Opinion Editorial: No, It Isn’t Time to Worry About RETIREMENT VISA Changes….Yet

[david555]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yet 800K is not particularly low from a global perspective.

 

Citing a number of countries with retirement visas where the number is considerably lower (not an inclusive list of all such countries).

 

Cambodia

Philippines

Malaysia (Sarawak province only) (income method)

Portugal (first world country)

Ecuador

Colombia

Peru

Chile (first world country)

Nicaragua

Costa Rica

Panama 

Dominican Republic

Uruguay 

Argentina

Mauritius 

 

To add, the current average U.S. government retirement pension is 59K baht.

That is UNDER the current 65K income requirement here,

 

Raise from 800K?

 

Really?

Why? 

 

(Perhaps of academic interest -- the requirement for South Africa is slightly higher than Thailand and like Thailand allows a combination of income and banked money to qualify.)

only referring to the long time it is the same .......

following the logic that since first all prices or pensions went up , we all like our money to rise , but we dont like our expenses to rise ......

I am only referring to the logic 800K 10 years (ore more) ago was more worth  than now ....

 

I wish it stays the same , but expect different .....

[david555]

25 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

What does it matter how long 800k has been the required amout......800k is already a tidy sum of money....I sure dont see pension raising that much in the last 20 years or incomes unless maybe you work with computers...

 

800k should absolutly not be raised ...

i did not mentioned a certain sum ....., only that 800K a 10 years or more ago was more worth than present times ..... hence sooner or later this could logically reasonable ( hopefully )raised

 

I dont like rising prices neither ..... but look around what happens .......

 

Logically it can not stay forever the same level

[JensenZ]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

i did not mentioned a certain sum ....., only that 800K a 10 years or more ago was more worth than present times ..... hence sooner or later this could logically reasonable ( hopefully )raised

 

I dont like rising prices neither ..... but look around what happens .......

 

Logically it can not stay forever the same level

There's a nice calculator for this:

 

1,240,000 baht in 2023 is equivalent to 800,000 baht in 2003.

 

Inflation calculator

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by JensenZ

[david555]

9 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

There's a nice calculator for this:

 

1,240,000 baht in 2023 is worth 800,000 baht in 2003.

 

Inflation calculator

 

 

Thanks ....i keep it in mind to keep in account the augmentation for whenever ????

 

BTW i always considered that needed immigration money as  a emergency savings for a rainy day ????

Edited August 5, 2023 by david555

[soi3eddie]

I heard the statements and read the news. Just who does BJ want to keep out or make life more difficult/expensive for? Biker gang members, Chinese, Cheap Charlie farangs or the Immigration agents/officers. Time will tell I suppose. Time to drain the swamp.

 

[redwood1]

Thai Baht Inflation Calculator

 

https://www.creatifwerks.com/thai-baht-inflation-calculator/

 

฿ 400000.00 back in 1998 is worth Purchasing Power Value of ฿ 607203.90 in 2021

1998 I think was the year the O visa was raised to 400,000 Baht

In 2021 607,203 Baht would be needed to have the same purchashing power

 

Yes folks thats almost 200,000 short of 800,000

Edited August 5, 2023 by redwood1

[JensenZ]

26 minutes ago, david555 said:

Thanks ....i keep it in mind to keep in account the augmentation for whenever ????

 

BTW i always considered that needed immigration money as  a emergency savings for a rainy day ????

Emergency savings that depreciated by an average of 32,500 baht per year over the last 20 years. The last 10 years were less dramatic, at only about 10,000 baht per year depreciation (not including 2023 in calculation).

[david555]

5 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Emergency savings that depreciated by an average of 32,500 baht per year over the last 20 years. The last 10 years were less dramatic, at only about 10,000 baht per year depreciation (not including 2023 in calculation).

Farang Tax to stay in the " Land of Smiles " ????

[jerrymahoney]

8 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

Yes, that was introduced in about 2002 which meant those continuously on retirement extensions for about 6 years were grandfathered in at the old lump sum of 200k.  You have to keep on getting consecutive extensions to maintain it or you get bumped up to the 800k. 

