Antarctic sea ice at record low for end of June, warns Met Office

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/24/2023 at 7:58 PM, Hummin said:

Climate change, who denies that? 

Not I, for sure. Climate is always changing.

What I disagree with is that humans caused it or that it can be changed back by driving EVs, using solar power or paying more taxes.

[placeholder]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not I, for sure. Climate is always changing.

What I disagree with is that humans caused it or that it can be changed back by driving EVs, using solar power or paying more taxes.

One of these days you're going to actually provide evidence to back this up. Given the reality of the situation, most likely I will be here to show why that evidence is invalid.

[Hummin]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not I, for sure. Climate is always changing.

What I disagree with is that humans caused it or that it can be changed back by driving EVs, using solar power or paying more taxes.

Why do you deny humans is one of many other factors? We are part of changing naturally cycles, which impacts local climates, which again changing larger systems, feeding on local environment. 

 

Not so difficult to imagine when we directly changing larger areas cycles. 

 

Interesting read, once was Sahara green, with the biggest lake ever measured, and with rich diversed life. 

 

Humans and other animals have changed and impacted local environment as long it have been life on this planet! 

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-really-turned-sahara-desert-green-oasis-wasteland-180962668/

Edited August 18, 2023 by Hummin

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Awhy do you deny humans is one of many other factors? We are part of changing naturally cycles, which impacts local climates, which again changing larger systems, feeding on local environment. 

 

Not so difficult to imagine when we directly changing larger areas cycles. 

 

Interesting read, once was Sahara green, with the biggest lake ever measured, and rich diversed life. 

 

Humans and other animals have changed and impacted local environment as long it have been life on this planet! 

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-really-turned-sahara-desert-green-oasis-wasteland-180962668/

Human Versus Natural Causes

Scientists have pieced together a record of the earth’s climate by analyzing a number of indirect measures of climate, such as ice cores, tree rings, glacier lengths, pollen remains, and ocean sediments, and by studying changes in the earth’s orbit around the sun.2 This record shows that the climate varies naturally over a wide range of time scales, but this variability does not explain the observed warming since the 1950s. Rather, it is extremely likely (> 95%) that human activities have been the dominant cause of that warming.

https://www.epa.gov/climatechange-science/causes-climate-change#:~:text=Human Versus Natural Causes&text=Rather%2C it is extremely likely,dominant cause of that warming.&text=Human activities have contributed substantially,Absorption of the Sun's Energy

[Hummin]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Human Versus Natural Causes

Scientists have pieced together a record of the earth’s climate by analyzing a number of indirect measures of climate, such as ice cores, tree rings, glacier lengths, pollen remains, and ocean sediments, and by studying changes in the earth’s orbit around the sun.2 This record shows that the climate varies naturally over a wide range of time scales, but this variability does not explain the observed warming since the 1950s. Rather, it is extremely likely (> 95%) that human activities have been the dominant cause of that warming.

https://www.epa.gov/climatechange-science/causes-climate-change#:~:text=Human Versus Natural Causes&text=Rather%2C it is extremely likely,dominant cause of that warming.&text=Human activities have contributed substantially,Absorption of the Sun's Energy

I also believe humans have changed invirment on this planet before as well, and Sahara can be one of the bigger changes we ever did back then. But, can we call urban cities and villages a desert to ? How much do a larger city impact local enviroment and climate? 

 

Human-induced climate change dates back much further than we think: study

Evidence crowdsourced from archeologists worldwide suggests land use for hunting and farming has contributed to global warming for at least 5,000 years.

 

https://www.ualberta.ca/folio/2019/11/human-induced-climate-change-dates-back-much-further-than-we-think-study.html

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I also believe humans have changed invirment on this planet before as well, and Sahara can be one of the bigger changes we ever did back then. But, can we call urban cities and villages a desert to ? How much do a larger city impact local enviroment and climate? 

 

Human-induced climate change dates back much further than we think: study

Evidence crowdsourced from archeologists worldwide suggests land use for hunting and farming has contributed to global warming for at least 5,000 years.

 

https://www.ualberta.ca/folio/2019/11/human-induced-climate-change-dates-back-much-further-than-we-think-study.html

Whatever the human contribution was back then, it doesn't compare in rate of change to what is happening now.

[Hummin]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Whatever the human contribution was back then, it doesn't compare in rate of change to what is happening now.

