Ownership nightmare: British buyer’s 15 million baht condo purchase in Koh Samui hits legal roadblock

[Older and Wiser]

3 hours ago, Banana7 said:

When buying here are some simple instructions that can save you a lot of heart ache. This is not complete list and others will have more recommendations.

 

The purchase and sale agreement must state the purchaser will receive, upon the closing date at the time of payment, the chanote with his name on the chanote and registered so, in the land office and must receive the blue book and perhaps, the yellow book, if there is one and the property is vacant upon possession. Failure by the seller to close on the closing date, seller must return double the amount of the deposit within 3 days.

 

Always ask to see the chanote and copy it before signing the purchase and sale agreement. Get copies of government IDs from everyone involved in the purchase. The current owner is listed as the last owner in the chanote. If the seller can't produce the original chanote, not a photo copy, do not make a deposit. if they can't produce the original, walk away. Go to the land office with your lawyer and ask if there are any issues with the property and transferring it to a foreigner.  The lawyer must conduct all due diligence. There are lots of little details the lawyer needs to check. Check with the condo office if there are any issues and get copies of the latest condo financial statements, before signing the purchase and sale agreement.

 

When making final payment, which should be at least 90% of the sale price, in the land office on the closing date, only give the bank draft to the owner when your lawyer says your name is on the chanote and you physically receive the chanote and blue book. Have the owner sign a photo copy of the bank draft saying they received this payment.

 

Many times foreigners are too trusting when making real estate purchases. Educate yourself before buying!

I bought a condo in South Cha-Am, agent was fellow Brit and seller was Swedish. No problems at all. Perhaps that tells you something?

[mikeymike100]

7 hours ago, off road pat said:

This is what I was always told !!! RENT !!! NEVER BUY !!! unless the money invested is unimportant and ready to be lost !!!

If you rent, the money is lost!????

[mikeymike100]

2 minutes ago, Older and Wiser said:

I bought a condo in South Cha-Am, agent was fellow Brit and seller was Swedish. No problems at all. Perhaps that tells you something?

Most purchases go thru without a hitch, if you use a reputable agent and lawyer!

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, mikeymike100 said:

If you rent, the money is lost!????

If you buy and die (and one is inevitable), the money is lost too. Could have some fun with it in the interim. 

[Bangkok Barry]

6 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

This Englisher is a fool who should be scorned and ridiculed.

 

No. The Englisher has lived his life in a country where people have morals and pretty much all the time comply with the law. He has lived his life trusting those he deals with. Different standards apply in a country riddled with corruption and scams, and his only mistake was in trusting the system.

[mikeymike100]

Just now, jacko45k said:

If you buy and die (and one is inevitable), the money is lost too. Could have some fun with it in the interim. 

Fully agree with you! Here in Thailand, what with the traffic, crazy drivers, crazy motorcyclists etc it can be risky to live here! Problem is anyone could die tomorrow, we just don't know!

[steven100]

10 minutes ago, Older and Wiser said:

I bought a condo in South Cha-Am, agent was fellow Brit and seller was Swedish. No problems at all. Perhaps that tells you something?

exactly .... never deal with Thai.

[jwest10]

12 hours ago, simon43 said:

Don't hand over any money unless you receive the full ownership documents immediately by return.  (Yes, I made this mistake 20 years ago when I handed over 2.5 million baht for a rai of land (in my Thai wife's name). The cash was handed to the lawyer in Phuket, but the Thai owner actually dropped dead of a heart attack as he was going to the land office to sign the sale papers over to my wife. The (foreign) lawyer based in Phuket handed my cash over to the owner's family and they refused to sign over the land to my wife.....  I wasted THBTHBTHB trying to complete that contract, never got ownership of the land....

Crikey and you managed to survive somehow?

[Bangkok Barry]

11 minutes ago, Paul Henry said:

If you are going to make a capital investment in Thailand you should employ a lawyer to check all documentation etc before you sign. A few thousand baht is a small amount for lawyers fees compared to you investment. This applies to many countries throughout the world.

Even Thai lawyers can't be trusted. There have been plenty of tales about that both on this site and elsewhere. Dealing with anything involving money is a minefield in Thailand.

[Henryford]

What's odd about this story is that he waited 7 years to make a fuss. I would have been on the case in 7 days.

[jonclark]

6 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

This Englisher is a fool who should be scorned and ridiculed.

 

I would have thought that the seller should be named and shamed or are we just going for the old cheap shot of victim blaming? 

 

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, jonclark said:

I would have thought that the seller should be named and shamed or are we just going for the old cheap shot of victim blaming? 

 

He is liable to the defamation law as much as the posters of these news items, and that would certainly muddy the waters of his legal efforts. Don't forget, being a liar here is not no issue, calling someone a liar (truthfully), and the wrath of the law can be upon you. 

[Aussie999]

59 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

I found Australians are just the same 

Strange how there are very few houses on the Australian market, new and used, I don't know where you get your info from, there is a housing crisis in all states... your argument is irrelevant to this article.

[Scouse123]

It just seems a bit daft a man of his age getting involved in buying a condo at that kind of money.

 

 

[steven100]

8 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

It just seems a bit daft a man of his age getting involved in buying a condo at that kind of money.

 

 

that's not the issue here ....    it's the non-legalities of doing business in this shady country that's of concern.

