water heater trouble

[tgw]

I got trouble with a water heater.

 

For a long time already it had intermittent problems, I had to periodically push some kind of safety button inside the water heater assembly to make it work again.

Type:

earlier model of this one: https://www.thaiwatsadu.com/th/product/เครื่องทำน้ำร้อน-6000-วัตต์-MEX-รุ่น-CENTRI-6R-สีเงิน-60269469

 

Yesterday, the heater made boiling noises and then the stop valve blew, inundating my bathroom.

The valve looked pretty much like this one (it's in pieces now).

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/stop-valve-whm4501-12-4-i2907633717-s10639682961.html

 

I'd like to ask if a bad valve could cause the water heater to behave as it did ?

 

[NanLaew]

That "stop valve" has an integrated sediment filter that should be periodically checked and cleaned.

 

Either way, with the earlier tripping of the unit and sounds of overheating, I would recommend a complete replacement.

[KhunBENQ]

This valve had been attached to the inlet of the heater?

It is a 6kW heater. Quite powerful type.

Was it recommend to have such a valve attached? I would think that the 6 kW heater needs all water pressure/flow available.

From the debris can you check whether the filters were clogged?

 

Why the safety breaker (ELCB) triggered is unclear to me but quite alarming. Potential hazard.

[worgeordie]

If the button was popping out , you have a short somewhere in the heater, 

you need to buy new one , they are too dangerous to mess about with a

faulty heater.

 

A tenant called me to say he had problem with water heater , so I went 

around , and like yours the safety button was popping ,opened it up and

water was leaking from heater unit on to the electrical connection ,I said

how long has it been like this , a week he said , I have just been keeping

the button in while I shower !!!, 

 

regards Worgeordie

[KhunBENQ]

8 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

I have just been keeping

the button in while I shower !!!, 

Sometimes one can't believe how careless people are.

If the oil pressure lamp at the car is on will they cover it with tape?

[tgw]

10 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

If the button was popping out , you have a short somewhere in the heater, 

you need to buy new one , they are too dangerous to mess about with a

faulty heater.

 

A tenant called me to say he had problem with water heater , so I went 

around , and like yours the safety button was popping ,opened it up and

water was leaking from heater unit on to the electrical connection ,I said

how long has it been like this , a week he said , I have just been keeping

the button in while I shower !!!, 

 

regards Worgeordie

thanks for the answers so far.

 

the heater is not located inside the shower as it serves shower and a tap.

 

I don't think it was the electrical safety that was triggered. The button that pops outside the heater is not the one I was pushing to get it working again, the one I mean is located directly on the boiler unit, maybe it is some kind of temperature safety to avoid overheating or excessive pressure?

Edited June 14, 2023 by tgw

[tgw]

14 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

That "stop valve" has an integrated sediment filter that should be periodically checked and cleaned.

 

Either way, with the earlier tripping of the unit and sounds of overheating, I would recommend a complete replacement.

could not find a sediment filter.

[petermik]

41 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Sometimes one can't believe how careless people are.

If the oil pressure lamp at the car is on will they cover it with tape?

So it doesn`t distract them whilst driving...safety issue

[KhunBENQ]

46 minutes ago, tgw said:

could not find a sediment filter.

From the Lazada site that you linked:

 

[SomchaiDIY]

46 minutes ago, tgw said:

I don't think it was the electrical safety that was triggered. The button that pops outside the heater is not the one I was pushing to get it working again, the one I mean is located directly on the boiler unit, maybe it is some kind of temperature safety to avoid overheating or excessive pressure?

you reset overheat button on heater

 

the mex heater is electronic control with electronic water flow sensor

 

if flow sensor have fault heater can lose the control and overheat

 

other electronic fault also can make the same problem

 

possible best call service for this heater in bangkok
 

[ExpatOilWorker]

The filter is on the inlet side of your heater.

CENTRI_6R1.pdf

[tgw]

10 minutes ago, SomchaiDIY said:

you reset overheat button on heater

 

the mex heater is electronic control with electronic water flow sensor

 

if flow sensor have fault heater can lose the control and overheat

 

other electronic fault also can make the same problem

 

possible best call service for this heater in bangkok

I have another heater of the same brand and model which is showing the same symptoms.

 

So I guess the water flow sensors are faulty on both ?

 

These heaters are 8 or 9 years old.

 

The stop valve on the other heater seems to have issues too. I can turn it only with great difficulty.

 

So that's why I want to ask if a faulty valve can cause a water heater to overheat ?

 

It looks like the heater is now leaky too.

For the moment I solved the issue with a bypass - but I have to shower cold.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by tgw

[SomchaiDIY]

26 minutes ago, tgw said:

So that's why I want to ask if a faulty valve can cause a water heater to overheat ?

these heater measure temperature of water with thermistor sensor

 

these heater measure flow of water with turbine sensor

 

electronic circuit of heater use this sensor for heat control

 

important this sensor clear from water contaminations

 

if inlet filter block or valve fault flow sensor can stop heater

 

if flow sensor faulty electronic control cannot stop heater

 

possible heaters have other fault i give only common fault from tech forum

[KhunBENQ]

17 minutes ago, SomchaiDIY said:

if flow sensor faulty electronic control cannot stop heater

That would explain the boiling sound...

Never would I use this heater before being checked by a technician.

As recommended: replace ASAP. Could then check the thing at a shop.

[tgw]

it seems Mex and Rinnai share a lot of components

[lopburi3]

56 minutes ago, tgw said:

The stop valve on the other heater seems to have issues too. I can turn it only with great difficulty.

