor has no clothes?

 

Have you considered that President Trump might have a stronger case than biden because a)Trump was President when he allegedly took the documents, rather than just a senator, and b)the documents Trump had were in a safe locked room in a highly guarded luxury estate rather than in a garage in a house rented by Hunter Biden?(1)

 

 I'm just saying it's not a black and white situation like you are saying. Also no need for the standard "kool aid" insults IMO. Let's try and discus issues like adults on this world news discussion forum instead of resorting to playground insults.

 

1)https://nypost.com/2023/01/13/hunter-biden-lived-at-delaware-home-where-classified-docs-were-kept/

[Pink Mist]

A flaming troll post delving off-topic has been removed.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Have you considered that President Trump might have a stronger case than biden because a)Trump was President when he allegedly took the documents, rather than just a senator, and b)the documents Trump had were in a safe locked room in a highly guarded luxury estate rather than in a garage in a house rented by Hunter Biden?(1)

 

 I'm just saying it's not a black and white situation like you are saying. Also no need for the standard "kool aid" insults IMO. Let's try and discus issues like adults on this world news discussion forum instead of resorting to playground insults.

 

1)https://nypost.com/2023/01/13/hunter-biden-lived-at-delaware-home-where-classified-docs-were-kept/

It is even possible for you to acknowledge what the law says about the Trump's possession vs. Biden's?

 

First off, to prove that someone is criminally responsible for not following NARA's rules, it has to be shown that the party has knowingly violated them. Got any evidence that Biden knew? There's a huge amount of evidence that Trump did. 

 

It's also a violation of the law to refuse to return documents when NARA asks for them. Did NARA ever ask Biden to return documents. Are  you going to deny that it asked Trump to do so?

 

And then there's the question of obstruction of justice. In this case, lying about possession of documents. Trump's lawyer signed a document claiming that all documents had been returned. That was false. Now, maybe, that lawyer decided all on her own to sign a document prepared by another of Trump's lawyers who just assumed that this was true without asking Trump.. Or just maybe, just possibly, might there be a scintilla of a chance that the lawyers in question actually based that letter on lies that Trump told them?

 

Not that it's even relevant, but there was no actual security for the documents apart from a CCTV video camera. No human guards were posted. And are you claiming that all the guests that enter Mar a Lago are extensively vetted as regards their backgrounds?

[2009]

15 hours ago, mikebike said:

So you would prefer that the makeup of the jury NOT reflect the makeup of society. Interesting. ????

For the EX president, it makes sense that political bias doesn't affect the course of justice, so I'd say 50/50.

 

What are the number now anyway? 

[placeholder]

Nonsense. I was simply replying to another poster's assertion that the Secret Service security considerations would pose a significant obstacle to imprisoning the President.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Pink Mist
quoted post removed

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Nonsense. I was simply replying to another poster's assertion that the Secret Service security considerations would pose a significant obstacle to imprisoning the President.

Nonsense, indeed.

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense, indeed.

You offer no counter analysis, no reasoning.

You've got nothing.

[Pink Mist]

A post baiting another poster has been removed as well as the quoted post in a response.  Stay civil.

[ThailandRyan]

4 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Have you considered that President Trump might have a stronger case than biden because a)Trump was President when he allegedly took the documents, rather than just a senator, and b)the documents Trump had were in a safe locked room in a highly guarded luxury estate rather than in a garage in a house rented by Hunter Biden?(1)

 

 I'm just saying it's not a black and white situation like you are saying. Also no need for the standard "kool aid" insults IMO. Let's try and discus issues like adults on this world news discussion forum instead of resorting to playground insults.

 

1)https://nypost.com/2023/01/13/hunter-biden-lived-at-delaware-home-where-classified-docs-were-kept/

You might want to understand that the rules for declassifying a classified document are not as simple as Trump says they are.  He can not just say he thought about declassifying them and so now they are  In fact he was asked not once, not twice but he was then served a subpoena to return the documents in his possession to the National archives.  That is why he is in the cross hairs Sir. No other reason.

 

Trump Reacts to Bill Barr's Remarks on Classified Documents Probe (newsweek.com)

 

"It's very clear that he had no business having those documents," the former attorney general added. "He was given a long time to send them back and he was—they were subpoenaed. And if there's any games being played there, he's going to be very exposed."

 

CNN also reported on Thursday that the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) informed Trump that 16 records would be handed over to Smith, allegedly showing that the former president and his top advisers had knowledge of the correct declassification process while he was president.

 

Aronberg said this development is "significant" as it shows the former president's intent on keeping the documents in his possession.

[Pink Mist]

Off-topic post reported and removed as well.  The OP is not about President Biden.

[earlinclaifornia]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense, indeed.

The most recent post here is the news update I was referring to.

 

CNN also reported on Thursday that the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) informed Trump that 16 records would be handed over to Smith, allegedly showing that the former president and his top advisers had knowledge of the correct declassification process while he was president.

 

Aronberg said this development is "significant" as it shows the former president's intent on keeping the documents in his possession.