[David Whitemore]

15 million that's a very expensive condo, but no surprise you been scammed Thailand people are very good at that if they see a easy target

[quake]

14 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

It just seems a bit daft a man of his age getting involved in buying a condo at that kind of money.

 

 

+1.

That much money at that age. not the best choice.

[murraynz]

6 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I understand people who have no money, no other options, they always make excuses not to buy.

 

I live in a gated community, close to town. I bought my first house 2001, second house a couple of years later, me and my family have been living in this house ever since (renting out the first house). 

I've calculated, rents and renovations etc. I'm way ahead, house price has increased, so have rents over the last 2 decades.

 

I'd hate to think how many times me and my family would have had to relocate over the many years (landlord issues etc.) plus I've got the house exactly how I want it. 

You are correct... It's mostly people who have NO money,  that make claims that it's better to rent it buy. 

I bought my condo, which is far more secure that 'buying' Thai land.. 

[blackshadow]

8 hours ago, off road pat said:

This is what I was always told !!! RENT !!! NEVER BUY !!! unless the money invested is unimportant and ready to be lost !!!

i bought my 2 roomed condo in 2009 never had any problem/s

[mikeymike100]

20 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

It just seems a bit daft a man of his age getting involved in buying a condo at that kind of money.

 

 

His money, surely he can do what he wants with it?

[JonnyF]

12 hours ago, Chicksaw said:

Moral of the story: Rent, don't buy. At least not anything bigger than a washing machine.

Totally disagree.

 

I rented for my first 10 years here. Millions of Baht down the drain in rent. Landlords not returning deposits. Landlords coming into the property when I wasn't there. Putting up the rent. Threatening to kick me out so a friend could move in etc.

 

I bought 7 years ago in Bangkok and couldn't be happier. Decorated exactly how I like it, no more rent payments, no landlord bothering me, no threats to kick me out or increase the rent at the end of the contract. A rent free base in Asia for the rest of my life. Very glad I made the decision. 

[SAFETY FIRST]

2 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Never buy off plan

I bought most of my Thai properties of the plan. 

 

I have not had any issues or regrets. 

 

[tgw]

4 hours ago, Frankie baby said:

Apparently this gentle did as everyone above advised. He did this through a lawyer and a supposedly reputable land developer.

The system stinks. Its about time the government took real action against these developers (and bum lawyers). This was a common occurrence 15-20 years back. Looks like the preventative measures took then have worn off.  

no, I don't think so.

I think the lawyer he used was obviously not up to scratch because otherwise he would have spotted the deficiencies with land type, construction permit, etc. or I suspect he hired the lawyer only for the transaction itself, not for carrying out due diligence.

[harry94]

6 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I understand people who have no money, no other options, they always make excuses not to buy.

 

I live in a gated community, close to town. I bought my first house 2001, second house a couple of years later, me and my family have been living in this house ever since (renting out the first house). 

I've calculated, rents and renovations etc. I'm way ahead, house price has increased, so have rents over the last 2 decades.

 

I'd hate to think how many times me and my family would have had to relocate over the many years (landlord issues etc.) plus I've got the house exactly how I want it. 

Alien stamped in your passport should explain where you stand .

[tgw]

10 hours ago, tgw said:

some rules:

- have a reputable real estate lawyer do all the due diligence (construction permit, check property deeds, does the seller actually own what he sells, is it free of mortgages, right of passage, correct land category, certificates of conformity of the construction, etc.)

- don't buy any expensive real estate that doesn't have a Chanote (lower grade titles can be ok for some agricultural land)

- use cashier cheques

- simultaneous transactions and transfer papers signed with witnesses at the land office only

there is someone who always reacts with a confused emoticon to all my posts, even such clear-cut ones as this, lol. ????

[jak2002003]

7 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I bought most of my Thai properties of the plan. 

 

I have not had any issues or regrets. 

 

It's the luck of the draw. 

 

We bought 2 condos. One in no problems at all and we are very happy with it.  

 

The other... we have been conned similar to the man in the OP.  We now have a hotel renting out our condo and taking all the money whike we have no access to it and no title deeds. 

 

These con people are very clever...that is how they can do these things.  It's easy to make comments when you have no personal experience.

 

And yes, we even had a lawyer look over everything and all the contracts signed... Makes no difference. 

 

Very stressful and depressing. The lawyers and the con artists have ways to drag it out for ever.. All the time making money out of us. 

 

Now we are going to just walk away. 

[Captain Monday]

13 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I bought most of my Thai properties of the plan. 

 

I have not had any issues or regrets. 

 

Good for you

I bought used Thai condo. After staying in a borrowed room sevral times 2 doors down in high season and low season. Still I never ever invested more than I could afford to lose.

 

[Wiggy]

8 hours ago, off road pat said:

This is what I was always told !!! RENT !!! NEVER BUY !!! unless the money invested is unimportant and ready to be lost !!!

Rent money is money lost forever. 

[stix40]

Fools and Money are soon parted !

[Banana7]

2 hours ago, Darksidedude said:

you need a good lawyer to do all the checks otherwise forget it, i have been using the same one for 20 years 50 k baht cost is worth it 

WOW! I only paid 5,000 baht for my lawyer. My friend also paid 5,000 for his condo. I found the lawyer in the Pattaya land office settling another property sale.