Seeking alternative health insurance quotes to Pacific Cross/Prime..

[Scouse123]

I am 61 years old and have used Pacific Prime/ Pacific Cross (Maximus policy) in Thailand,  for the last few years with no claims.

 

Furthermore, I only use it for inpatient and even then, because of my age, I have taken a 40,000 baht deductible to keep the premium reasonable.

 

I would only use it anyway in the event of a serious medical emergency.

 

The premium has jumped significantly this year and I am looking for suggestions for alternatives.

 

They have dropped me an email and said they would like to ' talk about it ' on the phone with me, but I will do that and in the meantime explore options.

[mania]

Can you say what you were paying per year & what the renewal amount is?

 

Seems Thai insurers will always eventually price you out of their book as you age

Maybe try International like April MH Int?

 

I don't have the current quotes but in 2021 for your age it was $2380 or 73,780 baht per year for $500,000 USD/Euro coverage

 

You can try

Wim at AA Insurance

He always gets right back to me when I inquire

Cell Phone 0971890190

AA Insurance Brokers Co., Ltd.

[Scouse123]

12 minutes ago, mania said:

Can you say what you were paying per year & what the renewal amount is?

 

Seems Thai insurers will always eventually price you out of their book as you age

Maybe try International like April MH Int?

 

I don't have the current quotes but in 2021 for your age it was $2380 or 73,780 baht per year for $500,000 USD/Euro coverage

 

You can try

Wim at AA Insurance

He always gets right back to me when I inquire

 

Cell Phone 0971890190

 

AA Insurance Brokers Co., Ltd.

I will check these out today,

 

Their quote was substantially more than this

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Scouse123

[howerde]

I would only insure with a foreign insurer who has an appeals process if that fails you can appeal to the ombudsman, all these protections do not exist in Thailand the insurer is judge and jury, your quotes will increase  massively every year as they try to get rid of you.

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Scouse123 said:

for the last few years with no claims.

 

Furthermore, I only use it for inpatient

No claims, but only use for inpatient. Which one please?

[Scouse123]

5 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

No claims, but only use for inpatient. Which one please?

I don't understand your confusion. I have been with them a few years and never made a claim.

 

My policy is only for inpatient not outpatient.

 

Outpatient, I just pay as I go.

 

My purpose of insurance was just to cover in the event of severe illness or operation required.

[KannikaP]

4 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

I don't understand your confusion. I have been with them a few years and never made a claim.

 

My policy is only for inpatient not outpatient.

 

Outpatient, I just pay as I go.

 

My purpose of insurance was just to cover in the event of severe illness or operation required.

Sorry I was confused when you said 'No Claim' but only 'USE' for inpatient.

You mean it is only set up for Inpatient if it is needed. 

[Scouse123]

1 minute ago, KannikaP said:

Sorry I was confused when you said 'No Claim' but only 'USE' for inpatient.

You mean it is only set up for Inpatient if it is needed. 

Yes, that's what I was meaning.

[brewsterbudgen]

WRLife are very competitive and becoming quite popular with expats here.  Search this Forum and you'll find mixed opinions, but so far, no examples of any major issues.

 

https://www.wrlife.net/

[rwill]

Pacific Cross raises your premium every 5 years.  After 60, 65, etc.  If you don't have any claims you get a 10% reduction on the following renewal.

This is an old chart.  But you can get a general idea of how much it increases as you age.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by rwill

[jcmj]

I use Thai Aetna, which has now changed to Allianz Ayudhya and have the IPD only. I have unfortunately had several claims over the years, but it is still only 72,000 baht per year. 5 million baht coverage per ailment and have been extremely happy with them. I’m a couple years younger but I’d still look into their plans. They can only go up 10% max per year if you have claims, but if you don’t have any claims for the year they will discount it by 10%. I never get the OPD as it is pretty much baht for baht. Plus if you go to the emergency room they cover up to 20,000 baht if not admitted. Also a note that if you get the international plan it is much more expensive. So, if it is just for you while living in Thailand, don’t waste your money on an international plan. You can always get travel insurance if needed. Good luck. 

[Sheryl]

9 hours ago, rwill said:

Pacific Cross raises your premium every 5 years.  After 60, 65, etc.  If you don't have any claims you get a 10% reduction on the following renewal.

This is an old chart.  But you can get a general idea of how much it increases as you age.

 

 

At the higher ages (say 70 on up) this compares unfavorably to the best  internationally issued expat policies...which also provide more cover. 

 

But make no mistake, with any policy premiums will rise with age. So will the likelihood of needing to use the insurance. 

[Mike Teavee]

22 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

and in the meantime explore options.

I find Mister Prakan https://misterprakan.com/th/health/main?lg=en to be a good site for comparing different Health Insurance Polices/providers. 

