change marriage visa after divorce

[tingtong]

hi,

 

we came to the conclusion with wife to divorce. ( peacefully). technically separated for a few years now. 

currently staying in Thailand on Non-O based on marriage, with the yearly permission to stay extensions.

we have a 21 yo son, currently in University, for another 2 years left.

i am currently 47. i am not planning to rush into a new marriage just yet with girlfriend.

 

what are my options to stay?

can i switch to or get an extention of stay based on supporting a Thai child studying in university?

if so, do i need to leave country an re-enter with a fresh non-O visa?

 

if status cant be switched here, is it easy to get at home embassy ( EU) a non-O multiple entry 1 yr visa based on having a Thai son ( family)?

 

would appriceiate any feedback from someone with experience about this topic.

many thank!

Z

 

 

 

[Tod Daniels]

You can only use Thai children as a reason for an extension until they are 20 years old. So your child is out as a reason to get an extension.

 

I would say before you divorce go to the Thai consulate in Savannakhet Lao and get a year-long, multi-entry non-o visa based on marriage.

 

That Visa is valid for a year from the day they issue it whether you divorce or not.

 

On that visa you have to bounce in and out every 90 days, but you can do that for a whole year (even if you divorce or won't invalidate the visa).

 

You can get almost 15 months of stay out of that year long, multi entry Non-O visa.

 

[BritTim]

There is no long term extension that fits your case. The suggestion of a multiple entry Non O visa (based on marriage to a Thai) from Savannakhet is a good one, giving you another year, at least. After that, best would be half the year in Thailand as a tourist, and half outside the country. The easy solution, if you can afford it, is a Thailand Elite membership.

[brianthainess]

3 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

 

I would say before you divorce go to the Thai consulate in Savannakhet Lao and get a year-long, multi-entry non-o visa based on marriage

If the wife is ok with it, is that renewable?

[tingtong]

the current extention runs until end of September. 

i could ask wife to keep the paper marriage ( we are on friendly terms enough), but being separated long enough, i think a close to it would be the right thing to do.

for that i could do locally, without a trip out to Laos, but just not ideal given the situation.

is really unfortunate that while i spending approx 20-25k a month all inclusive my son's university education, this doesnt count as supporting a Thai kid, once he is over 20yo.

 

 

[Lite Beer]

As far as I know there is no requirement for the child to be under the age of 20. There is no mention of it in the Police Order

 You might be able to stay under the care of your  Son with you needing nothing in the bank.

Go and ask Immigration.

 

In the case of being a family member of a Thai national (applicable only to parents, spouse, children,
adopted children, or spouse’s children):

Criteria for Consideration

 

The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

The alien must have proof of relationship.

In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less
than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht
400,000 to cover expenses for one year.
For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau
is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Lite Beer

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

As far as I know there is no requirement for the child to be under the age of 20. There is no mention of it in the Police Order

 You might be able to stay under the care of your  Son with you needing nothing in the bank.

Go and ask Immigration.

 

In the case of being a family member of a Thai national (applicable only to parents, spouse, children,
adopted children, or spouse’s children):

Criteria for Consideration

 

The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

The alien must have proof of relationship.

In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less
than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht
400,000 to cover expenses for one year.
For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau
is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis.

I assume the OP is asking about applying for an extension of stay under reason 2.18 which includes this:

 

 

where the 20-year-old age limit is specifically mentioned. 

(Source: Police Order No. 327/2557 as translated by Siam Translation)

 

I am wondering if the OP is old enough (at least age 50) to apply for a retirement extension.

 

 

[Maestro]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

I assume the OP is asking about applying for an extension of stay under reason 2.18 which includes this:

 

 

where the 20-year-old age limit is specifically mentioned. 

(Source: Police Order No. 327/2557 as translated by Siam Translation)

 

I am wondering if the OP is old enough (at least age 50) to apply for a retirement extension.

