Thai wife wants to buy land

[bignok]

8 minutes ago, Seamaster said:

A vessel of wisdom especially when it comes to females.

Yes I know lots more than you. 

[scorecard]

On 8/15/2023 at 3:04 PM, carlyai said:

Isaan lawyer online. I went thru them (before they were online). Because land anywhere can be tricky. 

Eventually at the land office they wrote something on the title deeds that it is my wife and mine until I die, something like that.

Perhaps you could check if the LTO people added something like a usufruct, which could possibly give you some rights over the property until you die. Deending on how much Thai language you speak / understand perhaps this was discussed in advance of the actual ownership transfer at the LTO without you realizing it.

 

If that's true it would mean you mst give written permission for the land to be sold (until you die).

 

But it wouldn't give you any independant right to sell the property. 

[Dogmatix]

The OP was asked to sign a standard form introduced by the Land Dept in 1992 to allow Thais with foreign spouses to buy land without hassle. The alternative would to have the LD do due diligence to ensure that the land is being purchased with the Thai spouse’s own money. 
 

It’s not perfect but a lot better than the system it replaced which was to give an absolute right to Thai males with foreign spouses to buy land and refuse to allow land transfers to Thai women, if they were aware they were married to a foreigner or even had a foreigner boyfriend. Thai women had complained that this was gender biased for decades.

 

The process works smoothly at the Land Office. They just take your signed form without comment. There is a case in the Supreme Court where a farang got divorced from his Thai wife and argued the couple’s house and land were paid for by him, producing evidence of bank transfers, and managed to get it added to the conjugal property and the sale proceeds divided in half, which is normal for any assets acquired after marriage. So this paper doesn’t necessarily mean the asset is wholly lost in the event of divorce.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Dogmatix

[Luuk Chaai]

4 hours ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Under Thai Law, you will sign a waiver for the land.

 

Having said that, under Thai law the following occurs:

 

She Dies - has you as the benefiter in the will :  you get the rights and have to transfer it within 1 yr (from you to a corp/thai), ok as long as the extended family don't contest as that will take it over a year and they get it.

 

You divorce - under Thai law you get 50% of all accumulated assets since marriage in the case of a divorce, as long as there isn't children. 

 

Pretty simple right. 

naaaaaaaa ! 

Is your name on the  Chanote ?  Have a Usufruct ?     you can stay in house and on the  land until you pass away

[recom273]

The guy has a house and land already, you don't have a usufruct on a piece of land, it's on the property.

 

His wife wants a bit of cash to buy some land, and wants to know about the piece of paper he's being asked to sign, he doesn't want your opinion. We all sign it, just sign it and forget it.

 

If I had the spare cash I would gladly give it to the missus to buy some land. The land we bought on which we are building our land has appreciated, when she has acted as an agent and found a buyer for someone else's land she has made decent money. 

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, recom273 said:

The guy has a house and land already, you don't have a usufruct on a piece of land, it's on the property.

It's on the Chanote / Land

[Scouse123]

Some of these guys have yet to realize that this is the Thai way of establishing a ' pension pot '  in case anything goes wrong with the marriage, which it usually does.

 

They are no fools when it comes to MONEY

[radiochaser]

On 8/15/2023 at 5:59 AM, KhunLA said:

As sungod stated, it's just a statement that it's hers, and you have no claim to it, and may even state all her money used to buy.  I forget the details of it, but done a few myself.

 

No big deal, and NO, you don't need a lawyer.

I signed a document that read like that, last year, before a condo sale was finalized a couple of months later.   I used the google language app camera function to read it.  The Thai woman who gave me the document to sign,  at the signing (my wife was in the U.S.), was insisting that I need to understand that I had no legal rights of ownership for the condo.   

When I asked why she was so insistent about my understanding the issue of no legal ownership rights of the condo, I was told the Thai government was concerned about foreign men buying residences for their wives, in their wives name, then being kicked out of them and sometimes left penniless.   

It was my wife's money that paid for it, she wanted the condo after the price dropped 49%, and she paid cash for it.   It is a two bedroom condo on the 26th floor on the corner of the building with two balconies, right next to the Chao Phraya River and has  magnificent night time views.   The grandkids and I like watching the barges and boats run up and down the river. 

My wife gets pissed off whenever I say, it's your condo and tells me it's our condo.   ???? 

 

[recom273]

17 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

It's on the Chanote / Land

Thanks, I thought it was on the property. My bad. I dont have one, never really thought I would need one.

 

But why is the poster receiving advice or mentions of a usufruct on land his wife wants to buy as an investment? The post still stands, the OP doesnt want peoples opinions, he wants info.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by recom273

[NORDO]

You are being setup.  She is doing this to build her wealth, not yours.

[Jenkins9039]

2 hours ago, Luuk Chaai said:

naaaaaaaa ! 

Is your name on the  Chanote ?  Have a Usufruct ?     you can stay in house and on the  land until you pass away

Completely untrue.

 

At her death, if she wills you the land, you have 1 yr to dispose of it. 

