COVID makes comeback in Thailand as booster fatigue leaves door open

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

As I said, whether this was malice, incompetence, or both, we won't find out for a few years yet.

No, it was a few isolated instances of a few politicians or government officials slightly overstating the details of the very good benefits that the COVID vaccines were expected to accomplish.

 

Which, in my view, is a whole lot more acceptable than others in the political realm who publicly promoted unproven and dangerous medications that led to people poisoning themselves thinking that they were taking COVID cures/treatments.

 

Save your outrage for where it's truly deserved.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

The science didn't change.

 

Even novice virologists know that respiratory viruses, by their nature, evolve quickly and become less controllable by vaccines. Influenza and the common cold have demonstrated this with crystal clarity for decades.

 

The 'advice' given in the early phases of the pandemic, with their blanket 100% vaccination guarantee, omitted this simple and obvious caveat to vaccine efficiency.

 

As I said, whether this was malice, incompetence, or both, we won't find out for a few years yet.

 

Of course the science changed, the evidence was in the studies they carried out to prove it. Hence the evolving advice given. Flu by the way is not a coronavirus

[jaywalker2]

On 6/2/2023 at 8:32 AM, ThailandRyan said:

It appears that Thailand is not alone with rising cases.  It appears they are increasing in many places, but it was to be expected.  Since Covid is now endemic we will see these fluctuations yearly during the certain seasons which we see increases for other illnesses occur.  Could be a myriad of reasons.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases

I made it through the the 20-21 outbreaks and thought I was in the clear. Ended up getting it anyway just a few months ago. I never got any boosters and it was mild but then the girlfriend and her whole family go it. I became convinced that everybody is going to get it. And I haven't had the flu in more than 10 years.

[MrJ2U]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:13 AM, mfd101 said:

Ditto for Surin/Buriram ...

Same in Sakon Nakhon.

 

Bit we're the last to get anything if at all. 

[sidneybear]

9 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

They're rebooting their repressive agendas.

Standing by.....

Yes, we'd better brace ourselves for being ordered around by Big Brother, and his willing army of Stasi-styled wannabes. 

[onthedarkside]

troll post with unsubstantiated claims removed

[jacko45k]

On 6/3/2023 at 8:26 PM, dinsdale said:

Can the same be said for the covid vaccinations? 

Probably yes, with the millions that have been administered, some people on their 4th or fifth and still alive.

[Jael]

On 6/2/2023 at 11:51 AM, Kaopad999 said:

I must admit that the current mass hysteria here is starting to wear me down. 

Don't let zombies get ya

[lessismore]

11 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

No, it was a few isolated instances of a few politicians or government officials slightly overstating the details of the very good benefits that the COVID vaccines were expected to accomplish.

 

Which, in my view, is a whole lot more acceptable than others in the political realm who publicly promoted unproven and dangerous medications that led to people poisoning themselves thinking that they were taking COVID cures/treatments.

 

Save your outrage for where it's truly deserved.

 

 

It was not just a few. When the vaccine came out you could see hundred of government officials claiming that the vaccine will stop Covid and that we will soon go back to normal life.

 

For example, here's Fauci on the 10.12.2020 claiming that herd immunity will be reached if 75 to 80% of the population would be vaccinated (at 0:45).

 

Source: 

 

 

Then, here's what we learn from Janine Small, president of international markets at Pfizer, on the 10.10.2022 at the European Parliament:

"Pfizer did not know whether its COVID-19 vaccine prevented transmission of the virus before it entered the market in December 2020."

Source: 

 

 

 

Then, tell me how could Fauci make this statement about herd immunity in december 2020, since he had absolutely no data about transmission ?

 

So, TallGuyJohninBKK, if you want to call this "slightly overstating", it's up to you, but I don't share your point of view.

 

[KC 71]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:27 PM, Paradise Pete said:

If I could get a vaccine for dengue I'd take that too.

There are  currently hundreds of new MRNA vaccines in the making

so you wont have to worry on that

[rabas]

43 minutes ago, lessismore said:

 

Then, here's what we learn from Janine Small, president of international markets at Pfizer, on the 10.10.2022 at the European Parliament:

"Pfizer did not know whether its COVID-19 vaccine prevented transmission of the virus before it entered the market in December 2020."