 

 

The English translation of Clause 2.18 can be confusing and, in fact, had me confused until it was pointed out to me that in the police orders about extensions of stay,

 

1. "In the case of children" means that if the applicant for the extension is a child, Clause 2.18(4)

 

2.  "In the case of parents" means that if the applicant for the extension is a parent, Clause 2.18(5)

 

The OP qualifies for application under the first paragraph of Clause 2.18(5) which, simplified, reads as follows:

"If the applicant is a parent, that parent must maintain an average annual income of no less than 40,000 Baht per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than 400,000 Baht to cover expenses for one year"

Police Order 327_2557 (2014) - extension criteria & conditions en - Siam Translation.pdf

 

No age limit, neither for the child of Thai nationality of whom the applicant is a parent nor for the applicant.

 

Seeing that the OP has been on marriage extensions for years, he already has 400k in the bank and thus easily meets this requirement.

 

[Lite Beer]

7 hours ago, BritTim said:

I assume the OP is asking about applying for an extension of stay under reason 2.18 which includes this:

 

 

where the 20-year-old age limit is specifically mentioned. 

(Source: Police Order No. 327/2557 as translated by Siam Translation)

 

I am wondering if the OP is old enough (at least age 50) to apply for a retirement extension.

 

 

You are looking at the wrong clause.

There is no requirement for the child to be 20 years old or under.

So the op qualifies for 12 month extensions.

 

The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

The alien must have proof of relationship.

In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less
than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht
400,000 to cover expenses for one year.
For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau
is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Lite Beer

[Skipalongcassidy]

If you plan to stay in Thailand full time your best option is to stay married and hope that you don't get caught not living with your wife for the next 3 years...

[Lite Beer]

His best option is to get yearly extensions based on having a Thai Son.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Lite Beer said:

You are looking at the wrong clause.

There is no requirement for the child to be 20 years old or under.

So the op qualifies for 12 month extensions.

 

The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

The alien must have proof of relationship.

In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less
than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht
400,000 to cover expenses for one year.
For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau
is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis.

Let's look carefully at this:

Quote

In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse's children, said children, adopted children, or spouse's children must not be married, must live with the alien as part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age

I do not believe this is talking about an extension of stay for a Thai child under the age of 20 living with an alien parent. Even by Thai standards, that would be ridiculous.

It is surely saying that the alien can get an extension of stay based on their relationship with a minor Thai child.

 

Reason 2.18 (5) is noting additional requirements when qualifying as a parent of a minor Thai child under 2.18 (4) or as an elderly parent being supported by an adult Thai child. It is similar to (6) being an additional requirement when you qualify under 2.18 (3).

The counter argument is that the translation has an "or" between 2.18 (4) and 2.18 (5). I believe that is an error. The original Thai does not imply that (4) and (5) are alternatives.

 

The whole wording of reason 2.18 is horrendous, and ought to be justification to have the lawyer who drew it up disbarred. However, a careful forensic examination still enables the meaning to be deciphered.

[Lite Beer]

You are reading it all wrong.

This has come up before and I believe that Ubon Joe cleared this up.

The OP should go and talk to Immigration rather than rely on your interpretation of the rule that is in my view wrong.

I know of Fathers who extend their permission to stay every year based on having a Thai child over the age of 20.

The rule is pretty clear.

No mention of ages.

 

In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less
than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht
400,000 to cover expenses for one year.
For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau

Edited July 25, 2023 by Lite Beer

[Lite Beer]

I have tried searching for previous topics on this, but the search system is so useless I gave up.

I suggest the OP goes to Immigration and ask for advise.

[renaissanc]

Mayb this will help:
https://chiangmaivisashop.com/thai-child-visa/

[CecilM]

I don’t have a good answer what to do. One idea is 5yr Elite visa, then you’ll be over 50 and can get Retirement visa. Or it’s 2.5 years of “6 months-in, 6 months-out”; and time the last 6 months-in to be your 50th and get Retirement visa. 

There’s an increasing chance that immigration officers will do spot checks and they would find out you’re not married anymore.
Don’t jeopardize your future here by staying on the wrong visa now. 

[dayo202]

I read somewhere on here in the past.