I only posted that 200K option to show the word "consecutively" with the notion that any future grandfathering change might contain the same provision.

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, soalbundy said:

That would be superfluous for anyone who has been here 20 years, the Thai police would have to issue it.  

That might well be true... I am close to 20 years now but  my first years here were not actually on retirement extensions. I did multiple entry tourist, and multiple non-Imm Os. Things were pretty easy and casual back then. If things do change, I am hoping for a grandfathering option.... and not something more akin to a clear out!

[mokwit]

7 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Thailand has a record of 'clamping down', it lasts all of 3 days.

They said that about TM30 enforcement - has lasted a bit longer, as has 400k in the bank year 'round, others.

Edited August 5, 2023 by mokwit

[ThailandRyan]

23 hours ago, stoner said:

i'm sure agents will help with a criminal record check if you cant provide one. 

Ergo the problems will continue just like those who don't have the 800k in the bank to stay here but use an end around.

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, mokwit said:

They said that about TM30 enforcement - has lasted a bit longer, as has 400k in the bank year 'round, others.

Sure has, never knew what it was all about for my first decade here.... should be covered by the property owners, but now they found a way to blame the tourists and foreigners and hit them for random fines!

[mokwit]

10 hours ago, Joe Mama said:

Why are you picking on all of the 50 year old plus retiree's because of a couple of rogue motorcycle gangs?  I would guess that 99.9% of the retirement visa holders in Thailand have no affiliation or intentions of ever belonging to a criminal motorcycle gang enterprise!  That's a pretty weak excuse to punish  thousands of law abiding Thai Retirement Visa holders because of the actions of a handful of criminals!  Instead, how about implementing an outright ban on criminal motorcycle gangs within Thailand?  You seem to know who they all are already as many have been recently identified!

No country for old men. I will be leaving for healthcare reasons at some point. I am already feeling a sigh of relief that Thai Immigration changing the rules will not be something I have to worry about. The risk is being too old to start again somewhere but no longer eligible for new requirements. Thailand is NOT a retirement country. If it ever was it ceased to be when Hapkarn changed the financial requirements without grandfathering. AN's financial titans seemingly always left 800k to rot in a deposit account paying paltry interest, but retirement for most/many means reduced income and lack of financial flexibility.

 

I repeat Thailand is NOT a RETIREMENT destination. It is workable if you have somewhere you can go back to with nothing more than getting on a flight and turning the key in your front door back home.

 

Key takeaway: Stay in Thailand retired one year at a time but DON'T sell up/burn your bridges to back home.

 

All of you who think it will just be financial upping might be in for a shock - there might be some other requirement, such as that you are "educated" which in Thailand means Masters degree. Nobody of my generation bothered with that. An unlikely case I agree, but one of the new (albeit specialised) visas requires a Masters degree despite it not being the norm outside Thailand/years ago

 

Malaysia has explicitly stated that it only wants people who will make a meaningful contribution to Malaysia and if you look at the new BoI 5 year visa types, that is basically the criteria. 65k/month doesn't hack it for that test. Possibly it will only be these visas that are offered in future.

Edited August 6, 2023 by mokwit

[mania]

Quote

For now, however, breathe a bit…any changes are at least six months off and more likely a year

^^^ From that article linked in OP^^^

 

Not exactly reassuring is it?

 

This was always the problem with Thailand or any country that doesn't really allow a foreigner a sense of security .....which  our home country allows foreigners like my Thai wife.

 

My wife moved to the USA in 2007 got a two year temp residence visa/green card...after those two years she was granted a 10 year permanent green card.

 

Only one year into that 10 year visa she was allowed to apply for & granted full USA citizenship. She now has dual citizenship. Something I was never really able to qualify for in Thailand.

 

In Thailand same as some other places that sense of security will never be known. The goal post could be moved at any given moment. The fact that it has not moved in X amount of years is not really much of an assurance for those of us with homes or fair sized investment in Thailand

 

But it is what it is as they say.....TIT  ????

