Some of the stories now emerging from the boat disaster off Greece

[Social Media]

Some of the stories now emerging from the boat disaster off Greece on Wednesday morning create a picture of unthinkably horrific conditions onboard.

 

Up to 500 people are missing after an overcrowded fishing boat carrying migrants capsized in the Mediterranean Sea, the United Nations has said.

 

Authorities rescued 104 people and recovered 78 bodies in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy, but nothing has been found since.

Witness accounts suggested 400-700 people had packed the 20-30m-long trawler, which capsized and sank about 50 miles from the southern coastal town of Pylos as it was travelling from Libya to Italy.

 

[Eleftheros]

Why do governments spend so much money and time fighting their "War on Drugs", while relegating the "War on People Traffickers/Illegral Migration" to a few virtue signalling statements?

 

Because narcotics mainly affect the submerged lowest 10% of society (whom the elites love), while illegal migration hurts mainly the workers and middle classes (whom the elites hate).

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, Eleftheros said:

Why do governments spend so much money and time fighting their "War on Drugs", while relegating the "War on People Traffickers/Illegral Migration" to a few virtue signalling statements?

 

Because narcotics mainly affect the submerged lowest 10% of society (whom the elites love), while illegal migration hurts mainly the workers and middle classes (whom the elites hate).

Support for waging the war on drugs is overwhelming a right-wing phenomenon. So I guess you're claiming that rightists are the elite? And somehow they're showing their support for the "lowest 10%" by putting them in prison? Confused much?

[OneMoreFarang]

11 hours ago, Social Media said:

Witness accounts suggested 400-700 people had packed the 20-30m-long trawler, which capsized and sank about 50 miles from the southern coastal town of Pylos as it was travelling from Libya to Italy.

Did anybody (except small children) who walked on that ship think this is safe and a good way to travel?

Did they all think that they can bring themselves in danger and then others will rescue them?

Did they expect to be rescued? Why?

 

It's like playing Russian roulette and expecting that all will be fine. What a stupid idea!

 

Lots of people all over the world live in conditions which they don't like. And many try to make the best out of their situation. Only few risk everything. Why should the rest of the world reward those people who take idiotic risks?

 

[KhunLA]

Another NATO endorsed regime change, another destroyed country.  UN & NATO, making the world a better, safer place ????

[Mac Mickmanus]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Another NATO endorsed regime change, another destroyed country.  UN & NATO, making the world a better, safer place ????

The people on the boat were not from Libya though , the boat victims have been reported to be from Egypt, Syria, Pakistan, Palestine and Afghanistan .

   The boat just set sail from Libya

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Did anybody (except small children) who walked on that ship think this is safe and a good way to travel?

Did they all think that they can bring themselves in danger and then others will rescue them?

Did they expect to be rescued? Why?

 

It's like playing Russian roulette and expecting that all will be fine. What a stupid idea!

 

Lots of people all over the world live in conditions which they don't like. And many try to make the best out of their situation. Only few risk everything. Why should the rest of the world reward those people who take idiotic risks?

 

My grandparents were like those people. Risked their lives at age 15 to escape pogroms on a slow boat to Cuba to get welcomed with prison (my grandmother raped early in the journey). I find your attitude despicable. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Jingthing

[Eleftheros]

These people get on a dodgy fishing trawler in Libya which they know to be massively overloaded, and when the predictable catastrophe occurs, their relatives immediately start blaming the coastguards in European countries over "inconsistencies in their accounts".

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/17/greece-shipwreck-survivors-anger-fury-coast-guard-questions

 

It's a tragedy, but perhaps the relatives could look closer to home for the responsible parties. If your family members knowingly put their lives into the hands of people traffickers, then the tragic consequences are nobody else's fault.

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The people on the boat were not from Libya though , the boat victims have been reported to be from Egypt, Syria, Pakistan, Palestine and Afghanistan .

   The boat just set sail from Libya

... those 3 stand out as NATO target of late

... just add to the list of regime change failures, sadly, so many millions killed and or displaced from their homes.

 

Ukraine, the current regime change failure

[Mac Mickmanus]

56 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

... those 3 stand out as NATO target of late

... just add to the list of regime change failures, sadly, so many millions killed and or displaced from their homes.

 

Ukraine, the current regime change failure

How are you aware of the plight of the people on the boat ?

Did you read it somewhere or are you just making an assumption about their plight ?

