Life certificates and Thai post

[soalbundy]

We are all familiar with the inadequacies of the Thai postal service but we rarely speak about the lack of efficiency in our homeland. My BMW company pension and my British pension were both canceled in May because I hadn't received the life certificate forms sent to me through the Thai post. I sent emails to both organizations and received new forms from them per email, so far so good. I filled out the forms and sent them off with EMS confident that I would receive double payment in June, imagine my surprise when no money came in June either. Again I sent off emails asking why. The answers given were that they hadn't received the life certificate. I wrote several more emails explaining the situation in detail and received no reply. Now into July I used the EMS tracking service and found that both organizations had received the certificates on the 20th of June, leaving ample time I thought for payments to be made end of June.

 

I decided to telephone them. I started with BMW Munich, the lady was polite and sympathetic but explained, after typing on her keyboard, that my life certificate wasn't in the system, my explanations regarding the EMS tracking service brought forward only,  "Hmmm, yes, I don't know, perhaps it's delayed in another department, ring up in a couple of days time and if I haven't got it then do another one and email it to me and I will authorize payment." This caused me to lose my cool telling her she had had 16 days already to process my certificate, so much for German efficiency, like water off a ducks back.

 

My telephone conversation with DWP had more success, 15 minutes of 'please hold the line or perhaps you would like to call later,' a friendly female voice greeted me, after the lady had typed on her keyboard, she told me that yes they had received it (success at last) but it was in another department being processed. "How long does this take", I fumed," You've had it for over two weeks", "Hmmm (the same Hmmm in Germany) yes well these things take time, it will all be finished in a few days time"  "So DWP needs 3 weeks to process a simple document"  "Apparently" she said laughing.

 

Full marks though for EMS, they had delivered to both Germany and the UK from Isaan within 4 days. 

[blackshadow]

6 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

We are all familiar with the inadequacies of the Thai postal service but we rarely speak about the lack of efficiency in our homeland. My BMW company pension and my British pension were both canceled in May because I hadn't received the life certificate forms sent to me through the Thai post. I sent emails to both organizations and received new forms from them per email, so far so good. I filled out the forms and sent them off with EMS confident that I would receive double payment in June, imagine my surprise when no money came in June either. Again I sent off emails asking why. The answers given were that they hadn't received the life certificate. I wrote several more emails explaining the situation in detail and received no reply. Now into July I used the EMS tracking service and found that both organizations had received the certificates on the 20th of June, leaving ample time I thought for payments to be made end of June.

 

I decided to telephone them. I started with BMW Munich, the lady was polite and sympathetic but explained, after typing on her keyboard, that my life certificate wasn't in the system, my explanations regarding the EMS tracking service brought forward only,  "Hmmm, yes, I don't know, perhaps it's delayed in another department, ring up in a couple of days time and if I haven't got it then do another one and email it to me and I will authorize payment." This caused me to lose my cool telling her she had had 16 days already to process my certificate, so much for German efficiency, like water off a ducks back.

 

My telephone conversation with DWP had more success, 15 minutes of 'please hold the line or perhaps you would like to call later,' a friendly female voice greeted me, after the lady had typed on her keyboard, she told me that yes they had received it (success at last) but it was in another department being processed. "How long does this take", I fumed," You've had it for over two weeks", "Hmmm (the same Hmmm in Germany) yes well these things take time, it will all be finished in a few days time"  "So DWP needs 3 weeks to process a simple document"  "Apparently" she said laughing.

 

Full marks though for EMS, they had delivered to both Germany and the UK from Isaan within 4 days. 

i used DHL take about a week to get to Uk

[Robin]

Can't speak for your BMW pension, but similar experience with UK DWP is that once they believe you are alive, they will pay all back pension without and further argument.  If you are still alive you will not be stopped any pension due to your not keeping DWP up to date.

[Crossy]

My private pension (I'm not getting my UK state pension yet) will send life certificates by post if you want them.

 

But, they encourage you to use their app "MyPensionID".