 

Can purchase the policy through them (I did & found their service very good, E.g. When I needed the Covid Insurance certificate for the Thailand Pass to return to Thailand they emailed it me within minutes of asking) or through another Broker, chances are the prices will be the same. 

[Scouse123]

3 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I find Mister Prakan https://misterprakan.com/th/health/main?lg=en to be a good site for comparing different Health Insurance Polices/providers. 

 

Can purchase the policy through them (I did & found their service very good, E.g. When I needed the Covid Insurance certificate for the Thailand Pass to return to Thailand they emailed it me within minutes of asking) or through another Broker, chances are the prices will be the same. 

Thanks for taking the time to assist.

 

What I have actually done in the last hour is ' bite the bullet ' and renew again through Pacific Cross.

 

The broker from Pacific Prime explained that there are a number or pitfalls in moving.

 

1. Medical costs go up annually for medical procedures, that's just inflation I suppose. So, no matter where I go there will be an increase.

2. I would have to start afresh with a new company with all the form filling, seeking underwriter approval and going through all the paperwork again.

3. I have a few years history with them and all with no claims so she assures I won't find better elsewhere.

4. She says the jump was because I am now in the new band of 61-65 years old, but assures me it wont jump by 20% plus next year or until I am 65.

5.She mentioned downgrading my policy to reduce costs but I feel pretty well covered with 10 million per procedure so I';ll just leave it as it is. As i have said multiple times I use this insurance should a tragedy strike and for inpatient care only. Bumps and bangs in outpatients, I just pay myself.

 

Thanks guys for all your comments and recommendations!

[Bell1234]

Goodluck on them paying a claim if you're ever sick.. Heard some terrible stories about how they don't payout and one was from my friend not so long ago 

[Scouse123]

8 minutes ago, Bell1234 said:

Goodluck on them paying a claim if you're ever sick.. Heard some terrible stories about how they don't payout and one was from my friend not so long ago 

Can you expand as I haven't paid it yet?

[Scouse123]

Has any other board members who insure with Pacific Cross had problems when they have made a claim?

 

I was told they were a popular company and very competitive for expats and had a good name. I have been with them a while but granted, I have never made a claim.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Scouse123 said:

Has any other board members who insure with Pacific Cross had problems when they have made a claim?

 

I was told they were a popular company and very competitive for expats and had a good name. I have been with them a while but granted, I have never made a claim.

Yes, there have been many complaints on this board.  I believe most relate to claims in the first year or two of a policy, but not all. See  https://aseannow.com/topic/1186192-pacific-cross-cover-reviews/   among other threads (can google PC Insurance + site:aseannow.com).

 

 

I have also heard PC excludes some age related conditions like cataract and prostate problems absolutely,  but am not sure if that applies to all or just people who enroll past a certain age.

 

And there have been reports of them adding exclusions years after a policy was issued, based on a claim (i.e. you have condition X one year with a related claim, on your next renewal it appears as an exclusion even though you did not have it at time of initial enrollment). This may be timebound and seems to be related to a general policy exclusion of "chronic" conditions. If growing old here you absolutely do not want a policy that contains any sort of exclusion for "chronic" conditions...since the development of chronic health probolems is pretty universal as people age.

 

And, like most Thai insurers they can and will raise your premiums based on claims history - by as much as 25% in a given year and that is on top of age related and inflationary increases.  For anyone planning to grow old here, this is a major consideration.

 

Thai based insurers do not have as good or as professional a record for claims management compared to international insurers who offer expat policies, and once past about age 60- 65 the international policies cost about the same or even less. International insurers are not allowed to raise premiums based on claims history, and any disputes go through channels in their company of registration, where insurance regulation is usually much tighter than in Thailand.

 

On the other hand it is true that switching insurers can be problematic.  If you then have a claim in the first year or so of the new policy  it will certainly get more scrutiny than it otherwise would (accidents excepted).  That does not mean it won't be paid, but it will be scrutinized especially if it is in the first year of the policy and a condition which by its nature might have been present before hand.  And if you have anything that might be considered a pre-existing condition (anything you take medication for;  anything that required medical treatment in the past say 5-10 years; any abnormal finding on lab test or check-up even if not currently requiring treatment  - e.g. elevated PSA, elevated cholesterol, early cataract) these will likely be excluded or else you may have to pay a "premium load" to include it - you will know for sure once your application is reviewed, a process that is more detailed and lengthy than with a Thai insurer (but unlike the latter, as long as you withheld nothing, leads to a clear policy where you can be sure what is covered and what not).

 

Personally if it were me, I'd make a move to an internationally issued policy now if you are committed to living here for the rest of your life. Now is the time to do so, before you get any older, or develop/learn of  any health conditions.

