Thailand: Pita’s loss is Thaksin’s gain

[Dickie Dee]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

 

Move Forward leader loses first vote to become prime minister, opening the way for Peua Thai to take the helm on its own terms

 

BANGKOK – In a largely preordained vote against the popular will, Move Forward Party (MFP) leader Pita Limjaroenrat failed to win enough parliamentary votes to become Thailand’s next and arguably first progressive prime minister.

 

The military-appointed, 249-member Senate and lower house parliamentarians aligned with the outgoing conservative coalition led by coup-maker General Prayut Chan-ocha either abstained or voted down Pita’s bid, which needed to secure at least 375 of 749 votes.

 

The tally saw 324 votes in favor of Pita, 182 against and 199 abstentions. A second vote is scheduled for July 19, at which the second-ranked Peua Thai could, and some insiders say, will likely put forward its top candidate, property tycoon Srettha Thavisin. A third and final vote could take place the following day.

 

The political jockeying is expected to intensify in the days ahead as Pita will need to explain to coalition partners why he believes he can win a second vote after losing today. Many believe the Senate and other conservative MPs would be more willing to vote for the non-confrontational Srettha, who Peua Thai insiders have cast as their “compromise” candidate.

 

By SHAWN W. CRISPIN

 

Full story: https://asiatimes.com/2023/07/thailand-pitas-loss-is-thaksins-gain/

 

-- © Copyright ASIA TIMES 2023-07-14

 

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This is worse than western elections. But maybe more predictable…

[Colki]

fdimike... name other countries where the opposition can oppose  and vote down the choice of a PM candidate when various parties combine to form a ruling coalition.

[Shocked farang]

We falang love Pita!! Pita is our PM! 

 

[BusyB]

4 hours ago, Thailand said:

Conditions looking to have the possibility of heading to another one of those coup thingies?

 

Who was the general who said there will no coup on his watch?

 

Not Prayuth, the most recent one.

555 ... and he's just left ....

[h90]

5 hours ago, Joseph98765 said:

The word 'democracy' is derived from the Greek word “Demokratia” which is made up of two words: “Demos” meaning people and “Kratia” meaning rule.

so finally the "people" don't have any decision to choose their own government... disgusting what happened yesterday!!!

I am pretty sure a coalition that is acceptable will be formed

[daejung]

7 hours ago, h90 said:

they all expire soon, but can't remember when...1 or 2 years

Will it change something ?They will be again appointed by the army, won't they  ?

[h90]

5 minutes ago, Shocked farang said:

We falang love Pita!! Pita is our PM! 

 

no PM is OUR PM....and while we can discuss we should not mix into politics....

[h90]

Just now, daejung said:

Will it change something ?They will be again appointed by the army, won't they  ?

I don't know the appointment process

[mrfill]

54 minutes ago, fdimike said:

Please name 1 country who elects their PM/Pres directly.  I personally know of none so what's the big uproar about?

Could it be that despite getting 324 votes out of 550 cast (58.9%), they lost?

 

The rules meant that abstentions counted for the against side.

[anchadian]

(1/2) BREAKING: Parliament President Wan on Fri accepts a petition by MFP MPs seeking to amend Article 272 of the junta-sponsored charter which if successful would remove the power of the junta-appointed senators to jointly vote with elected MPs for PM.

 

(2/2) In order to succeed, they will need at least 376 votes from the parliament, approval from one third of the junta-appointed senators, or 84 of them, and at least 20 percent of the votes from opposition parties.

 

https://twitter.com/KhaosodEnglish/status/167

9778310631604224

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by anchadian

[h90]

12 minutes ago, mrfill said:

Could it be that despite getting 324 votes out of 550 cast (58.9%), they lost?

 

The rules meant that abstentions counted for the against side.

We had several countries where the president said he would not make a specific person to the prime minister even if his party wins.

Often that is when a right wing party is about to win in Europe or a party that says that they want to make a referendum about leaving the European Union.

[anchadian]

Junta-appointed senator Somchai Sawaengkarn posted on Fri senators are being bullied online by "packs of hyenas" (after they overwhelming voted against PM candidate Pita). Somchai said he'll sue them for defamation. "#prisonareforevilpeople" he adds. #Thailand #ธุรกิจสว

 

https://twitter.com/PravitR/status/1679788075139088386

 

Porntip Rojanasunan defends defying the votes of 14 million Thais

 

https://twitter.com/zenjournalist/status/1679790975995002880/photo/1

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by anchadian

[Surasak]

I have to wonder how many palms were greased to get the result the Senate wanted?

[Sydebolle]

What a ridiculous farçe - let's see, what those 14+ million voters have to say who got nicely shafted once more again. But yes, it is an US-pleasing democratic movement trail, according to Washington DC 

[kingstonkid]

9 hours ago, bannork said:

Oh the irony of the spectre of Prayuth's senators, anti Thaksin to the man, voting for his party's candidate.

Will they do it or will they insist MF are removed from the coalition first, either by PT or the court?

Moving MFP from the coalition would be the best thing that could happen to MFP.  They would then be the official opposition and would be able to then make life complete hell for the government. 

