Fluorescent Light Problem

[doctormann]

This one is maybe for Crossy.

 

I have a circular 32W fluorescent light that has suddenly failed.  Over the years I have had several fluorescent lamp failures but nothing like this one.  No flickering or flashing as is often the case when the tube or starter fails - this one just quit suddenly, when in use, and now seems completely dead.  ChatGPT, for what it's worth, reckons that the ballast has died.  A replacement from Lazada costs almost as much as a whole new light fitting so I'm considering converting the fitting to use a LED module.  Any thoughts?

 

Probably a simple job except that its going to involve a very long stepladder ladder (cathedral ceiling) and at my advanced state of decrepitude I don't do those any more!  I'll have to find a volunteer.

[KannikaP]

18 minutes ago, doctormann said:

so I'm considering converting the fitting to use a LED module.  Any thoughts?

Yes, do it.

[MrJ2U]

9 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Yes, do it.

And hire a young man with a bamboo ladder to put it in.  

[KannikaP]

44 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

And hire a young man with a bamboo ladder to put it in.  

And get a wifi controlled RGB jobbie so then it can be any colour you want, and on/off from your phone.

[MrJ2U]

27 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

And get a wifi controlled RGB jobbie so then it can be any colour you want, and on/off from your phone.

Might as well get the Bluetooth speaker/LED light combo. 

 

(Picture for reference only).

 

 

[doctormann]

Thanks for the responses.

[sometimewoodworker]

You can get LED replacements for about 200 Baht from any of the big stores.

[dingdongrb]

I personally think installing a primo disco ball would be your best option.

[billd766]

As my fluorescent tubes fail I get them replaced by the LED versions. I do have a stepladder and an 18 year old son who replaces them.

 

Sadly he goes off to uni in August, so somebody else will have to do the grunt work. At 79 and with a balance problem, I don't climb steps.

 

The short (2 foot) LED fittings I buy in the local hardware shop complete for around 150 thb. The bigger 4 foot ones are around 300 or so baht.

[doctormann]

1 hour ago, dingdongrb said:

I personally think installing a primo disco ball would be your best option.

Just slightly OTT, I think!

[doctormann]

16 minutes ago, billd766 said:

As my fluorescent tubes fail I get them replaced by the LED versions. I do have a stepladder and an 18 year old son who replaces them.

 

Sadly he goes off to uni in August, so somebody else will have to do the grunt work. At 79 and with a balance problem, I don't climb steps.

 

The short (2 foot) LED fittings I buy in the local hardware shop complete for around 150 thb. The bigger 4 foot ones are around 300 or so baht.

I have the same problem with balance now.  Just a year younger than you and everything is falling apart!

[billd766]

19 minutes ago, doctormann said:

I have the same problem with balance now.  Just a year younger than you and everything is falling apart!

One year ago I could sit outside, look at the grass growing and cut it for an hour in the mornings 5 days a week. Now I sit outside and look at the grass growing and wonder when my wife can find somebody to cut it.

 

I need to get a brush to see my stepladders now as they are covered in cobwebs.

 

It IS an age thing.

[sirineou]

Put the fluorescent light  with your VHS tapes in a safe place , they might be worth something someday

Replace it with a LED not only they have become very expensive but they will quickly pay  for themselves from the reductions in your electric bill and their longevity. 

"

Which is cheaper to run LED or fluorescent?
Why choose LED and how much do I save? Using LED, you will save 62% in costs. An LED bulb will actually use 75% less energy on average compared to a standard fluorescent bulb. LED lighting can be more expensive initially when buying the bulbs, however, in the long run they will save you money

"https://electriciancourses4u.co.uk/blog/led-vs-fluorescent/#:~:text=Why choose LED and how,they will save you money.

[xtrnuno41]

In lazada came upon this one and there are more

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/led-9w-18w-t8-full-set-hot-i4602951278.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.129.932d1c2etbpqtB

Otherwise go shopping in Thaiwatsadu, Homepro, Global house or any other store. 

So very cheap, i do see others way more expensive, no clue why.

Problem you could have with a new one, ceiling connection (screws) are on wrong place. You have to align that again. Drilling new holes in your new light.

Or, there are fixtures with a bracket, so you have some space to move around.

However then there is a little space between ceiling and light which can get dirty.

 

Yes you can change existing TL wiring to LED wiring. There are sets with a so called "starter dummy", it just connects the 2 pins together.

However you have a problem of light not working, so also can be done without that dummy. would leave the ballast untouched (not take it out), also not the starter fitting ( otherwise you have a hole not using a starter dummy) just taking the wires to reconnect different way.

Doing all above your head is exhausting, well all the work above you is.

It must be a very special lighting holder to have all this work done, a new one is way easier. I put schematic on wiring of the situations. The black blobs are the connections to be made. Keep the existing wiring as long as possible , so short cutting from the items (starter, ballast)to have as long wiring as possible. 

Only one side is used to connect LED light tube. 