 

Like any policy, an international expat policy should be gotten via a broker and your current broker is unlikely to be able to help with anything but a Thai issued policy.  I used AA brokers in the past but they have now restructured and there is a separate entity called AA-World handling internationally issued policies and I have so far no experience with them. Contact is [email protected].  As this is a quite recent restructuring the website is nto yet operational https://aa-world.com/

 

There are other brokers foir international expat policies as well, such as

https://www.aoc-insurancebroker.com/

 

Personally I have April International from France (not ot be confused with April Thailand) but above brokers can give you a comparison chart that includes more options as well.  Be sure to look not just at current premiums but how much they will increase with age, and deductible options. Also make sure hospitalization-only policy includes day surgeries, outpatient cancer care and outpatient dialysis.

[Scouse123]

8 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Yes, there have been many complaints on this board.  I believe most relate to claims in the first year or two of a policy, but not all. See  https://aseannow.com/topic/1186192-pacific-cross-cover-reviews/   among other threads (can google PC Insurance + site:aseannow.com).

 

 

I have also heard PC excludes some age related conditions like cataract and prostate problems absolutely,  but am not sure if that applies to all or just people who enroll past a certain age.

 

And there have been reports of them adding exclusions years after a policy was issued, based on a claim (i.e. you have condition X one year with a related claim, on your next renewal it appears as an exclusion even though you did not have it at time of initial enrollment). This may be timebound and seems to be related to a general policy exclusion of "chronic" conditions. If growing old here you absolutely do not want a policy that contains any sort of exclusion for "chronic" conditions...since the development of chronic health probolems is pretty universal as people age.

 

And, like most Thai insurers they can and will raise your premiums based on claims history - by as much as 25% in a given year and that is on top of age related and inflationary increases.  For anyone planning to grow old here, this is a major consideration.

 

Thai based insurers do not have as good or as professional a record for claims management compared to international insurers who offer expat policies, and once past about age 60- 65 the international policies cost about the same or even less. International insurers are not allowed to raise premiums based on claims history, and any disputes go through channels in their company of registration, where insurance regulation is usually much tighter than in Thailand.

 

On the other hand it is true that switching insurers can be problematic.  If you then have a claim in the first year or so of the new policy  it will certainly get more scrutiny than it otherwise would (accidents excepted).  That does not mean it won't be paid, but it will be scrutinized especially if it is in the first year of the policy and a condition which by its nature might have been present before hand.  And if you have anything that might be considered a pre-existing condition (anything you take medication for;  anything that required medical treatment in the past say 5-10 years; any abnormal finding on lab test or check-up even if not currently requiring treatment  - e.g. elevated PSA, elevated cholesterol, early cataract) these will likely be excluded or else you may have to pay a "premium load" to include it - you will know for sure once your application is reviewed, a process that is more detailed and lengthy than with a Thai insurer (but unlike the latter, as long as you withheld nothing, leads to a clear policy where you can be sure what is covered and what not).

 

Personally if it were me, I'd make a move to an internationally issued policy now if you are committed to living here for the rest of your life. Now is the time to do so, before you get any older, or develop/learn of  any health conditions.

 

Like any policy, an international expat policy should be gotten via a broker and your current broker is unlikely to be able to help with anything but a Thai issued policy.  I used AA brokers in the past but they have now restructured and there is a separate entity called AA-World handling internationally issued policies and I have so far no experience with them. Contact is [email protected].  As this is a quite recent restructuring the website is nto yet operational https://aa-world.com/

 

There are other brokers foir international expat policies as well, such as

https://www.aoc-insurancebroker.com/

 

Personally I have April International from France (not ot be confused with April Thailand) but above brokers can give you a comparison chart that includes more options as well.  Be sure to look not just at current premiums but how much they will increase with age, and deductible options. Also make sure hospitalization-only policy includes day surgeries, outpatient cancer care and outpatient dialysis.

Thank you very much indeed.

[JimTripper]

Luma

[Hamus Yaigh]

On 6/29/2023 at 10:45 PM, Sheryl said:

with any policy premiums will rise with age. So will the likelihood of needing to use the insurance. 

This is what makes health insurance seem obscene to most people, especially those coming from places where national health care systems look after the elderly. Most will just take their chances and meet their maker when the time comes versus pay that kind of filthy money every year in the vague hope they get accepted.

[Andycoops]

On 6/29/2023 at 2:18 PM, rwill said:

Pacific Cross raises your premium every 5 years.  After 60, 65, etc.  If you don't have any claims you get a 10% reduction on the following renewal.

This is an old chart.  But you can get a general idea of how much it increases as you age.

 

 

Mine was 15% for this year's renewal.

And if no claims for 5 years with the new policy it is a maximum of 20% upon renewal.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Andycoops

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 6/29/2023 at 11:13 AM, Scouse123 said:

I am 61 years old and have used Pacific Prime/ Pacific Cross (Maximus policy) in Thailand,  for the last few years with no claims.