[mikebike]

3 hours ago, 2009 said:

For the EX president, it makes sense that political bias doesn't affect the course of justice, so I'd say 50/50.

 

What are the number now anyway? 

I don't know if it is worthwhile going down this road but... 

 

A "jury of your peers" is considered by legal philosophers as an average cross-section of society. Every society has individual biases. By trying to filter out "political bias" you are no longer reflecting the opinion of a representative cross-section of society. YOU have actually introduced the bias.

[jerrymahoney]

The Jury Of One's Peers notion comes from the 6th Amendment from the US Constitution in part:

 

Sixth Amendment  Rights in Criminal Prosecutions
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, ...

 

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/amendment-6/

 

So it's also a matter of geography.

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[2009]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

By trying to filter out "political bias" you are no longer reflecting the opinion of a representative cross-section of society.

This is a logical fallacy, lol

 

The very way juries are selected is to filter out any biases.

 

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

YOU have actually introduced the bias.

Actually, I started talking about this with a poster who suggested there shouldn't even be one MAGA person on the jury.

 

I didn't see you complain about that. Lol

 

I suggested, in response to him, that given it's the EX president and he may be running for office again today an even split jury would be fair as it's a rather unusual set of circumstances.

[Jingthing]

If a maga juror could convince the lawyers that they would not be biased toward trump that could be an exception. But magas by definition believe in insane lies such as that Trump won in 2020 and who wants insane jurors?

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

If a maga juror could convince the lawyers that they would not be biased toward trump that could be an exception. But magas by definition believe in insane lies such as that Trump won in 2020 and who wants insane jurors?

I like your reply, and it may well be a fruitless task trying to discuss things with this poster, because when I suggested in another post that Magas believe in and are driven by trump's lies, his response was.......... 

 

"What lies?". 

 

I rest my case.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I like your reply, and it may well be a fruitless task trying to discuss things with this poster, because when I suggested in another post that Magas believe in and are driven by trump's lies, his response was.......... 

 

"What lies?". 

 

I rest my case.

Exactly.

But just being a republican who voted  for Trump should not necessarily disqualify. Not all those that voted for Trump are magas. But as is obvious maga is a cult and its based on worship of a Messianic leader with the belief he can do no wrong. So magas would not be capable of being impartial jurors in a Trump case.

[Bkk Brian]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly.

But just being a republican who voted  for Trump should not necessarily disqualify. Not all those that voted for Trump are magas. But as is obvious maga is a cult and its based on worship of a Messianic leader with the belief he can do no wrong. So magas would not be capable of being impartial jurors in a Trump case.

Here's a good example of where just one true MAGA and their cult beliefs can cause a mistrial.

 

The danger of picking the wrong person was vividly illustrated in a recent federal trial of Timothy Shea, who was charged with stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from an organization that had raised money to build the border wall that Mr. Trump had campaigned on. The federal judge presiding over that case declared a mistrial after one juror out of 12 refused to deliberate, accusing the others of being “liberals” and referring to the proceedings as a “government witch hunt.”

Mr. Shea was convicted on Friday after a second trial.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/31/nyregion/trump-organization-trial-jury.html

[pomchop]

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

It is even possible for you to acknowledge what the law says about the Trump's possession vs. Biden's?

 

First off, to prove that someone is criminally responsible for not following NARA's rules, it has to be shown that the party has knowingly violated them. Got any evidence that Biden knew? There's a huge amount of evidence that Trump did. 

 

It's also a violation of the law to refuse to return documents when NARA asks for them. Did NARA ever ask Biden to return documents. Are  you going to deny that it asked Trump to do so?

 

And then there's the question of obstruction of justice. In this case, lying about possession of documents. Trump's lawyer signed a document claiming that all documents had been returned. That was false. Now, maybe, that lawyer decided all on her own to sign a document prepared by another of Trump's lawyers who just assumed that this was true without asking Trump.. Or just maybe, just possibly, might there be a scintilla of a chance that the lawyers in question actually based that letter on lies that Trump told them?

 

Not that it's even relevant, but there was no actual security for the documents apart from a CCTV video camera. No human guards were posted. And are you claiming that all the guests that enter Mar a Lago are extensively vetted as regards their backgrounds?

It is a waste of time to try and deal in facts with someone who uses terms like trump "allegedly took documents" and that said documents were stored in a "safe" environment at mar largo after docs were found even in trumps desk drawer and Mar Lago is not exactly fort knox.....which of course makes no difference as the docs were never supposed to be there anyway and were not returned when asked repeatedly and lied to repeatedly until a subpoena was required to go get the docs that trump claimed  and his lawyer swore in writing were not there......amazing how some just flat out defend the dear leader and disregard the "FACTS" that have been documented over and over.

[kwonitoy]

On 5/20/2023 at 5:54 AM, billd766 said:

Really?

 

I was under the impression that Trump's last day in office was the morning of January 6th 2020.

The office of President and Vice President officially ends at 12:00 noon on Jan 20

 

That's why you see second term winners taking the oath of office again.