 

Remember that the only way that PT can form a government is with a coalition.  Take away MFP, and the PT is left making deals with Prawit and Anutin. 

That would make them, by default a military backing party.  Not a good idea in this day and age.

 

also, the people will start to remember all those great promises that PT made and start looking for the 10k baht as well as guaranteed wages for BA holders.

 

PT would also have to deal with all the protestors and would be very carefully watched to see who they put in as senators next spring.

 

This may in fact be a case of be careful what you wish for you might just get it.

 

[shortstop2]

I thought that I read that each party can submit 3 possible candidate for PM.  I also thought I read that Move Forward only submitted 1.  Is this correct?

 

Even if Pheu Thai is secretly pleased at this turn of events, I would suspect that they will let this play out slowly to keep both their credibility and the coalition strong.

[daejung]

1 hour ago, h90 said:

We had several countries where the president said he would not make a specific person to the prime minister even if his party wins.

Often that is when a right wing party is about to win in Europe or a party that says that they want to make a referendum about leaving the European Union.

No democracy allows the army to appoint senators

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, anchadian said:

(1/2) BREAKING: Parliament President Wan on Fri accepts a petition by MFP MPs seeking to amend Article 272 of the junta-sponsored charter which if successful would remove the power of the junta-appointed senators to jointly vote with elected MPs for PM.

 

(2/2) In order to succeed, they will need at least 376 votes from the parliament, approval from one third of the junta-appointed senators, or 84 of them, and at least 20 percent of the votes from opposition parties.

 

https://twitter.com/KhaosodEnglish/status/167

9778310631604224

 

 

Which is hilarious. The senators already pushed against the house in the PM vote and now the house wants more than a third of senators to agree to remove the power of the senators? Fat chance.

[LALes]

The guys with the guns set it up so that they can't lose.  You wanna challenge that?

[Maejo Man]

2 hours ago, anchadian said:

If the senators have an online presence they are going to cop heaps of abuse. Is this clown going to sue them all for defamation? I am sorely tempted to give him some stick on his facebook page.

 

Junta-appointed senator Somchai Sawaengkarn posted on Fri senators are being bullied online by "packs of hyenas" (after they overwhelming voted against PM candidate Pita). Somchai said he'll sue them for defamation. "#prisonareforevilpeople" he adds. #Thailand #ธุรกิจสว

 

 

 

 

[Gilligan In Drag]

As much as I feel bad that people probably won't get to have the person they voted for

as PM, there just isn't much of a spirit or will to have a democratic country, in daily life the traditional culture is very much about shut up and do as Pee Chai told you or get out of here. You can't stand up for yourself even a little bit. Do that and have the whole group against you.

 

Just as Thaksin, although he was supposedly and probably more or less elected, bragged that he would

do anything in his power not to leave. When he was around You never felt like he even remotely respected democratic principals unless of course it benefitted himself and as i recall he was very open a about that that it was a big ironic joke to him, that you idiots elected me, too bad suckers, the country is mine now! You snooze you lose! I always had this funny feeling all the time that he was just taking the pizz, as they say.

 

I have no idea about Pita, but most people don't respect fairness or democratic principals here or anywhere, you get laughed at by most people in the west. I really don't have much faith Pita would do anything more than be another self-serving wanna be autocrat. People in the west have been so propagandized by nonsense for decades they seem to want a non-elected government. "Democracy?! How quaint! How  passé. Run along then and go play on your tricycle!"

 

As you might recall in the U.S., it was revealed in the files hacked from the Democrtic party computers, minutes taken from eeting correspondence between party honchos etc  that they hold absolute contempt voters that it is all about controlling the press wining and dining and getting contributions from the big donors. Of course you can glean all of that anyway, but there it was rubbed in your face: your vote means funk all ya buncha bumpkins! Give us your milk  money now or we'll beat you up! The voters are the deplorables not just Trump supporters were spoken of in theose kind of terms between party members. As much as I like Robert Kennedy Junior he will. not get my vote as long as he is running under that party, I don;t know what is wrong with him or what kind of game he is playing though I have a few gusses, and he is undermining himself and all of the good things he has been doing fighting corporate crimes against the people.

 

The Democratic party was taken to court over it,  how Bernie Sanders won the vote and the voters shafted. That the U.S. presidential candidate is selected was underscored by the court's decision. The judge basically said in essence, "We don't need your crap in this court room! The stinkin voters, gimme a break! The Democratic Party is a private independent organization, a club if you will, and it is entirely up to them what they wanna do, if you don't like it then don't vote for their candidates, end of story,  scram get outta heah! Waste my time with your garbage!"

 

The weakness and corruption of many other leaers in the west its hard to believe too that they are the product of any authentic democratic process. Still I stand by Thailand's voters no matter what Pita is really about or how he got where he did. We have to start somehwere and those have got to go, basta ya! As they say to the CIA installed coups year after year when their democratically electd governments are overturned by games, assassinations, coups etc by the United States.

[Ginner]

11 hours ago, sirineou said:

I don't know why they even hold a general election.

