Rejection of Pita’s renomination as PM ‘unconstitutional’ : Ombudsman

[bradiston]

3 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

Think of the "Ombudsman" as a One-Man Committee.

 

In Thailand the first response to an issue is to form a committee.

 

No power or influence, ceremonial at best, always ignored. Just another in the sea of voices expressing "concern" about certain issues.

 

A gnat on the backside of the buffalo which is the current Thai administrative state. Annoying? Maybe. But easily swatted away with a swipe of the tail.

 

 

I've used the ombudsman in Thailand as I have in the UK, although it's changed its name there. In Thailand, they were extremely helpful. They ordered an enquiry into police behaviour in a case I was involved in, and took the local mayor to task for threatening me with violence over a supposedly unpaid water bill.

 

They aren't the paid patsies you make them out to be at all. But you will probably need an interpreter if you don't speak fluent Thai.

[newnative]

     The CC needs to nail down the voting process for PM, not just for this term but for future terms.  It's ludicrous, in my opinion, to only allow a PM candidate to be voted for one time.

[thailand49]

2 hours ago, pomchop said:

Maybe the court should take a look at how the junta rewrote the constitution and placed 250 UNELECTED flunkies into the senate to rig the rules so nobody can ever seriously challenge their control after staging an illegal coup?

Correct!   I use to joke over coffee with other expat here.

Puppet Chan-O was pick for a reason <deleted> or years those who picked him delayed and delayed election while they rewrote the constitution to the way that would continue to fund the cash cow and put those in power to maintain the same system while hiding their corruption as being Democratic. 

The last two years prior to election they delayed again to make sure them the took it to the big house for some old monk or advisor I read the guy was like 95 plus to approve. 

If correct do the math connect the dots who is pulling the strings?????

[bamnutsak]

10 minutes ago, bradiston said:

They aren't the paid patsies you make them out to be at all.

There is a long, long, long public history of the Ombudsman (actually a committee) ignoring or not pursuing complaints.

 

Often, when going up against the regime they claim they do not have "the authority" to do anything. AFAIK, they do not have any power or authority. All they can do is refer or reject "complaints".

 

This is a ceremonial vestige from Olde Siam, where one could petition the King.

 

Yes, in your case they pushed back on a minor unelected government official. Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by bamnutsak

[bradiston]

5 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

Let me try to get this straight since it's a twisted noodle.

 

The Constitutional Court barred Pita from being re-nominated.

Now the Ombudsman thinks this Constitutional Court order maybe unconstitutional and asks the (guess who) Constitutional Court to take another look under the hood...

 

Conclusion: Obfuscation can be a tricky thing, if you don't know what your doing you will look like inept numpties...

 

No. The CC weren't involved in the renomination at first. It was the speaker who messed up. He should have ruled straight away that a ban under rule 41 didnt apply to the nomination procedure. But he doesn't know his stuff, and got bullied and bulldozed into allowing it to be debated and then voted on. Of course it went down, but it should never have happened in the first place.

 

Interestingly, it was the chief architect of the 2017 constitution, Borwornsak Uwanno and one or two other lawyers, who spoke up and urged Pita to go to the ombudsman with a complaint that the ruling was unconstitutional. And the ombudsman has taken it up and forwarded it to the CC.

 

This is not a stupid game or a waste of time. There is a vendetta against Pita, just as there was against Thanathorn, and he needs to fight it and expose it. This time though it's being dragged into the spotlight for all to see. Day by day. It's all over the media. It's unravelling for the axis.

[bradiston]

17 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

There is a long, long, long public history of the Ombudsman (actually a committee) ignoring or not pursuing complaints.

 

Often, when going up against the regime they claim they do not have "the authority" to do anything. AFAIK, they do not have any power or authority. All they can do is refer or reject "complaints".

 

This is a ceremonial vestige from Olde Siam, where one could petition the King.

 

Yes, in your case they pushed back on a minor unelected government official. Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You got any experience yourself of their services? Apart from a "long, long, long" one?

Edited July 25, 2023 by bradiston

[bamnutsak]

1 minute ago, bradiston said:

You got any experience yourself of their services?

No.

 

 

[bradiston]

23 minutes ago, newnative said:

     The CC needs to nail down the voting process for PM, not just for this term but for future terms.  It's ludicrous, in my opinion, to only allow a PM candidate to be voted for one time.

That's also why Pita was urged to go to the ombudsman, so as to hopefully avoid a precedent bring set.

[Sydebolle]

Don't tell me that the elite, the oligarchs, the selected few and the dinosaurs overdid it this time?

[grandpa]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

17 complaints over the issue had been submitted to the office by MPs and people.

That says it all!  MPs are clearly not people.  Not sure what that makes Senators!

[Ginner]

15 hours ago, Stanaris said:

Whether his renomination was unconstitutional or not is irrelevant as pita was ordered to step down due to an order from the constitutional court. Well that is my understanding but I am sure the experts on here will correct me if this is wrong.

 

There will be a few guys expecting large brown envelopes to pass over their desk to sway a vote one way or another.