Source: 

 

 

 

Then, tell me how could Fauci make this statement about herd immunity in december 2020, since he had absolutely no data about transmission ?

 

So, TallGuyJohninBKK, if you want to call this "slightly overstating", it's up to you, but I don't share your point of view.

Your post misrepresents the question in the video, as did the politician asking it!  Here is the cold, non-agendized science.

 

During initial vaccine trials, neither Pfizer nor Moderna performed extensive tests to medically prove no transmission because the tests are expensive and time consuming. Nor were these tests necessary.

 

However, the extremely high observed efficacy rates, > 90%, leaves no doubt the vaccines prevent a high infection rate for early variants. It's a duh moment. The Israeli nationwide trial clearly showed a large reduction in transmission.

 

This has all been discussed and fact checked, which you must have missed.

 

So why were they ultimately wrong in the long run?  Because of SARS2's unusual and unexpected infectivity and mutation rates. 

 

 

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, KC 71 said:

There are  currently hundreds of new MRNA vaccines in the making

so you wont have to worry on that

Indeed!

 

Including a jab to stop the weight challenged craving food and insomnia.

 

A wonderful jab-future awaits us.

[h90]

12 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Indeed!

 

Including a jab to stop the weight challenged craving food and insomnia.

 

A wonderful jab-future awaits us.

A jab a day and a vaccine passport big as an old phone book

[rabas]

54 minutes ago, h90 said:

A jab a day and a vaccine passport big as an old phone book

Used to be an apple a day.

 

The good news is that apples have TONS of mRNA...

[lessismore]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Because of SARS2's unusual and unexpected infectivity and mutation rates. 

 

 

Nothing unusual there:

https://www.livescience.com/does-covid-have-more-varients-than-other-viruses

[onthedarkside]

A reminder that this is a Thailand related thread and certainly nothing to do with Fauci. Please keep on topic going forward.

 

Topic

COVID makes comeback in Thailand as booster fatigue leaves door open

 

A comment on moderation has also been removed

 

[h90]

36 minutes ago, rabas said:

Used to be an apple a day.

 

The good news is that apples have TONS of mRNA...

I rarely injected apples

[rabas]

1 hour ago, lessismore said:

Nothing unusual there:

https://www.livescience.com/does-covid-have-more-varients-than-other-viruses

You address what I never said!  Like if I say "this is a tall grass" then you claim trees are taller. True, but meh...

 

OK, the science.  I said The SARS-2 betacoronavirus that originated in Wuhan and its derivatives eventually proved to be much more infective and mutated faster than scientists expected for a coronavirus. Many papers and lots of cool graphs discuss this, especially Omicron, which now holds the record for the fastest spreading virus ever and a mutational nightmare.

 

As hard proof, scientists have now discovered at least one biological reason for SARS-2's unusual mutation ability, which proves the point. read here

 

"Researchers have found the first experimental evidence explaining why the COVID-19 virus produces variants, such as delta and omicron, so quickly."

 

the underlying publication

[Paradise Pete]

11 hours ago, KC 71 said:

There are  currently hundreds of new MRNA vaccines in the making

so you wont have to worry on that

Yes. Despite the naysayers, MRNA vaccines are and will be a boon to society. One of the most beneficial health advances ever was the invention of vaccines, and this is the next generation of that.

[Danderman123]

On 6/5/2023 at 7:08 PM, Eleftheros said:

I am sure that you know as well is I do that extremely senior members of the US Government, the leading health authorities and their toadies in the media, all made statements to the effect that the vaccines provided absolute 100% protection from infection and transmission of Covid-19.

 

You will have seen the videos of them saying exactly that, just as I and millions of other people have.

 

The statements about 100% effectiveness were flat-out wrong. Whether they already knew what they were saying was wrong depends on whether they were acting maliciously or were plain incompetent. Or both.

 

 

You are bouncing around, between claiming that government authorities made incorrect statements about vaccines, to claims that the medical community is wrong about vaccination.

 

Bottom line: vaccination protects against Covid infection, the degree of protection depends on the particular variant.

[Danderman123]

21 hours ago, h90 said:

A jab a day and a vaccine passport big as an old phone book

It looks like it's going to be one booster per year.