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by mania

[Henryford]

3 hours ago, david555 said:

Thanks ....i keep it in mind to keep in account the augmentation for whenever ????

 

BTW i always considered that needed immigration money as  a emergency savings for a rainy day ????

Except that when it rains you can't use the 800k, without losing your visa.

[mania]

8 hours ago, humbug said:

My take on this is that it was planned for years, but the virus suspended the plans, until now or the near future, even a new government won't be that new, and will be influenced from the old regime

I think you are correct because a year before Covid we were told by folks that work in low places that not only was there talk that the visa financial requirements would rise but Health Insurance to some degree would become mandatory as part of the process of extension but as you say Covid pretty much paused the world.

 

The health insurance was actually in motion or being talked about for some time now & actually started way back when a youtuber who was living in Chiang Rai had heart bypass surgery thru a big online go fund me campaign. That was almost unheard of back then & was kind of an eye opener for Thai's

 

It was as if up to that point they thought all foreigners in Thailand were flush with $$$

Right after that guy's go fund me & operation (he later died) suddenly there were articles about how the average Falang was living on sub 40k baht a month as if that was shocking to them

 

[david555]

18 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Except that when it rains you can't use the 800k, without losing your visa.

you are right for the continuing of the ret.ext. you mean ....,but for 5 month's you can use 400K....????

Hopefully the heavy rain problems could be repaired by time  ????

 

And when some is in real heavy <deleted> rain  you can still take the complete sum , it is still your own money they force us in a forced savings for that ,

when you have it on your Thai bank you have still a rescue ship to sail home country ....,???? not a burned one as some live sadly enough on here in LOS .....

 

Depends how you consider the 800/400 rule

Edited August 6, 2023 by david555

[jaideedave]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Except that when it rains you can't use the 800k, without losing your visa.

HF..very good point...many consider the 800k an emergency fund.However as you say, the moment they use it they've effectively nullified their visa.

They may find themselves ill,broke and in a country with only a 30 day permit to stay. yikes

[BE88]

9 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

That was my point, they were not clear about those of us on Non O visas since, forever! who have been in this country a long bloody time.

 

Do we now start all over again from scratch?

 

These are the dangers of some of the daft ideas suggested by some on here.

 

In another post on here I pointed out the problems from retirees and people married to Thais causing problems or making mischief would be minuscule to the RTP.

 

There is much more chance at those coming in on VOA who have decided not to return home then turn to crime here to support themselves living here.

 

In my Pattaya days I used to see a group of young Nigerians over towards the Dark side who had been there a couple of years, this was just one example of Pattaya.

 

They were far too young for retirement visas and they weren't on marriage visas and they were shooting pool every day, so they weren't working and no way were they on holiday that length of time.

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately in Thailand we are faced with increasingly evident racism so all farangs are dirty and criminals with some examples of criminals, we are all.

 

Nothing good can come out of the new law that affects us.

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by BE88

[scottiejohn]

7 minutes ago, BE88 said:

Nothing good can come out of the new law that affects us.

Which new law are you referring to?

[BE88]

7 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Which new law are you referring to?

The new law that in a few months your visa extension will be changed.

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by BE88

[redwood1]

I 

18 minutes ago, BE88 said:

Unfortunately in Thailand we are faced with increasingly evident racism so all farangs are dirty and criminals.

 

Nothing good can come out of the new law that affects us.

 

No problem.....You guys just need to learn to speak Chinese....

[SiSePuede419]

A woman truck driver was assassinated by gunfire at 6am on one of Nakhon Si Thammarat’s main roads recently.

 

Don't think that was done by a bad Farang from Pattaya.  They're too hung over at that hour. ????

[toho]

Deputy National Police Chief Pol Gen Surachate Hakparn stated that the gang members tend to favor Thailand due to the lack of strict law enforcement and corrupt officials.

 

So I would like to suggest him: start there and first clean up your own house.