The day you get divorced, you non imm O visa based on marriage will no longer be valid. Basically you be on overstay once your divorce is finalized.

Maybe Thai immigration wil give you 7 days for you to get sorted and swap onto a different visa.

[glegolo18]

22 hours ago, tingtong said:

hi,

 

we came to the conclusion with wife to divorce. ( peacefully). technically separated for a few years now. 

currently staying in Thailand on Non-O based on marriage, with the yearly permission to stay extensions.

we have a 21 yo son, currently in University, for another 2 years left.

i am currently 47. i am not planning to rush into a new marriage just yet with girlfriend.

 

what are my options to stay?

can i switch to or get an extention of stay based on supporting a Thai child studying in university?

if so, do i need to leave country an re-enter with a fresh non-O visa?

 

if status cant be switched here, is it easy to get at home embassy ( EU) a non-O multiple entry 1 yr visa based on having a Thai son ( family)?

 

would appriceiate any feedback from someone with experience about this topic.

many thank!

Z

 

 

 

My advice is that you EXTEND your marriage up till your 50th birthday and just apply for retirement as reason for extension and then you can divorce your old lady. Can you hold her calm in 3 more years????

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, dayo202 said:

I read somewhere on here in the past.

The day you get divorced, you non imm O visa based on marriage will no longer be valid. Basically you be on overstay once your divorce is finalized.

Maybe Thai immigration wil give you 7 days for you to get sorted and swap onto a different visa.

If you have an extension of stay based on marriage, this is correct. Your permission to stay based on marriage ends on the day your divorce is finalised. However, the rules with a Non O visa from an embassy/consulate are different. An entry using a single or multiple entry Non O visa issued while you were still married is still permitted, and gives you a 90-day stay.

[grain]

8 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

If you plan to stay in Thailand full time your best option is to stay married and hope that you don't get caught not living with your wife for the next 3 years...

Agree, I know a few guys who's marriages have broken down but they stay on good friendly terms with their ex wives who help them with the annual visa renewals. Best option here is to keep on with the marriage visa for 3 more years then get on the retirement ext.

[Lite Beer]

1 hour ago, grain said:

Agree, I know a few guys who's marriages have broken down but they stay on good friendly terms with their ex wives who help them with the annual visa renewals. Best option here is to keep on with the marriage visa for 3 more years then get on the retirement ext.

That is ok until they come checking that you actually live together as man and wife.

Hopefully they won't.

[tingtong]

19 hours ago, BritTim said:

I assume the OP is asking about applying for an extension of stay under reason 2.18 which includes this:

 

 

where the 20-year-old age limit is specifically mentioned. 

(Source: Police Order No. 327/2557 as translated by Siam Translation)

 

I am wondering if the OP is old enough (at least age 50) to apply for a retirement extension.

 

 

yes, meant that.

in first post mentioned my age is 47. unfortunate but not yet the age for retirement based visa. the upping the 400k to 800k in the bank wouldnt be an issue, i would rather do that than throw money at Elite visa.

[tingtong]

11 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

You are looking at the wrong clause.

There is no requirement for the child to be 20 years old or under.

So the op qualifies for 12 month extensions.

 

The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

The alien must have proof of relationship.

In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less
than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht
400,000 to cover expenses for one year.
For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau
is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis.

where things get a little tricky....

bcos i could walk in to immigration office and ask about the new extention to be granted based on child ( if age limit not issue), and not based on marriage, but if they decide to deny i would be fully in their timeline to leave the country, which i prefer to arrange on my timeline.

[tingtong]

5 hours ago, glegolo18 said:

My advice is that you EXTEND your marriage up till your 50th birthday and just apply for retirement as reason for extension and then you can divorce your old lady. Can you hold her calm in 3 more years????

yep, that would be the simple way, but the answer is not. 3 years more is just a no go.