...

The premium has jumped significantly this year and I am looking for suggestions for alternatives.

 

OP, are you aware that medical insurers typically make premium adjustments as their customers reach various age ranges?

 

In the case of Pacific Cross, they have a standard age band for premiums of ages 61 to 65, meaning you and every other one of their policy holders would get an automatic premium increase once you and they reach age 61.

 

A lot of Thai health insurers adjust premiums based on age AND do annual premium increases year to year as their standard practice. Pacific Cross hasn't done that, and with the exception of this past year, hasn't passed along any year-to-year inflationary increases in quite a few years.

 

Below is a chart from Pacific Cross' brochure showing how their premiums are adjusted as policy holders reach certain age thresholds such as 61. It's something that's readily seen and understood in their policy materials.

 

 

 

PS - also, since you mentioned not having any claims against your medical policy, Pacific Cross also has a pretty generous no claims discount policy.

 

And, you also have the option to increase your policy deductible beyond the 40,000 amount if you want to lower your annual premium.  Just some added options there.

 

[Andycoops]

My new PC policy has gone from 27580pa to 38412pa for the renewal this month and moving into the 66-70 age bracket.

However they have offered a new policy at the same premium which covers some outpatient cover not previously available.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

AFAIK, one of the potential risks of changing insurers once you get older is the new, prospective insurer is almost certainly going to require a medical exam.

 

And, AFAIK, would be pretty likely to exclude from your prospective policy anything notable that might surface in the medical exam...

 

So a person could go from having newer issues remain covered by their existing policy to potentially a situation where those same issues become exclusions from a newly issued, underwritten policy.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

Has any other board members who insure with Pacific Cross had problems when they have made a claim?

 

I was told they were a popular company and very competitive for expats and had a good name. I have been with them a while but granted, I have never made a claim.

 

I've been with Pacific Cross for many years... Never had any inpatient claims.  But some years back, I did have some day surgery and outpatients claims back when I had a zero deductible policy, and they paid promptly and without any hassle....

 

And with a lot of providers, their insurance (at least for outpatient in Thailand) will be accepted as payment at the time services are rendered... as opposed to you having to pay up front, and then seek reimbursement later.

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Scouse123]

29 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

OP, are you aware that medical insurers typically make premium adjustments as their customers reach various age ranges?

 

In the case of Pacific Cross, they have a standard age band for premiums of ages 61 to 65, meaning you and every other one of their policy holders would get an automatic premium increase once you and they reach age 61.

 

A lot of Thai health insurers adjust premiums based on age AND do annual premium increases year to year as their standard practice. Pacific Cross hasn't done that, and with the exception of this past year, hasn't passed along any year-to-year inflationary increases in quite a few years.

 

Below is a chart from Pacific Cross' brochure showing how their premiums are adjusted as policy holders reach certain age thresholds such as 61. It's something that's readily seen and understood in their policy materials.

 

 

 

PS - also, since you mentioned not having any claims against your medical policy, Pacific Cross also has a pretty generous no claims discount policy.

 

And, you also have the option to increase your policy deductible beyond the 40,000 amount if you want to lower your annual premium.  Just some added options there.

 

Yes, thanks a lot, I am aware of the above following an email from Pacific Prime explaining all this.

 

My main worry was people saying they had difficulties with Pacific Cross when they made a claim.

[Scouse123]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I've been with Pacific Cross for many years... Never had any inpatient claims.  But some years back, I did have some day surgery and outpatients claims back when I had a zero deductible policy, and they paid promptly and without any hassle....

 

And with a lot of providers, their insurance (at least for outpatient in Thailand) will be accepted as payment at the time services are rendered... as opposed to you having to pay up front, and then seek reimbursement later.

 

Thank you, this was the kind of information I was seeking.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

FWIW, I do have one issue with the Pacific Cross Maxima policy... though I'm not sure it would be any different or better with any other Thai insurers....

 

AFAIK, their policy's maximum daily inpatient limit for hospital room and board has remained unchanged at max 8,000 baht per day for all the years I've had their policy.

 

When I first took out the policy many years back, that probably would have covered most of my likely private hospital choices. But with the years of inflation and rising medical costs, these days, a lot of private hospitals in BKK have daily room rates that are higher, and sometimes much higher, than that....

 

Meaning that you can't necessarily rely on their inpatient daily hospital room and board benefit to cover ALL of what your daily inpatient room expenses might be... obviously, depending on what hospital you use and what level of room you select.

 

I would have hoped...though I don't know if this is or isn't' done with other Thai insurers...that they would make some kind of inflationary adjustment for their benefit levels.... just as they do with their premium levels. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[nglodnig]

Are Pacfific Prime the same company as Pacific Cross? I think not....

Edited July 1, 2023 by nglodnig