[damian]

34 minutes ago, bradiston said:

No. The CC weren't involved in the renomination at first. It was the speaker who messed up. He should have ruled straight away that a ban under rule 41 didnt apply to the nomination procedure. But he doesn't know his stuff, and got bullied and bulldozed into allowing it to be debated and then voted on. Of course it went down, but it should never have happened in the first place.

 

Old Wan hey. Picked for his vast experience. 

[sammieuk1]

Pita is not toast yet as a Lazarus moment is on the cards but that word constitutional is lurking and that only means money ????

[bradiston]

3 minutes ago, damian said:

Old Wan hey. Picked for his vast experience. 

Sure. Looked good at the time though. Best of a bad bunch. PT and MFP were squabbling over it. Part of the PM package.

[newnative]

32 minutes ago, bradiston said:

That's also why Pita was urged to go to the ombudsman, so as to hopefully avoid a precedent bring set.

Yes, and it would be a bad precedent, IMO.

[Eric Loh]

If the Court ruled that the rejection of Pita;s renomination is constitutional, then it follows that those who voted against Pita have committed an unlawful act and should be suspended or even banned from politics. I hope the MFP's legal team will push forward this case after court's verdict. Payback time. 

[spidermike007]

Unconstitutional, unethical, likely illegal, corrupt, ugly, snarly, sleazy, suspicious, bizarre, fishy, ill mannered, inconsiderate, and arrogant. 

 

Can anything be done about it? Why have only 1,000 people shown up for a protest? Does anyone care? Where is the anger, indignation, and refusal to accept such a miscarriage of justice? Do the Thai people have any fight in them, or is this a complete surrender to the forces of darkness? 

[bradiston]

14 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

If the Court ruled that the rejection of Pita;s renomination is constitutional, then it follows that those who voted against Pita have committed an unlawful act and should be suspended or even banned from politics. I hope the MFP's legal team will push forward this case after court's verdict. Payback time. 

You mean unconstitutional? They have yet to rule. But yes, There's a move by a well respected lawyer to have them all bashed.

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thai-anti-corruption-watchdog-asked-to-probe-235-senators-who-rejected-pitas-pm-bid/

 

See the note at the end of the article. Vendetta leader Ruangkrai (English transliteration Woongker) has asked the NACC to investigate 6 of the Senators who supported Pita. But not one of those who opposed him. This guy's a real one off wingnut.

Edited July 25, 2023 by bradiston

[Mohican]

I doubt that Pita will get to introduce his progressive agenda.

It would be far too easy in this country to arrange an 'accident' and remove the threat to the powers that be. He may well end up being the martyr.

In the end you cannot stop the tide of history though - however hard you try. There is a new generation that wants a piece of the pie and they can't see why they can't have it. The wait has already been too long for many.

Step by step, inch by inch change is coming. Confrontation however is a very dangerous step that only plays into the hands of the reactionary forces and justifies 'control'. you lay odds they are itching for that excuse.

 

[bradiston]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Unconstitutional, unethical, likely illegal, corrupt, ugly, snarly, sleazy, suspicious, bizarre, fishy, ill mannered, inconsiderate, and arrogant. 

 

Can anything be done about it? Why have only 1,000 people shown up for a protest? Does anyone care? Where is the anger, indignation, and refusal to accept such a miscarriage of justice? Do the Thai people have any fight in them, or is this a complete surrender to the forces of darkness? 

Jay yen, spider. All in good time!

[sambum]

16 hours ago, Stanaris said:

Whether his renomination was unconstitutional or not is irrelevant as pita was ordered to step down due to an order from the constitutional court. Well that is my understanding but I am sure the experts on here will correct me if this is wrong.

 

 "........pita was ordered to step down due to an order from the constitutional court."

 

"rejecting the Move Forward party leader’s renomination as a prime ministerial candidate, and demanding that the case be forwarded to the Constitutional Court for consideration."

 

So, the way that I read it is that the Constitutional Court ordered Pita to step down, but the Ombudsman is now saying that that order was "unconstitutional"/illegal", and that they should reverse their decision and allow Pita's renomination to go ahead.

 

However, that now seems "academic" as Pita and the MFP have now effectively "thrown the towel in", and another coalition party has put forward a candidate for PM, so all this seems to be now is a face saving exercise, which as we know is of paramount importance here in Thailand! 

 

 

 

 

 

[cleopatra2]

5 minutes ago, sambum said:

 "........pita was ordered to step down due to an order from the constitutional court."

 

"rejecting the Move Forward party leader’s renomination as a prime ministerial candidate, and demanding that the case be forwarded to the Constitutional Court for consideration."

 

So, the way that I read it is that the Constitutional Court ordered Pita to step down, but the Ombudsman is now saying that that order was "unconstitutional"/illegal", and that they should reverse their decision and allow Pita's renomination to go ahead.

 

However, that now seems "academic" as Pita and the MFP have now effectively "thrown the towel in", and another coalition party has put forward a candidate for PM, so all this seems to be now is a face saving exercise, which as we know is of paramount importance here in Thailand! 