 

Once it's set up (not difficult) and they want to prove you're still breathing they send you an email and the app puts up a notification. Open the app take a selfie with the app during which you blink. After a short while it tells you OK or try again. All done.

 

 

 

[soalbundy]

37 minutes ago, Robin said:

Can't speak for your BMW pension, but similar experience with UK DWP is that once they believe you are alive, they will pay all back pension without and further argument.  If you are still alive you will not be stopped any pension due to your not keeping DWP up to date.

Yes I understand that, BMW will also pay the missed payments. The worst thing about it all is being so powerless, having to rely on office staff in a different far away country who are just doing their day job, there are no email exchanges with the same person, each time someone new answers so there is no time to build a rapport with anyone, you're just a number causing problems. Yesterday I sent a life certificate to the German state pension provider, my biggest source of income, thankfully they have never given me problems but there is always a first time. 3 life certificates a year is a source of problems, one is bound to go tits up.

[BritManToo]

if you didn't tell them you were living outside the UK, you wouldn't need to deal with Life Certificates.

Not sure why they can't do it all via email though.

[soalbundy]

Just now, BritManToo said:

if you didn't tell them you were living outside the UK, you wouldn't need to deal with Life Certificates.

Not sure why they can't do it all via email though.

Lying has its own dangers. The German state pension people have worked out a scheme with a QR code, sounds reasonable at first but then you need a transaction code number (how to get?) and you have to make a video of your face etc. Reading through all the steps it seems easier just to fill in the form. Everyone seems scared of scams, security is number one these days. My German bank changed their bank card system, so after 3 failed attempts I get the new card but my tan generator wouldn't accept it, I had to buy a new QR tan generator but the producer wont supply outside Germany so I had to get a German friend to buy me one and send it to me. I can't use the card in an ATM, you have to register for permission with the bank, no permanent pin number, you have to use the tan generator each time which will give you a new pin number for each use, it's bollucks.

[Smokey and the Bandit]

42 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

if you didn't tell them you were living outside the UK, you wouldn't need to deal with Life Certificates.

Not sure why they can't do it all via email though.

Correct, but obviously you would need a UK address. Your question as to why the don't use email is a very good one.

I have 3 private pensions and they send an email every 2 years or so that I need to get signed and verified by a notary etc, then I can scan and email the form back, which of course obviates the use of snail mail/post. Rhetorical question but why do the DWP insist on using the 'post' method?

[KhunBENQ]

59 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The German state pension people have worked out a scheme with a QR code, sounds reasonable at first but then you need a transaction code number (how to get?) and you have to make a video of your face etc. Reading through all the steps it seems easier just to fill in the form.

Did it last year with a non German passport and it took three attempts but worked in the end. Another mate yesterday did it with German passport on first attempt.

Of course you need a mobile and "PostIdent" app installed. QR code will lead to the transaction.

As I have another business to do this year I will visit German consulate in Pattaya.

[soalbundy]

24 minutes ago, Smokey and the Bandit said:

Correct, but obviously you would need a UK address. Your question as to why the don't use email is a very good one.

I have 3 private pensions and they send an email every 2 years or so that I need to get signed and verified by a notary etc, then I can scan and email the form back, which of course obviates the use of snail mail/post. Rhetorical question but why do the DWP insist on using the 'post' method?

That's the same question as why do pubs have parking lots. They all require snail post in case you alter something with digital tools but I have found when push comes to shove they will accept a scan sent per email as long as the original is on its way per post, in my case with BMW the woman said she would authorize payment with a scan as long as either they find what I had already sent or I send the second original per post. Sounds like an employment scheme to me.

[KhunBENQ]

45 minutes ago, Smokey and the Bandit said:

Your question as to why the don't use email is a very good one.

German state pension rules out any email/FAX stuff.

My company pension handled through a law firm is easy on that. Email attachment is OK.

It was voided during Covid but now back to full throttle.

A proper video ID system is the way to go.

Some banks/fintechs already do it like that.