[tingtong]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

If you have an extension of stay based on marriage, this is correct. Your permission to stay based on marriage ends on the day your divorce is finalised. However, the rules with a Non O visa from an embassy/consulate are different. An entry using a single or multiple entry Non O visa issued while you were still married is still permitted, and gives you a 90-day stay.

thus the question ???? 

i am on that extention of stay based on marriage. in case the divorce, and revoking that, would that be possible to swap to an extention of stay based on thai son? 

[Pib]

8 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

I have tried searching for previous topics on this, but the search system is so useless I gave up.

I suggest the OP goes to Immigration and ask for advise.

Here's a couple years old thread from Ubonjoe talking the confusion regarding a visa/extension for a farang based on supporting a Thai child.  

 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Pib

[DrJack54]

OP, take notice of posts from ubonjoe in this thread.

Does not refer to age limit. 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/850608-dependant-extension-to-retirement/

Edited July 25, 2023 by DrJack54

[Pib]

From Bangkok Immigration

https://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/visa-extension/#1610937437663-90b1feab-b48a

 

See line item 18: In case of being a family member of a Thai National.  There is no mention of Thai children age requirement.

 

VISA SPOUSE / THAI CHILDERN

Criteria for Consideration

1)  Applicant must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-O)

2)  Having proof of relationship

3)  Having evidences of nationality of Thai spouse or Thai children

4)  In the case of spouse, relationship must be de jure and de facto

Documents to be submitted

1)  Application Form for extension of temporary stay (TM.7) attached with one photo of applicant

2)  Copy of passport first page with photo and copy last stamp, first visa, last visa, departure card(TM 6), evidence of report address, evidence of report 90 days

3)  Evidence of relationship

3.1  In the case of spouse
– Marriage Certificate (khor lor 2 and khor lor 3) or ;
– Marriage Certificate from abroad must be certified by the Embassy and the Department of Consular Affairs in Thailand

3.2  In the case of Thai children
– Copy of Birth certificate and household registration of child/children

4)  Copy of Identification and household registration of Thai spouse or any other document proving Thai nationality issued by authority or governmental agency concerned

5)  Copy of House lease agreement, Identification and household registration of owner with certified signature

6)  Application fee is 1,900 Baht

7)  Any other relevant documents which may be required for consideration

REMARKS:

1)  Applicant and spouse must contact in person for an interview

2)  The originals of required documents must be shown to the competent officer and photocopied with certified signature by applicant

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, tingtong said:

thus the question ???? 

i am on that extention of stay based on marriage. in case the divorce, and revoking that, would that be possible to swap to an extention of stay based on thai son? 

According to my reading of Reason 2.18 in the Police Order on extensions of temporary stay, both 2.18 (4) and 2.18 (5) apply. If so, you can only use a Thai son as the reason to stay if your son is under age 20, and you are staying in the same household. You also need to show 400,000 baht in the bank on the date of application.

However, others disagree with me vehemently, and believe a Thai child living with the alien (in 2.18 (4)) was a scrivener's error with the real intended meaning is an alien child living with a Thai parent. They presumably believe you can be living anywhere, and the age of the child is irrelevant.

 

Here is the whole of Reason 2.18 (which everyone seems to agree is the relevant Section:

 

You could read it carefully and see what you think it means. Note that the "or" between 2.18 (4) and 2.18 (5) is not implied in the original Thai version. I think the translator erroneously added that. 2.18 (5) adds conditions for some who qualify under 2.18 (4) and 2.18 (6) adds conditions for 2.18 (3)

 

In the end, it will be the interpretation of the Thai officials reading the Thai version which counts. You need to ask them.

 

Meanwhile, is there any member who has successfully applied for a one-year extension of stay (not a visa at a consulate, or 60-day extension to visit) based on being the parent of a child over 20. I have not, though I know of two cases where an elderly foreign father successfully received an extension to be under the care of an adult Thai child.

[CecilM]

19 hours ago, glegolo18 said:

My advice is that you EXTEND your marriage up till your 50th birthday and just apply for retirement as reason for extension and then you can divorce your old lady. Can you hold her calm in 3 more years????

Easiest solution if all parties can agree. That would require them making it work and actually living together (photos for visa application & possible visit by Immigration Officer).