Even though my wife and her sister did not vote for Pita, in a conversation we had yesterday, they both said that if Pita is not PM , they are not wasting their time voting again.

I am sure they are the only ones to feel that way.

The house will accept another  less 

 

11 hours ago, stoner said:

anyone who didn't vote or was absent yesterday (without an iron clad reason like imminent death or being held captive by insurgents)  should be automatically fired from their position. 

 

the number needed should be dropped to reflect those that refused and a new total needed. 

 

simple.

The house Will accept another candidate, who is "less confrontational". in other words, they want someone they can buy.

[Enzian]

Those who are saddened that Polish jokes are now frowned upon and out of fashion (for good reason I'd say), will be heartened to learn that there is now a replacement country available that inspires clever inventions!

[Dario]

Another scenario is likely to emerge. On the July 13 vote Pita was the only contender for the post of prime minister. Since Pita has no possible chances to succeed on July 19 or 20, that could change. Another possible prime minister candidate is likely to emerge: Prawit Wongsuwan. With all the allies he has, he could amass as many as 188 votes, Of course, all the senators would back him, so he would end up with possibly 250 additional votes, if all the senators would vote this time. Anyway, far over the required 376 votes necessary to win.

This scenario is very likely and would satisfy many people who don't support Pita. The whole "coalition" of Move Forward, Pheu Thai & Co. would end up in the opposition.

In my humble meaning, this is what is going to happen very soon. I might be wrong, only time will tell.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Dario

[bannork]

3 minutes ago, Dario said:

Another scenario is likely to emerge. On the July 13 vote Pita was th only contender for the post of prime minister. Since Pita has no possible chances to succeed on July 19 or 20, that could change. Another possible prime minister candidate is likely to emerge: Prawit Wongsuwan. With all the allies he has, he could amass as many as 188 votes, Of course, all the senators would back him, so he would end up with possibly 250 additional votes, if all the senators would vote this time. Anyway, far over the required 376 votes necessary to win.

This scenario is very likely and would satisfy many people who don't support Pita. The whole "coalition" of Move Forward, Pheu Thai & Co. would end up in the opposition.

In my humble meaning, this is what is going to happen very soon. I might be wrong, only time will tell.

It would be a minority government, every bill destined to fail unless PT joined them as well.

But that would disgust many PT supporters and some of their MPs who vowed never to work with the military backed parties again.

Edited July 14, 2023 by bannork

[eisfeld]

6 minutes ago, Dario said:

Another scenario is likely to emerge. On the July 13 vote Pita was the only contender for the post of prime minister. Since Pita has no possible chances to succeed on July 19 or 20, that could change. Another possible prime minister candidate is likely to emerge: Prawit Wongsuwan. With all the allies he has, he could amass as many as 188 votes, Of course, all the senators would back him, so he would end up with possibly 250 additional votes, if all the senators would vote this time. Anyway, far over the required 376 votes necessary to win.

This scenario is very likely and would satisfy many people who don't support Pita. The whole "coalition" of Move Forward, Pheu Thai & Co. would end up in the opposition.

In my humble meaning, this is what is going to happen very soon. I might be wrong, only time will tell.

Completely unrealistic. That government would fail to pass anything through the house unless PT flips which I doubt because it would mean political suicide for PT.

[RichardColeman]

The whole set up means there will never be a new democratic government here in Thailand, you are going to need 376 to win if 750 voters. Take out the 250 disgustingly put in senators and you only need 126 of the opposition to block any candidate. Which basically means a small opposition of say 130 can block any new PM until the next election

 

There should be a vote - first with the 250 senators. No PM then the military appointed are removed from the vote. OR the senators can stay in place but they cannot vote on new PM, but can block his policies (hate it, but its a compromise)

 

 

[bannork]

Regarding coups and judicial intervention to cripple parties, I think the situation now is different to when Thaksin's parties were dissolved. 

At that time a large part of the middle class rallied to the conservative forces, the Democrat Party was still significant, and Thaksin himself was seen as a threat to the traditional order and the reverence surrounding its pinnacle.

But now a large percentage of the middle class support MF. The obvious manoeuvres of the establishment to remove MF's rightful claim to power are angering white collar workers who see MF as the one and only party to take Thailand  forward.

I'm not sure a coup or 'fixing' Parliament will work this time 

 

[eisfeld]

I thought of another scenario that I haven't read anywhere else yet:

 

Pheu Thai puts forward their PM candidate which the senate might accept. Then after less than year when the power of the senate is severely reduced they'll swap him out for Pita. The election of a PM does not need to happen after an election and when the 5 year transitionary clauses expire the house can as far as I could see elect a PM without needing the senate.

[eisfeld]

29 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

The whole set up means there will never be a new democratic government here in Thailand, you are going to need 376 to win if 750 voters. Take out the 250 disgustingly put in senators and you only need 126 of the opposition to block any candidate. Which basically means a small opposition of say 130 can block any new PM until the next election

This changes next year. Section 272 which stipulates the requirement of needing both House of Representatives and Senate to vote on a PM expires.