 

 

 

 

 

The Ombudsman is saying Parliaments use of rule 41 was unconstitutional.Thus has refered the use of rule 41 to not accept the renomination to the CC .

The CC acceptance of the EC Pita shares and subsequent suspension is not being challenged by the ombudsman 

[sambum]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

No. The CC weren't involved in the renomination at first. It was the speaker who messed up. He should have ruled straight away that a ban under rule 41 didnt apply to the nomination procedure. But he doesn't know his stuff, and got bullied and bulldozed into allowing it to be debated and then voted on. Of course it went down, but it should never have happened in the first place.

 

Interestingly, it was the chief architect of the 2017 constitution, Borwornsak Uwanno and one or two other lawyers, who spoke up and urged Pita to go to the ombudsman with a complaint that the ruling was unconstitutional. And the ombudsman has taken it up and forwarded it to the CC.

 

This is not a stupid game or a waste of time. There is a vendetta against Pita, just as there was against Thanathorn, and he needs to fight it and expose it. This time though it's being dragged into the spotlight for all to see. Day by day. It's all over the media. It's unravelling for the axis.

"There is a vendetta against Pita, just as there was against Thanathorn,........."

 

Correct, and it would appear that if they thought they could have got away with it, they would have charged Pita and the MFP for threatening to change the Constitution regarding the Lese Majeste law. It would also seem irrelevant in their eyes that the placement of 250 unelected Senators was unconstitutional, and therefore Prayut illegally changed the Constitution to allow that to happen! And that he took power illegally from a legally elected Government! 

The current Government run by the military junta has been a totally hypocritical set up from the start, and as pointed out previously, their mantra seems to have been "do as I say, not as I do", and for the to call their Government "democratic" is the very epitome of hypocricy!

[bizboi]

4 hours ago, Enoon said:

It doesn't matter.

 

Votes for MF and PT alone in the election show that at least 66% of those who voted do not favour the creatures in power.

 

Their "Scourging of Pita" only makes them look worse. 

 

With each stroke of the lash hatred for them grows.

 

Every day they further incriminate themselves.

 

Every day they blindly plunge on, closer towards their tragic destiny.

 

Perfect.

 

 

I hope you’re right- however they have the army behind them and they have guns! As history shows they can deal with the aftermath of using them when the smoke clears.

[Eric Loh]

55 minutes ago, bradiston said:

You mean unconstitutional? They have yet to rule. But yes, There's a move by a well respected lawyer to have them all bashed.

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thai-anti-corruption-watchdog-asked-to-probe-235-senators-who-rejected-pitas-pm-bid/

 

See the note at the end of the article. Vendetta leader Ruangkrai (English transliteration Woongker) has asked the NACC to investigate 6 of the Senators who supported Pita. But not one of those who opposed him. This guy's a real one off wingnut.

A member of the Constitution Drafting Assembly, Sawet Thinnakul has handed a letter to the NACC yesterday seeking legal action against MPs and senators who didn’t allow Pita to stand for denomination on the 19 July. He want legal action taken against those who opposed Pita’s renominating quoting Parliamentary Rule No. 41. Payback hopefully. 

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/politics/40029653

[ballpoint]

The long weekend coming up will be a good indicator of how people will react to this.  Hopefully Bangkok office workers and students will use their days off to protest at the theft of their futures.  A big crowd on the first days may even attract upcountry people to travel to Bangkok to join in.  A small turn out, however, would be disappointing to say the least, but could well indicate a fear of the authorities and/or an air of resignation and loss of hope for that future.  Personally, I think it will be the best gauge of the feelings of the Bangkok middle classes.  I hope they move that gauge off scale.

[Purdey]

Renominated but rejected by the Senate. What's changed? 

[anchadian]

It's that clown again:

 

Palang Pracharath Party member Ruangkrai Leekitwattana has asked the Constitutional Court to review the Office of the Ombudsman's decision to forward a petition from the Move Forward Party to the court. The petition seeks the court's ruling on the rejection of Pita's renomination by 394 parliamentarians. Ruangkrai questions whether the Office of the Ombudsman is defying the power of the legislative branch or not. He asks the court to rule whether the office has a duty and jurisdiction to forward the case to the court or not.

 

https://twitter.com/ThaiEnquirer/status/1683684345914195969

[stix40]

3 hours ago, bradiston said:

Defeatist nonsense.

Smug Mug !

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, anchadian said:

It's that clown again:

 

Palang Pracharath Party member Ruangkrai Leekitwattana has asked the Constitutional Court to review the Office of the Ombudsman's decision to forward a petition from the Move Forward Party to the court. The petition seeks the court's ruling on the rejection of Pita's renomination by 394 parliamentarians. Ruangkrai questions whether the Office of the Ombudsman is defying the power of the legislative branch or not. He asks the court to rule whether the office has a duty and jurisdiction to forward the case to the court or not.

 

https://twitter.com/ThaiEnquirer/status/1683684345914195969

The man is nothing but a serial filer of frivolous cases and claims and should be sued for any case rejected for defaming the individual in his false filing.