[JustThisOnePostOnly]

Just wanted to say, the mirror balls are incomplete without a bubble machine.

 

A bubble machine is exactly what it sounds like, it's a machine that makes bubbles.

 

The light reflects off of the mirror balls and then is refracted by the bubbles and it presents an impressive display, at least as impressive as a fluorescent light fixture or even two.

[doctormann]

10 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

In lazada came upon this one and there are more

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/led-9w-18w-t8-full-set-hot-i4602951278.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.129.932d1c2etbpqtB

Otherwise go shopping in Thaiwatsadu, Homepro, Global house or any other store. 

So very cheap, i do see others way more expensive, no clue why.

Problem you could have with a new one, ceiling connection (screws) are on wrong place. You have to align that again. Drilling new holes in your new light.

Or, there are fixtures with a bracket, so you have some space to move around.

However then there is a little space between ceiling and light which can get dirty.

 

Yes you can change existing TL wiring to LED wiring. There are sets with a so called "starter dummy", it just connects the 2 pins together.

However you have a problem of light not working, so also can be done without that dummy. would leave the ballast untouched (not take it out), also not the starter fitting ( otherwise you have a hole not using a starter dummy) just taking the wires to reconnect different way.

Doing all above your head is exhausting, well all the work above you is.

It must be a very special lighting holder to have all this work done, a new one is way easier. I put schematic on wiring of the situations. The black blobs are the connections to be made. Keep the existing wiring as long as possible , so short cutting from the items (starter, ballast)to have as long wiring as possible. 

Only one side is used to connect LED light tube. 

I think that the easiest way, for a basic replacement, is just to fit a LED module.  You scrap the existing ballast etc and just connect the new module to the mains supply.  The rest of the existing hardware is retained.  The LED module supposedly has magnetic attachments so, assuming that the existing base is ferromagnetic, there is no need for drilling new holes.

 

This one is from Philips.  225 Baht from Lazada

 

 

[bluejets]

One final note.......most LED internals will never last any where near what the older units would.

Be prepared to replace at more shorter intervals.

It is rarely the LEDs themselves but moreso the driver unit. 

[doctormann]

3 minutes ago, bluejets said:

One final note.......most LED internals will never last any where near what the older units would.

Be prepared to replace at more shorter intervals.

It is rarely the LEDs themselves but moreso the driver unit. 

Rated at 20,000 hours but, of course, that assumes continuous use.  In practice, with normal on/off cycles you would probably achieve nothing like that.  As you say, it's the driver units that fail.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

36 minutes ago, bluejets said:

One final note.......most LED internals will never last any where near what the older units would.

Be prepared to replace at more shorter intervals.

It is rarely the LEDs themselves but moreso the driver unit. 

That is a rather broad and mostly incorrect statement.

having had a reasonable number of LED lights fail and autopsied them in almost every case one of the LEDs in one of the LED packages failed, so far it hasn’t been the driver, 

The reason for failure is mostly that the LEDs are driven hard so reducing the life span, along with the way they are designed is that they are mostly in series so a LED single failure in the hundred or more will kill the lamp. Certainly drivers fail, more in the cheaper and older lights, but rarely in the more expensive ones and newer models. 
 

As the understanding of the technology develops drivers and lights can have fewer components and fewer LED packages and the LEDs can be driven harder so being made cheaper and cheaper, if there is no redundancy a single point failure will kill the whole light.

 

So if you have the knowledge to modify your lights, under run them and you can have a light that will run for 10 years 24/7/365. 

[bluejets]

On 6/13/2023 at 9:37 AM, doctormann said:

Rated at 20,000 hours but, of course, that assumes continuous use.  In practice, with normal on/off cycles you would probably achieve nothing like that.  As you say, it's the driver units that fail.

Yes, just sales pitch.

Currently you may notice that the lifespan claims have been removed from many.

Probably as they had their ass sued for making false or unsubstantiated claims.

 

On 6/13/2023 at 10:30 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

That is a rather broad and mostly incorrect statement.

No, that is taken from everyday experience as I am qualified in and work in the industry every day, unlike some who simply "think" they know all the answers.

Edited June 14, 2023 by bluejets

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, bluejets said:

On 6/13/2023 at 7:30 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

That is a rather broad and mostly incorrect statement.

No, that is taken from everyday experience

Your everyday experience is remarkable different from my everyday experience.

 

3 hours ago, bluejets said:

I am qualified in and work in the industry every day

That demonstrates that you are working with the lowest cost bidders.

3 hours ago, bluejets said:

unlike some who simply "think" they know all the answers.

Some may think that, I don’t. I do know of the items I talk about, this is rather different to others who think that just because they have experience in a particular geographic area that it is automatically the same in other areas

[Muhendis]

On 6/13/2023 at 7:30 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

so far it hasn’t been the driver,

Aha.

So.

We can't accept the normal brake failure excuse.

[Crossy]

Flame removed and thread closed.