We are maybe 10 times more people, and activity compared to back then when they built the pyramids? Also hard to measure. 

 

Still interesting, and afterall, it was the end of the ice age, just mentioning if you forgot it.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Hummin

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

We are maybe 10 times more people, and activity compared to back then when they built the pyramids? Also hard to measure. 

 

Still interesting, and afterall, it was the end of the ice age, just mentioning if you forgot it.

It;s certainlly an interesting idea. If it does turn out to be the case, I suspect that back then it was a very fragile environment that didn't need much of a push. But that's only an uninformed guess.

[ozimoron]

On 7/24/2023 at 9:09 AM, BritManToo said:

I'd buy a beach house if they were cheaper.

Risk of flooding doesn't seem to worry Bill Gates or Barak Obama, and they probably have better information than us.

That's because their beach houses are still well above sea level, several generations above.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

That's because their beach houses are still well above sea level, several generations above.

Also, they are extremely wealthy. Even if their houses were subject to a major near term threat. would that materially affect them?

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Hummin said:

Why do you deny humans is one of many other factors? We are part of changing naturally cycles, which impacts local climates, which again changing larger systems, feeding on local environment. 

 

Not so difficult to imagine when we directly changing larger areas cycles. 

 

Interesting read, once was Sahara green, with the biggest lake ever measured, and with rich diversed life. 

 

Humans and other animals have changed and impacted local environment as long it have been life on this planet! 

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-really-turned-sahara-desert-green-oasis-wasteland-180962668/

Used to be trees growing on Antarctic continent too. Humans didn't create the ice age.

IMO we are too insignificant to change it, no matter how many times they try to say we did.

I think Gaia is going to wipe us humans out, like the dinosaurs, for polluting the planet.

[kwilco]

On 8/18/2023 at 12:39 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Not I, for sure. Climate is always changing.

What I disagree with is that humans caused it or that it can be changed back by driving EVs, using solar power or paying more taxes.

I find it baffling that any individual thinks they know better than the overwhelming scientific evidence. Is it just to much to handle?

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, kwilco said:

I find it baffling that any individual thinks they know better than the overwhelming scientific evidence. Is it just to much to handle?

Keep on beating that tired old drum.

When I hear some actual affordable, acceptable and practical solutions I might give a <deleted>, but so far zero, nada, nothing, just the usual "tax tax tax" idiocy.

 

I've given my solutions more than once on this forum, but I must have missed yours, or are you carrying on flying, driving, eating food transported by diesel powered vehicles, using electricity generated by fossil fuel etc etc etc and just repeating "overwhelming scientific evidence" as if it's some sort of talisman against bad weather?

[BritManToo]

17 hours ago, kwilco said:

I find it baffling that any individual thinks they know better than the overwhelming scientific evidence. Is it just to much to handle?

No, it's irrelevant to my life.

There's nothing I can do about it, even if I believed ........

1. It was happening

2. It was undesirable

3. It could be changed

 

So why worry?

[kwilco]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

No, it's irrelevant to my life.

There's nothing I can do about it, even if I believed ........

1. It was happening

2. It was undesirable

3. It could be changed

 

So why worry?

Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph.

Haile Selassie

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, kwilco said:

Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph.

Haile Selassie

Difference is that he was talking about people, and something can be done about them.

Even if I believed that climate change was caused primarily by humans, I don't believe for a millisecond that we can do anything to change it to something else with what we are doing, which is sod all other than taxes which will IMO make zero difference.

 

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Difference is that he was talking about people, and something can be done about them.

Even if I believed that climate change was caused primarily by humans, I don't believe for a millisecond that we can do anything to change it to something else with what we are doing, which is sod all other than taxes which will IMO make zero difference.

 

I guess there will always be people who are a total waste of space.

[placeholder]

On 8/26/2023 at 8:17 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Difference is that he was talking about people, and something can be done about them.

Even if I believed that climate change was caused primarily by humans, I don't believe for a millisecond that we can do anything to change it to something else with what we are doing, which is sod all other than taxes which will IMO make zero difference.

 

Thank for not offering any evidence of why lessening the production of greenhouse gasses will have no effect on climate change.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, placeholder said:

Thank for not offering any evidence of why lessening the production of greenhouse gasses will have no effect on climate change.