And the agents who offer "special services", working together with Immigration officials.

 

At the same time you can do a background check on motorbike gang members.

Check your computer systems at Thai entrance ports if there is a hit between passport and (inter)national search warrants. 

 

I think that almost all retirees are law abiding persons, who just want to enjoy their retirement.

They do not ride noisy Harleys and dont show off their leather jackets.

They do not chainsaw persons and put them in plastic bags.

(by the way, RTP did a great job to find body and suspects so quickly). 

 

All foreign retirees spend money here. Many of them even support complete families, including father, mother, etc.  As a thanksgiving foreign retirees are subject to a dual pricing system; these unequal rights make us feel welcome and appreciated.

 

800.000 (400.00) THB in a Thai bank is a considerable amount and poses a risk when the bank account is in a country that has proven to be unstable for decades.

Thailand: don't push your luck, "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater".

[mokwit]

Due to the wording of the reporting perhaps, a lot of people are assuming it will be a financial increase , and likely it will if changes are made, BUT: IMO the point Hapkarn is actually making when he says it is too easy is that all you have to do to qualify is be 50+ and have 800k/65kmonth. I think what he is getting at is that there needs to be (in his view) further requirements to qualify than just those in order to keep the "bad" farangs out (and to hell with collateral damage to "good" farangs).

[BE88]

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

I 

No problem.....You guys just need to learn to speak Chinese....

...... and later a beautiful girl welcomes you at the airport with a gift without immigration control and you will get into the BMW that is waiting for you........but only if you speak Chinese.

[metisdead]

Some troll posts have been removed.

[soalbundy]

12 hours ago, humbug said:

My take on this is that it was planned for years, but the virus suspended the plans, until now or the near future, even a new government won't be that new, and will be influenced from the old regime

 

So changing the immigration act, will be for many reasons, not just the over 50 visa, but maybe how extensions are obtained, changing the laws around citizenship to push for more Chinese land and business owners, which would be maybe underneath all the recent 'special' agreements between Thailand and China, and increase requirements for everybody else to deter many more, and keep less of non-Chinese

 

who knows if it will all succeed, but they clearly have been planning, and big joke is just a mouthpiece, and you also never know, if this old regime will lose its way in the next 5-10 years, and the new fairer regime will become the new way of society, who might have much better ideas for immigration, it's a tough one to try and see too much into the future, but nothing wrong in trying to evaluate things 

 

But last weeks comments werent just for the audience of foreigners, it was probably telegraphing to embassies, that even if the excuse of biker gangs is fake and weak, it's still a good enough eccuse to use as a pretext to try and change many things regarding immigration, which would limit any strong reactions from embassies, and yes its clear many embassies don't give a damn, but this regime still will make sure they can deter any reactions

You are letting your imagination run away with you. The Chinese aren't any more important than any other nation except possibly as a flavour of the month. No country can plan years ahead, world politics are too volatile for that. Thailand is all about Thailand they are a pragmatic bunch (see Russia/Ukraine war), they always hedge their bets. I've never felt enmity towards falangs (here in Isaan) in fact just the opposite. A few years ago the wife and went to the IO very early, before they had opened and watched all the officers perform their flag saluting ceremony, the boss gave them a pep talk about being fair and friendly to their customers and to help the falang where they could.

[Olmate]

23 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

You are letting your imagination run away with you. The Chinese aren't any more important than any other nation except possibly as a flavour of the month. No country can plan years ahead, world politics are too volatile for that. Thailand is all about Thailand they are a pragmatic bunch (see Russia/Ukraine war), they always hedge their bets. I've never felt enmity towards falangs (here in Isaan) in fact just the opposite. A few years ago the wife and went to the IO very early, before they had opened and watched all the officers perform their flag saluting ceremony, the boss gave them a pep talk about being fair and friendly to their customers and to help the falang where they could.

 Years ago same pep talk I watched in Phuket, same day they sent me on my third trip home over some trivia. Since then agent every year, no pep talk required!!