Thai defense mechanism

[bradiston]

I pay for a service but the agent forgets an important item included and paid for. Immediate response is, you didn't pay for that and I'm shown at a distance some sort of receipt that I can't read. I check on my phone and sure enough, there's the payment in full I made.

 

Then of course I get the Thai tortoise syndrome. The whole office withdraws into an invisible shell. Looks in my direction like it's all my fault, why am I making trouble etc etc. We're not wrong. Not possible. You stupid foreigner etc etc. Eventually I figure out doing it myself is a far safer bet, so to my and their relief, I get the money back for the item they forgot and I, believe it or not, end up apologising for the trouble I've caused.

 

Odd, isn't it? How I feel guilty for spotting their mistake, or attempted scam, maybe. And hours later I'm still feeling bad about it. No apology from them. Just denial and blame shifting. The Thai way or the highway. Always was and always will be I guess.

[JeffersLos]

6 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Odd, isn't it?

You're odd. 

[2baht]

Seek counselling!

[bradiston]

5 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

You're odd. 

So how would you have dealt with it? Blame shifting and all?

[bradiston]

3 minutes ago, 2baht said:

Seek counselling!

Saving face 101?

[MisterTee]

You've come to roost in the wrong country.

Do everybody a favour and move on.

[Lacessit]

It's quite common for a Thai to refuse to admit to a mistake, as it causes loss of face, which is very important to them. It's also very common for a Thai to tell someone what he/she thinks that someone wants to hear. Bad news used to get the messenger beheaded in Thailand.

 

I go back to businesses that treat me well. If they don't, I don't.

 

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

Eventually I figure out doing it myself is a far safer bet,

Well done.

[FritsSikkink]

20 hours ago, bradiston said:

I pay for a service but the agent forgets an important item included and paid for. Immediate response is, you didn't pay for that and I'm shown at a distance some sort of receipt that I can't read. I check on my phone and sure enough, there's the payment in full I made.

 

Then of course I get the Thai tortoise syndrome. The whole office withdraws into an invisible shell. Looks in my direction like it's all my fault, why am I making trouble etc etc. We're not wrong. Not possible. You stupid foreigner etc etc. Eventually I figure out doing it myself is a far safer bet, so to my and their relief, I get the money back for the item they forgot and I, believe it or not, end up apologising for the trouble I've caused.

 

Odd, isn't it? How I feel guilty for spotting their mistake, or attempted scam, maybe. And hours later I'm still feeling bad about it. No apology from them. Just denial and blame shifting. The Thai way or the highway. Always was and always will be I guess.

I haven't got a clue what you where buying or thought you where buying and what was left out.

Why do you need an agent to buy something?

Haven't had your problems with the Thai way and do get what i want.

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

I haven't got a clue what you where buying or thought you where buying and what was left out.

Why do you need an agent to buy something?

Haven't had your problems with the Thai way and do get what i want.

Well said.

[foreverlomsak]

4 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Why do you need an agent to buy something?

Maybe it was an annual "Visa" extension and they forgot the stamp in his passport.

[bradiston]

8 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

Maybe it was an annual "Visa" extension and they forgot the stamp in his passport.

Correct. They forgot the multiple re-entry permit I paid for.

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

Correct. They forgot the multiple re-entry permit I paid for.

I went there and got my residence certificate for buying a scooter. The reentry permit system is down today so have to go back tomorrow.

[BangkokReady]

On 8/14/2023 at 12:22 PM, bradiston said:

Odd, isn't it? How I feel guilty for spotting their mistake, or attempted scam, maybe.

It is and it isn't.  When you're within a culture, you cannot help but be affected by its cultural norms.  Even with other Thais this attitude would be prevalent, add in the fact that it is a foreigner, and the sense of entitlement and "It's your fault because if you didn't come here it wouldn't have happened" comes into play.

 

We become socialised into it.  We have no choice to "accept" the treatment a lot of the time.  It then becomes the behaviour that we expect.  And, of course, we know we have little back-up or recourse should we be wronged.

[richard_smith237]

On 8/14/2023 at 12:29 PM, JeffersLos said:

You're odd. 

 

On 8/14/2023 at 1:46 PM, MisterTee said:

You've come to roost in the wrong country.

Do everybody a favour and move on.

 

On 8/14/2023 at 12:32 PM, 2baht said:

Seek counselling!

Quoted are some rather ‘fruitcake’ examples of people blaming someone who’s only error is to air their encounter… 

 

The ops encounter is extremely relatable and is readily understood by anyone with any exposure to the ‘way things work’ here. 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

On 8/15/2023 at 1:20 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

On 8/15/2023 at 9:23 AM, FritsSikkink said:

I haven't got a clue what you where buying or thought you where buying and what was left out.

Why do you need an agent to buy something?

Haven't had your problems with the Thai way and do get what i want.

Well said

Why ?…
 

The Op encountered an issue which was handled in a manner some (many) of us may find somewhat stereotypical of those who lack professionalism and you agree with the ‘it never happened to me mate, must be you’  response…

… not “well said” at all…. quite the opposite and rather myopic if we’re are to reflect on many examples of the ‘withdraw into the shell’ manner avoidance of responsibility & accountability we often encounter here in Thailand & as described by the Op. 

… that’s not to suggest Thailand is bad, Thai people are bad or any of the hyperbole some may wish to throw out there in some form of distorted defence… but things go wrong & the response here is often wholly juvenile. 
 

[JeffersLos]

23 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The ops encounter is extremely relatable and is readily understood

You're odd. 

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

You're odd. 

  I feared it. Now I know it. Knowledge is closure. 

[GammaGlobulin]

Maybe the OP is being gaslighted? 