   Also, in what way have NATO targeted Egypt recently ?

Edited June 17, 2023 by Mac Mickmanus

[Tug]

There’s some scuttlebutt that the Greeks took it under tow and it went out of control broached and capsized anyway a horrible fate my condolences to the families of the bereaved and rip to the women and kids just sad ???? 

[Pink Mist]

A link with no explanation and off topic replies have been removed 

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On 6/17/2023 at 6:18 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Did anybody (except small children) who walked on that ship think this is safe and a good way to travel?

Did they all think that they can bring themselves in danger and then others will rescue them?

Did they expect to be rescued? Why?

 

It's like playing Russian roulette and expecting that all will be fine. What a stupid idea!

 

Lots of people all over the world live in conditions which they don't like. And many try to make the best out of their situation. Only few risk everything. Why should the rest of the world reward those people who take idiotic risks?

 

Could you share with us the details of what those conditions are that they don't like?  Let's say they face the prospect of starvation if they stay. If that's the condition they don't like is that an inadequate reason for leaving? 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Could you share with us the details of what those conditions are that they don't like?  Let's say they face the prospect of starvation if they stay. If that's the condition they don't like is that an inadequate reason for leaving? 

They didn't face the prospect of starvation though , so there's no point in taking about what isn't happening , what hasn't happened and what will not happen , 

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

They didn't face the prospect of starvation though , so there's no point in taking about what isn't happening , what hasn't happened and what will not happen , 

You sure about that?

 

Syria now has the sixth highest number of food insecure people in the world, with 2.5 million people who are severely food insecure, and their lives are at risk without food assistance. Child and maternal malnutrition are increasing at a speed never seen before – not even during over a decade of war

https://www.wfp.org/news/hunger-soars-12-year-high-syria-wfp-chief-calls-urgent-action#:~:text=Syria now has the sixth,over a decade of war.

 

Now, the World Food Programme expects that 5.1 million people are likely to be a step away from famine-levels of hunger by the end of March – an increase of 1.1 million people from the previous quarter. "That number is frightening," says Chris Kaye, the Pakistan country director of the WFP.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/03/01/1160297867/food-and-fuel-are-out-of-reach-for-many-pakistanis-because-of-the-economic-crisi

 

In COP27 host Egypt, hunger mounts amid soaring import costs and weather extremes

https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/analysis/2022/10/19/hunger-food-Egypt-wheat-climate-change-Ukraine

 

 And what about murderous governments and violent conflicts in those nations?  

[Mac Mickmanus]

34 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You sure about that?

 

Syria now has the sixth highest number of food insecure people in the world, with 2.5 million people who are severely food insecure, and their lives are at risk without food assistance. Child and maternal malnutrition are increasing at a speed never seen before – not even during over a decade of war

https://www.wfp.org/news/hunger-soars-12-year-high-syria-wfp-chief-calls-urgent-action#:~:text=Syria now has the sixth,over a decade of war.

 

Now, the World Food Programme expects that 5.1 million people are likely to be a step away from famine-levels of hunger by the end of March – an increase of 1.1 million people from the previous quarter. "That number is frightening," says Chris Kaye, the Pakistan country director of the WFP.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/03/01/1160297867/food-and-fuel-are-out-of-reach-for-many-pakistanis-because-of-the-economic-crisi

 

In COP27 host Egypt, hunger mounts amid soaring import costs and weather extremes

https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/analysis/2022/10/19/hunger-food-Egypt-wheat-climate-change-Ukraine

 

 And what about murderous governments and violent conflicts in those nations?  

The boat departed from Libya , which is quite a long way from Syria . Its like five Countries away

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The boat departed from Libya , which is quite a long way from Syria . Its like five Countries away

And where were the passengers from?

[Eleftheros]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And where were the passengers from?

Pakistani media says that 400 of its citizens were on board, of whom at least 298 were lost. That represents slightly over half of the passenger complement, which has been estimated at 750.

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And where were the passengers from?

From Numerous Countries . 

But as they departed from Libya , they were in Libya at the time , you cannot use the reasons for them leaving Libya by boat was to flee hunger in Syria (because they wasn't in Syria )

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

From Numerous Countries . 

But as they departed from Libya , they were in Libya at the time , you cannot use the reasons for them leaving Libya by boat was to flee hunger in Syria (because they wasn't in Syria )

Are you aware of what the situation is like in Syria? Is it even possible to get a boat from Syria to Europe?