As said before the stop valve on input side of such heaters normally also have a sediment filter which needs to be opened and cleaned occasionally.  If valve is hard to turn could indicate full of dirt/sand and restricting water flow - which in turn could cause overheating if a fault in sensor.  Is you water flow with just shower head much stronger now that unit bypassed?

 

But these are normally inexpensive units so probably best to replace - they are rated for multi point use?  Most units sold in Thailand are single point only and should not be used with shower and tap.

[tgw]

6 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

As said before the stop valve on input side of such heaters normally also have a sediment filter which needs to be opened and cleaned occasionally.  If valve is hard to turn could indicate full of dirt/sand and restricting water flow - which in turn could cause overheating if a fault in sensor.  Is you water flow with just shower head much stronger now that unit bypassed?

 

But these are normally inexpensive units so probably best to replace - they are rated for multi point use?  Most units sold in Thailand are single point only and should not be used with shower and tap.

yes, multipoint, check the link in my first post.

this isn't exactly an inexpensive unit, 6000W, costs around 5000-6000 baht.

 

water flow is now stronger of course, the water passage in the stop valve was tiny.

 

 

[lopburi3]

8 minutes ago, tgw said:

yes, multipoint, check the link in my first post.

this isn't exactly an inexpensive unit, 6000W, costs around 5000-6000 baht.

 

water flow is now stronger of course, the water passage in the stop valve was tiny.

 

 

Just found on Lazada price 4,300 baht so may want to check that out - yes multi point on that site also.  As only 2 year (5 for boiler) guarantee looks like best to replace.  Was thinking of units I had bought of lower wattage and less than 2k on sale when mentioned cheap - did not know they made as many types.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/mex-0-10-mex-multi-point-centri-6r-6000w-i4613832008-s18917064167.html?

 

Edit:  After closer check above seller seems to be "new" so might not be available - most seem to sell around 6k.

Edited June 14, 2023 by lopburi3

[tgw]

12 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Just found on Lazada price 4,300 baht so may want to check that out - yes multi point on that site also.  As only 2 year (5 for boiler) guarantee looks like best to replace.  Was thinking of units I had bought of lower wattage and less than 2k on sale when mentioned cheap - did not know they made as many types.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/mex-0-10-mex-multi-point-centri-6r-6000w-i4613832008-s18917064167.html?

 

Edit:  After closer check above seller seems to be "new" so might not be available - most seem to sell around 6k.

yes, the offer seems to be dodgy - there is mention of cashback coins in the description, probably some kind of scam.

 

this one seems to share the same components:

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/rinnai-nippon600mp-multi-point-i1440360473-s3739038173.html

[tgw]

very strange I can't order anything from Lazada now - site keeps saying there is a problem on their side, I should try later

 

I'm unable to buy any of these, lol

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/rinnai-nippon600mp-multi-point-i1440360473-s3739038173.html

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/rinnai-nippon600mp-6000-moderntools-official-i634110410-s1216474615.html

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/rinnai-nippon600mp-6000-i2998685035-s10993852363.html

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/rinnai-nippon600mp-6000-ski-official-i3945016264-s15315806924.html

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by tgw

[petermik]

I just clicked a link and alls fine on Lazada.......

[tgw]

1 minute ago, petermik said:

I just clicked a link and alls fine on Lazada.......

all is fine until "place order"

[petermik]

Just now, tgw said:

all is fine until "place order"

I got to place order ok but obviously I,m not going to so I cannot help further....try putting it in your cart and try again perhaps?

[tgw]

1 minute ago, petermik said:

I got to place order ok but obviously I,m not going to so I cannot help further....try putting it in your cart and try again perhaps?

I got an error message on all my orders.

There were 6 orders with status "pending, awaiting payment".

It seems all my orders were registered, but without a payment method.

I had to go into "my orders", select "pay now" and then select "cash on delivery". Very strange.

[tgw]

is it normal for water heaters to die after 6, 7 or 8 years of use ?

[petermik]

Just now, tgw said:

I got an error message on all my orders.

There were 6 orders with status "pending, awaiting payment".

It seems all my orders were registered, but without a payment method.

I had to go into "my orders", select "pay now" and then select "cash on delivery". Very strange.

not really there are various ways you can pay but you have to name which method you choose...sorted now?

[petermik]

Just now, tgw said:

is it normal for water heaters to die after 6, 7 or 8 years of use ?

some die earlier.........how long is a piece of string?

Edited June 14, 2023 by petermik

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, tgw said:

yes, multipoint, check the link in my first post.

this isn't exactly an inexpensive unit, 6000W, costs around 5000-6000 baht.

 

water flow is now stronger of course, the water passage in the stop valve was tiny.

 

 

Both heaters are 8 or 9 years old and both have a safety problem. Two new, safe ones would be 10-12k baht but maybe you are planning on dying soon anyway.

[NanLaew]

33 minutes ago, tgw said:

is it normal for water heaters to die after 6, 7 or 8 years of use ?

A lot can depend on their running hours and the quality of the water. Your second heater had a valve that was hard to turn suggests that you may have hard water which means the heating element could also be well 'caked' and that's causing the boiling noises and/or drawing extra current causing the trips?

 

I don't recommend Mex but have had good experience with Ariston multi-point and more recently Midea single-point shower units.

 

Good luck with your new purchases.

[lopburi3]

If you do not require multi point (normally cool water is fine for tap) would just use normal single point of use heaters for shower myself - have never found multi point working right, be it in hotels/hospitals or other places - as a guess the low water pressure here causes issues with heating control - but all I know for sure is places using had issues of no hot water or it being boiling hot - perhaps because cold water just not cold enough.