It's not a question of if lessening the production of greenhouse gasses will have an effect on climate change, because anyone that look sat the world as it is and not as some sort of utopia will know that it's not going to happen, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/26/2023 at 6:44 PM, kwilco said:

I guess there will always be people who are a total waste of space.

So, what are YOU doing to change the world?

Just insulting other people on here by your lack of suggestions, apparently.

 

I contributed by not having any children, which is the best thing anyone that actually believes in the propaganda can do to save the planet, LOL.

 

 

[kwilco]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So, what are YOU doing to change the world?

Just insulting other people on here by your lack of suggestions, apparently.

 

I contributed by not having any children, which is the best thing anyone that actually believes in the propaganda can do to save the planet, LOL.

 

 

So now you have decided MMCC is actually real?

It looks like I'm making progress.

[Bkk Brian]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So, what are YOU doing to change the world?

Just insulting other people on here by your lack of suggestions, apparently.

 

I contributed by not having any children, which is the best thing anyone that actually believes in the propaganda can do to save the planet, LOL.

 

 

How many years ago did you decide not to have children to do your bit for climate change?

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not a question of if lessening the production of greenhouse gasses will have an effect on climate change, because anyone that look sat the world as it is and not as some sort of utopia will know that it's not going to happen, IMO.

Thanks for the lack of evidence.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/28/2023 at 6:15 PM, kwilco said:

So now you have decided MMCC is actually real?

It looks like I'm making progress.

I don't care whatever caused the rise in global temperature of a degree or so. Far as I'm concerned it's a fact that climate changes all the time, and there is sod all we can do about it other than learn to live with it.

Annoys me that governments are using it to raise taxes though.

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't care whatever caused the rise in global temperature of a degree or so. Far as I'm concerned it's a fact that climate changes all the time, and there is sod all we can do about it other than learn to live with it.

Annoys me that governments are using it to raise taxes though.

There's plenty we can do about it. Like stopping using fossil fuels as fast as possible. The anti-climate change cult never had a problem with spending tax money to subsidize fossil fuels. While we could have moved to reduce emissions years ago, the cult needs to understand that fighting climate change won't be free. The most expensive part will be the climate change mitigation, like paying for floods and fires.

[Bkk Brian]

44 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't care whatever caused the rise in global temperature of a degree or so. Far as I'm concerned it's a fact that climate changes all the time, and there is sod all we can do about it other than learn to live with it.

Annoys me that governments are using it to raise taxes though.

and there is sod all we can do about it other than learn to live with it.

 

B.S. Its already been proven there's a lot we can do about it. Why is the ozone layer hole not increasing anymore?

 

In a report published every four years on the progress of the Montreal Protocol, the panel confirmed the phase-out of nearly 99 per cent of banned ozone-depleting substances.

“The impact the Montreal Protocol has had on climate change mitigation cannot be overstressed,” said Meg Seki, Executive Secretary of the UN Environment Programme’s (UNEP) Ozone Secretariat. 

https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/01/1132277

Edited August 31, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

t's a fact that climate changes all the time

THis cliche is rolled out over and over by climate deniers but all it shows is how little you understand bout the nature of man-made climate change - 

[kwilco]

To get an idea of MMCC as opposed to historical "natural" variations this graphic give a good overview of the RATE of exchange. 

You need to know what n "anomaly" is and the basic chemistry behind the atmospheric problems  anything after that is just pure cognitive dissonance ...

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/31/2023 at 10:19 PM, kwilco said:

THis cliche is rolled out over and over by climate deniers but all it shows is how little you understand bout the nature of man-made climate change - 

What I know is that a few windmills and EVs are not going to make any difference.

I don't need a science degree to know that a lot of the stuff spouted is nothing to do with climate, and everything to do with taxes and money.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/31/2023 at 10:24 PM, kwilco said:

To get an idea of MMCC as opposed to historical "natural" variations this graphic give a good overview of the RATE of exchange. 

You need to know what n "anomaly" is and the basic chemistry behind the atmospheric problems  anything after that is just pure cognitive dissonance ...

 

 

IMO meaningless. Only thing that counts is actions other than imposing as many taxes as possible. Other than that, I see nothing being done or promoted that is affordable, acceptable and effective.

 

If governments actually believed it, would they allow Brazil to destroy the Amazonian rain forest?