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Are you aware of what the situation is like in Syria? Is it even possible to get a boat from Syria to Europe?

That is besides the point .

My point being that they didn't leave Libya to escape being hungry (or starvation, as you call it)

[still kicking]

On 6/17/2023 at 8:49 PM, Jingthing said:

My grandparents were like those people. Risked their lives at age 15 to escape pogroms on a slow boat to Cuba to get welcomed with prison (my grandmother raped early in the journey). I find your attitude despicable. 

Yes he seems to hate every body  

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is besides the point .

My point being that they didn't leave Libya to escape being hungry (or starvation, as you call it)

Do you think that because they chose Libya as a jumping off point that they weren't trying to escape hunger? Are you assuming that they lived in Libya? And if they did...

Under strategic outcome 1, WFP provided life-saving food and nutrition-sensitive assistance to 222,620 food-insecure Libyans and non-Libyan populations, including schoolchildren, through in-kind and cash-based transfers (CBTs). During the first half of the year, WFP faced funding and accessibility constraints resulting in food supply disruption and a reduction of in-kind rations for Libyans and non-Libyan beneficiaries by almost 50 percent between January through April. In response, WFP conducted a prioritization exercise in May to provide full rations of unconditional food assistance to the most vulnerable Libyan population.

https://www.wfp.org/operations/annual-country-report?operation_id=LY01&year=2022#/24751

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Do you think that because they chose Libya as a jumping off point that they weren't trying to escape hunger? Are you assuming that they lived in Libya? And if they did...

Under strategic outcome 1, WFP provided life-saving food and nutrition-sensitive assistance to 222,620 food-insecure Libyans and non-Libyan populations, including schoolchildren, through in-kind and cash-based transfers (CBTs). During the first half of the year, WFP faced funding and accessibility constraints resulting in food supply disruption and a reduction of in-kind rations for Libyans and non-Libyan beneficiaries by almost 50 percent between January through April. In response, WFP conducted a prioritization exercise in May to provide full rations of unconditional food assistance to the most vulnerable Libyan population.

https://www.wfp.org/operations/annual-country-report?operation_id=LY01&year=2022#/24751

How come everyone else in Syria is managing OK and surviving and not starving to death ?

   Were the 400 Pakistanis on board fleeing from hunger in Syria ?

   They also get free food in Syria and Libya from the WFP , that free food isn't available in Italy or Europe 

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How come everyone else in Syria is managing OK and surviving and not starving to death ?

   Were the 400 Pakistanis on board fleeing from hunger in Syria ?

   They also get free food in Syria and Libya from the WFP , that free food isn't available in Italy or Europe 

I linked to an article about hunger in Pakistan.

They may get free food, but even if they do, depending on those agencies for free food is an insecure way to live. 

 

And, as I noticed there is also the issue of violence and conflict in those nations. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I linked to an article about hunger in Pakistan.

They may get free food, but even if they do, depending on those agencies for free food is an insecure way to live. 

 

And, as I noticed there is also the issue of violence and conflict in those nations. 

How will they get food in Italy ?

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How will they get food in Italy ?

In the informal economy. Service workers. Italy is a rapidly aging country and actually needs workers

 

In the news: Italy to grant undocumented migrants work permits
Up to 560,000 migrants live without papers in Italy, but only those working as labourers or carers will be eligible.

https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/news/2020/05/14/Italy-undocumented-migrants-work-permits

 

Regularization of Undocumented Workers

https://www.italianvisa.it/regularization-of-undocumented-workers/

[Mac Mickmanus]

39 minutes ago, placeholder said:

In the informal economy. Service workers. Italy is a rapidly aging country and actually needs workers

 

In the news: Italy to grant undocumented migrants work permits
Up to 560,000 migrants live without papers in Italy, but only those working as labourers or carers will be eligible.

https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/news/2020/05/14/Italy-undocumented-migrants-work-permits

 

Regularization of Undocumented Workers

https://www.italianvisa.it/regularization-of-undocumented-workers/

Oh I see, they are going to Italy to work .

Italy should give then working visas and then they could fly to Italy, rather then going by boat

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Oh I see, they are going to Italy to work .

Italy should give then working visas and then they could fly to Italy, rather then going by boat

I'm guessing you think you're making a point here.

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