Edited July 8, 2023 by KhunBENQ

[soalbundy]

Just now, KhunBENQ said:

Did it last year with a non German passport and it took three attempts but worked in the end. Another mate yesterday did it with German passport on first attempt.

Of course you need a mobile and "PostIdent" app installed. QR code will lead to the transaction.

As I have another business to do this year I will visit German consulate in Pattaya.

Where did you get the transaction number from? what I noticed in their list of document requirements for Thailand only a scan from a driving license was allowed, what driving license Thai or Deutsch, my German license is 20 years older than I look now and I have a beard since 2 years, also is this only for the Anmeldung to use the system and afterwards only the QR code is needed?

[KhunBENQ]

5 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Where did you get the transaction number from?

All I remember is that I scanned the QR code on the letter for the Digital Proof of Life with the POSTIDENT app on the smartphone.

POSTIDENT app has a little QR code symbol right to the transaction number field. Click on that.

It's well described in the letter?

Before a snail mail letter has reached the German office you can still try the online ident.

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by KhunBENQ

[soalbundy]

19 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

All I remember is that I scanned the QR code on the letter for the Digital Proof of Life with the POSTIDENT app on the smartphone.

POSTIDENT app has a little QR code symbol right to the transaction number field. Click on that.

It's well described in the letter?

Before a snail mail letter has reached the German office you can still try the online ident.

 

Yes I did that then a page came up asking me to fill in a box with the 12 numbered transaction number, which I don't have. Two Germans that I know in the next village had the same problem. Apparently one can get this number from the post office (German?) maybe a Thai post office because on the back of the QR page it is translated in Thai.

[Red Forever]

On 7/8/2023 at 12:11 PM, soalbundy said:

Lying has its own dangers. The German state pension people have worked out a scheme with a QR code, sounds reasonable at first but then you need a transaction code number (how to get?) and you have to make a video of your face etc. Reading through all the steps it seems easier just to fill in the form. Everyone seems scared of scams, security is number one these days. My German bank changed their bank card system, so after 3 failed attempts I get the new card but my tan generator wouldn't accept it, I had to buy a new QR tan generator but the producer wont supply outside Germany so I had to get a German friend to buy me one and send it to me. I can't use the card in an ATM, you have to register for permission with the bank, no permanent pin number, you have to use the tan generator each time which will give you a new pin number for each use, it's bollucks.

Where has any poster here been lying?

[soalbundy]

9 minutes ago, Red Forever said:

Where has any poster here been lying?

I was answering a post from Britmantoo who wrote that I wouldn't need these life certificates if I had a false address in the UK. These days where AI is available nothing can be hidden for long. I wasn't being judgmental, just an observation.

[Tazmo]

Quite interesting and helpful to read what others have experienced.

Also comforting to know that I am not the only one in this situation.

 I also received no pension since April. Not received any LC by post from DWP. Contacted them by mail and was sent an electronic LC form which I completed and posted via EMS and tracked it that it was delivered within 7 days. But still nothing up to now! Emailed them again, no response!

Going to the UK on Thursday, will follow up there.  What a terrible system, feels like you’re begging!

[Almer]

On 7/8/2023 at 11:47 AM, BritManToo said:

if you didn't tell them you were living outside the UK, you wouldn't need to deal with Life Certificates.

Not sure why they can't do it all via email though.

And if you don't tell them you will keep looking over your shoulder

[Almer]

Have had similar problems over the years, the UK DWP  is archaic needing things done by letter  post. 

The recent LC was a nightmare to get witnessed, in the end the I went to the amphur and was charged 1000baht and didn't even show any ID he didn't understand the form only the 1000baht, the Tourist police wanted house book etc etc etc as difficult as they could make it and that would have been 500baht.

DWP make it as difficult as possible because they don't like sending the money out of the country the fact we no longer are a drain on the UK  resources stands for nothing

[jesimps]

2 hours ago, Almer said:

Have had similar problems over the years, the UK DWP  is archaic needing things done by letter  post. 