 

 

[2baht]

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Why ?…
 

The Op encountered an issue which was handled in a manner some (many) of us may find somewhat stereotypical of those who lack professionalism and you agree with the ‘it never happened to me mate, must be you’  response…

… not “well said” at all…. quite the opposite and rather myopic if we’re are to reflect on many examples of the ‘withdraw into the shell’ manner avoidance of responsibility & accountability we often encounter here in Thailand & as described by the Op. 

… that’s not to suggest Thailand is bad, Thai people are bad or any of the hyperbole some may wish to throw out there in some form of distorted defence… but things go wrong & the response here is often wholly juvenile. 
 

Apology accepted! 

[FritsSikkink]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Why ?…
 

The Op encountered an issue which was handled in a manner some (many) of us may find somewhat stereotypical of those who lack professionalism and you agree with the ‘it never happened to me mate, must be you’  response…

… not “well said” at all…. quite the opposite and rather myopic if we’re are to reflect on many examples of the ‘withdraw into the shell’ manner avoidance of responsibility & accountability we often encounter here in Thailand & as described by the Op. 

… that’s not to suggest Thailand is bad, Thai people are bad or any of the hyperbole some may wish to throw out there in some form of distorted defence… but things go wrong & the response here is often wholly juvenile. 
 

Because you miss the complete point of my post. The original post on which I reacted had no clarity at all about what actually happened. It was very cryptic. 

Your reaction is only on the last line of my post but you ignore the rest.

[Liverpool Lou]

10 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

On 8/15/2023 at 1:20 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

On 8/15/2023 at 9:23 AM, FritsSikkink said:

I haven't got a clue what you where buying or thought you where buying and what was left out.

Why do you need an agent to buy something?

Haven't had your problems with the Thai way and do get what i want.

Well said

Why ?…

Because that's my 'kin opinion about his post and I'm not obliged to explain it to anyone else's long-winded demand.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[bradiston]

On 8/15/2023 at 9:23 AM, FritsSikkink said:

I haven't got a clue what you where buying or thought you where buying and what was left out.

Why do you need an agent to buy something?

Haven't had your problems with the Thai way and do get what i want.

Ever bought insurance? An air ticket? A property? Booked a hotel? Booking.com, Airbnb, Agoda? Their rates are often much better than walk in. Many purchases involve a 3rd party. Even online flight searches through eg Skyscanner end up with an agent, Trip, Expedia etc etc. I don't like using an agent as they will always take a percentage, but that's life as we know it. Or as I know it.

Edited August 17, 2023 by bradiston

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

Ever bought insurance? An air ticket? A property? Booked a hotel? Booking.com, Airbnb, Agoda? Their rates are often much better than walk in. Many purchases involve a 3rd party. Even online flight searches through eg Skyscanner end up with an agent, Trip, Expedia etc etc. I don't like using an agent as they will always take a percentage, but that's life as we know it. Or as I know it.

I buy insurance, tickets and property without a broker, can that perfectly myself. Hotels depends, when I know the place, I book directly , when I want to look for a hotel in a place I don't know I use Agoda as you can search with preferences.

[bradiston]

21 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

I buy insurance, tickets and property without a broker, can that perfectly myself. Hotels depends, when I know the place, I book directly , when I want to look for a hotel in a place I don't know I use Agoda as you can search with preferences.

So you rent and buy property without an agent? What, just go round knocking on doors? And you always buy, say, flight tickets from the airline website? And you ring round all insurance companies asking about their policies? They must love you.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

So you rent and buy property without an agent? What, just go round knocking on doors? And you always buy, say, flight tickets from the airline website? And you ring round all insurance companies asking about their policies? They must love you.

"So you rent and buy property without an agent? What, just go round knocking on doors?"

Yes, drive around on a bike in the area's that are interesting and collect phone numbers from signs. then give them a call.

"And you always buy, say, flight tickets from the airline website?"

Friends works at an airline.

"And you ring round all insurance companies asking about their policies?"

You can find the policies online.

 

I manage projects for a living, it is fairly easy for me to find out things and I speak Thai.

Edited August 17, 2023 by FritsSikkink

[Trippy]

Just point out the mistake, get it taken care of and move on. No big deal.

[bradiston]

28 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

"So you rent and buy property without an agent? What, just go round knocking on doors?"

Yes, drive around on a bike in the area's that are interesting and collect phone numbers from signs. then give them a call.

"And you always buy, say, flight tickets from the airline website?"

Friends works at an airline.

"And you ring round all insurance companies asking about their policies?"

You can find the policies online.

 

I manage projects for a living, it is fairly easy for me to find out things and I speak Thai.

Well, I don't have the time or inclination to go round collecting information from lampposts, most of which will be out of date in any case. What do you save doing this?

 

A I don't have a friend working for an airline.

 

And I don't get half the information I need reading insurance policies online. Much better to talk to a reliable, honest broker.

I'm currently buying a condo. It's cheap and cheerful and exactly what I need. And I'll concede the agencies were useless. Word of mouth, one to one, personal contact. Almost always the best way I've found. But my current condo was via an agent. The first he showed me.

 

But air tickets and hotels, online every time.

 

Everybody's mileage varies. You have a network of info you can tap into.

 

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. I fixed it myself.

Edited August 17, 2023 by bradiston

[bradiston]

14 minutes ago, Trippy said:

Just point out the mistake, get it taken care of and move on. No big deal.

Yeah, but they started down the *You only paid for this, not that." That's my point. No way could they say "omg, yes, sorry, our mistake, we'll fix it today." Service? You not like? Why you come Thailand?

[FritsSikkink]

45 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Well, I don't have the time or inclination to go round collecting information from lampposts, most of which will be out of date in any case. What do you save doing this?

 

Found myself a 2 story house in the middle of Bangkok, 160 SQM inside, 6 rooms, Garden and parking spot for 3 cars at 25 K a month.