[Pink Mist]

Troll posts have been removed, both for baiting content 

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

As we have discussed before it was only a matter of time before an annual boost/vaccination for Covid would be developed and needed.  Still waiting to see what the actual language will say.  The articles below indicate the need for simplification much like is already done on an annual basis with the flu vaccine and others. Just proposals but I venture to say they will see the light of day

 

https://creakyjoints.org/living-with-arthritis/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/fda-simplify-covid-strategy/

 

Experts believe this is one step toward creating an annual COVID-19 shot for most Americans. In another proposed new plan, an annual vaccine dose would be matched to circulating strains of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, similar to the flu shot, per STAT News. Two doses would be given to immunocompromised individuals, older people, and children.

 

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20230124/fda-wants-an-annual-covid-vaccine

 

Having an annual COVID-19 shot, alongside the flu shot, could make it simpler for doctors and health care providers to share vaccination recommendations and reminders, according to Leana Wen, MD, a public health professor at George Washington University and former Baltimore health commissioner.

“It would be easier [for primary care doctors and other health care providers] to encourage our patients to get one set of annual shots, rather than to count the number of boosters or have two separate shots that people have to obtain,” she says.

[Eleftheros]

10 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Bottom line: vaccination protects against Covid infection, the degree of protection depends on the particular variant.

Yes, but health authorities should have known - must have known - that any claims of absolute 100% protection against infection and transmission for a rapidly evolving respiratory virus had to be incorrect.

 

Yet that did not stop them flooding the airwaves with statements to that effect, and then using those statements as a basis for subsequent public policy.

 

That is why I characterize them as incompetent, malicious, or both.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Eleftheros said:

Yes, but health authorities should have known - must have known - that any claims of absolute 100% protection against infection and transmission for a rapidly evolving respiratory virus had to be incorrect.

 

Sure, EVERYONE was saying 100%.... everywhere you went back then... Just look at the headlines   ????. Who could have thought otherwise???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Source link:

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Personally, rather than fixating on partisan political minutiae, I'd prefer to look at what the COVID vaccines really accomplished in the U.S., regardless of what anyone predicted back at the time:

 

COVID Vaccines Saved More Than 3 Million U.S. Lives Since 2020

"Dec. 13, 2022 – COVID-19 vaccinations prevented 3.2 million deaths and 18.5 million hospitalizations in the United States from December 2020 through November 2022, according to a new report Tuesday from the Commonwealth Fund and Yale School of Public Health.

 

The report, developed from computer modeling, comes as the U.S. approaches the second anniversary of the administration of the first COVID vaccine in the country to nurse Sandra Lindsay on Dec. 14, 2020.

 

Cost savings from those averted medical expenses add up to $1.15 trillion in savings to the U.S. health system, according to the report by a team led by Meagan C. Fitzpatrick, PhD, with the Center for Vaccine Development and Global Health at University of Maryland in Baltimore."

 

(more)

 

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20221213/covid-vaccines-saved-more-than-3-million-us-lives

 

The above outcome is what matters. The rest is just predictable anti-vax noise.

 

 

 

 

[Eleftheros]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Sure, EVERYONE was saying 100%..

You know as well as I do that the people who made policy in the US, that is the leading health bureaucrats and the politicians whom they advised, said it publicly loud and often, and based policy on that.

 

To deny that is truly to try to defend the indefensible.

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

You know as well as I do that the people who made policy in the US, that is the leading health bureaucrats and the politicians whom they advised, said it publicly loud and often, and based policy on that.

 

To deny that is truly to try to defend the indefensible.

A handful of people said that, we all know and we all know that in just about every other country that was not said. We also know that every single scientific study did not claim that. You can clutch at straws because of those handful in the US but it shows your desperation.

 

EDIT getting back on topic, it was also not claimed in Thailand

[Eleftheros]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

A handful of people said that,

Excuse me, they weren't just "a handful of people".

 

They were the leaders of the country and thus the people who decided subsequent policy based on those false claims.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Excuse me, they weren't just "a handful of people".

 

They were the leaders of the country and thus the people who decided subsequent policy based on those false claims.

You are excused, in the UK that was never claimed, in Thailand it was never claimed in just about every other country it was never claimed yet public policy was still the same as in the US if not stricter. Again clutching at straws.