The recent LC was a nightmare to get witnessed, in the end the I went to the amphur and was charged 1000baht and didn't even show any ID he didn't understand the form only the 1000baht, the Tourist police wanted house book etc etc etc as difficult as they could make it and that would have been 500baht.

DWP make it as difficult as possible because they don't like sending the money out of the country the fact we no longer are a drain on the UK  resources stands for nothing

I think all will agree that it's diabolical the way the UK treats it's expat pensioners. Many of us ex servicemen and are still paying UK tax, which they of course don't demand a signed and witnessed life certificate for because the festering thieves take it from source.

[cnx355]

For this type of documents I always use EMS or  DHL. 

 

And DHL need a street address not a PO Box.

 

DHL is always quicker for me for shipping document in Canada.

 

 

[Almer]

8 minutes ago, jesimps said:

I think all will agree that it's diabolical the way the UK treats it's expat pensioners. Many of us ex servicemen and are still paying UK tax, which they of course don't demand a signed and witnessed life certificate for because the festering thieves take it from source.

Festering lovely analogy of thieving scum bags

[chilly07]

I think DWP doesn't bother  to send Life Certificates to expats  anymore- they just stop the payments and wait for us to squawk!

[proton]

On 7/8/2023 at 11:47 AM, BritManToo said:

if you didn't tell them you were living outside the UK, you wouldn't need to deal with Life Certificates.

Not sure why they can't do it all via email though.

why do they need them anyway? I thought when you die the embassy is informed who could then put your death in the system stopping payments, as happens when a death is registered in UK. 

[torrow]

On 7/8/2023 at 11:47 AM, BritManToo said:

if you didn't tell them you were living outside the UK, you wouldn't need to deal with Life Certificates.

Not sure why they can't do it all via email though.

If you don’t tell them you are living outside the UK, you will be fraudulently receiving pension increases. This is 2023. The Government can join up all the dots now. When they catch you, your pension will be set at the rate it was when you left the UK. You will be required to repay all the increases and other benefits received.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, torrow said:

If you don’t tell them you are living outside the UK, you will be fraudulently receiving pension increases. This is 2023. The Government can join up all the dots now. When they catch you, your pension will be set at the rate it was when you left the UK. You will be required to repay all the increases and other benefits received.

You're completely right ....... fear your government!

Will they make me fill out life certificates for all those missing years or will I get away with that?

Edited July 10, 2023 by BritManToo

[proton]

19 minutes ago, torrow said:

If you don’t tell them you are living outside the UK, you will be fraudulently receiving pension increases. This is 2023. The Government can join up all the dots now. When they catch you, your pension will be set at the rate it was when you left the UK. You will be required to repay all the increases and other benefits received.

Meanwhile, thousands of illegal boat people are being put up in hotels costing 6 million a day, and you expect people to be honest about telling the people responsible where they are living so they can freeze their already paltry pension rate after paying into it for 40 years ????

[sandyf]

On 7/8/2023 at 11:47 AM, BritManToo said:

if you didn't tell them you were living outside the UK, you wouldn't need to deal with Life Certificates.

Not sure why they can't do it all via email though.

Legal & General sent one to my UK address some years ago, I wasn't there so it was sent back to them and they stopped the pension. I phoned them up and asked if they would be sending another,  "no need, we don't take calls from the grave".

Got pension the following day. 

[scorecard]

On 7/8/2023 at 9:10 AM, blackshadow said:

i used DHL take about a week to get to Uk

Several time I've used EMS to send several envelopes of documents and one case of 2 cardboard tubes of X rays from Chiang Mai to Hobart in Autralia.

 

Most times I discovered the envelopes were waiting  for pick up at Hobart GPO and the gov't agency advised, within 48 hrs of despatched from CM.

 

Others cases within 72 hrs.

 

No complaints from me re Thai Post. 

[Expattaff1308]

2 hours ago, chilly07 said:

I think DWP doesn't bother  to send Life Certificates to expats  anymore- they just stop the payments and wait for us to squawk!

Yes they still send them.