 

 

[CM Dad]

2 hours ago, radiochaser said:

I signed a document that read like that, last year, before a condo sale was finalized a couple of months later.   I used the google language app camera function to read it.  The Thai woman who gave me the document to sign,  at the signing (my wife was in the U.S.), was insisting that I need to understand that I had no legal rights of ownership for the condo.   

When I asked why she was so insistent about my understanding the issue of no legal ownership rights of the condo, I was told the Thai government was concerned about foreign men buying residences for their wives, in their wives name, then being kicked out of them and sometimes left penniless.   

It was my wife's money that paid for it, she wanted the condo after the price dropped 49%, and she paid cash for it.   It is a two bedroom condo on the 26th floor on the corner of the building with two balconies, right next to the Chao Phraya River and has  magnificent night time views.   The grandkids and I like watching the barges and boats run up and down the river. 

My wife gets pissed off whenever I say, it's your condo and tells me it's our condo.   ???? 

 

It sounds like you have a wonderful wife.  Not all Thai women are only after a man's money just like not all women in your home country are not only after a man's money.  There are good and bad women and men everywhere.  Men need to trust their own judgement regarding their wives.   If they don't plan to live on the land then I wouldn't buy it and I would never buy land for someone who was only my girlfriend.  My wife and I bought land and built a house on it, which we moved to, two years ago.  Everything was done in my wife's name and I had no problems with that as we have been together for almost three decades.  We are now in the process of transferring the land ownership deed - chanote - to our son who has just turned 18.  We had wanted to put the land in his name from the beginning but he needed to be 18 years old.  You only tend to hear horror stories on forums like this, but there are many more successful relationships than bad ones.

[natway09]

We have purchased 8 times over 18 years & sold 3 times.
Land office very helpful, very efficient title deed (chanote) changed, signed by the Super after land tax paid. It is painless.

For all you doubters out there the sales have shown an average of 16% per annum, 

firmly tucked away in MY bank account.

Important as working in 6 countries no pensions

 

[The Old Bull]

IF SHE IS BUYING FROM A FAMILY MEMBER IT WILL MOST PROBABLY BE AT AN INFLATED PRICE.

[radiochaser]

5 hours ago, CM Dad said:

It sounds like you have a wonderful wife.  Not all Thai women are only after a man's money just like not all women in your home country are not only after a man's money.  There are good and bad women and men everywhere.  Men need to trust their own judgement regarding their wives.   If they don't plan to live on the land then I wouldn't buy it and I would never buy land for someone who was only my girlfriend.  My wife and I bought land and built a house on it, which we moved to, two years ago.  Everything was done in my wife's name and I had no problems with that as we have been together for almost three decades.  We are now in the process of transferring the land ownership deed - chanote - to our son who has just turned 18.  We had wanted to put the land in his name from the beginning but he needed to be 18 years old.  You only tend to hear horror stories on forums like this, but there are many more successful relationships than bad ones.

Maybe a good wife. She told me she was going to leave after she gets her permanent green card here in the U.S. of A. 

30 years now that she got her permanent green card and now a U.S. of A. citizen and she ain't left yet.   Makes me think she was lying to me!  ????   

Wife has 10 rai outside of Bangkok that she got from her Mom.   Worth a lot of money from what I understand.   She leases it to a cousin who grows rice on it.   Wife borrowed $120,000.00 from me to open a restaurant here.  Was supposed to start paying it back 2 years later.   1.5 years later and she had paid me back for the loan.   

The cruel thing is, she and the daughter forced me to babysit the granddaughter 8 - 10 hours a day in the restaurant basement starting when the granddaughter was 8 months old.   The horror, the (cough cough) horror of babysitting a grand child!  ???? 

Wife sold the restaurant and along with her sister (just as good a woman as my wife) bought a take out restaurant in a historical building that has over 100 other businesses and it makes an ungodly amount of money!  My retirement money is close to 6 figures and she makes more than I do!   That's why she was able to buy the condo. 

Wife comes from a good family in Thailand that takes care of their own.   More honest too.   My sister borrowed money from me and I never saw a penny come back!

[Dogmatix]

7 hours ago, CM Dad said:

It sounds like you have a wonderful wife.  Not all Thai women are only after a man's money just like not all women in your home country are not only after a man's money.  There are good and bad women and men everywhere.  Men need to trust their own judgement regarding their wives.   If they don't plan to live on the land then I wouldn't buy it and I would never buy land for someone who was only my girlfriend.  My wife and I bought land and built a house on it, which we moved to, two years ago.  Everything was done in my wife's name and I had no problems with that as we have been together for almost three decades.  We are now in the process of transferring the land ownership deed - chanote - to our son who has just turned 18.  We had wanted to put the land in his name from the beginning but he needed to be 18 years old.  You only tend to hear horror stories on forums like this, but there are many more successful relationships than bad ones.

No need to be 18 to own land but minors under the age of 20 cannot apply for planning permission. They also  cannot sell without a court order from the family and juvenile court which is to check that they are not being diddled.

[Dogmatix]

9 hours ago, radiochaser said:

I signed a document that read like that, last year, before a condo sale was finalized a couple of months later.   I used the google language app camera function to read it.  The Thai woman who gave me the document to sign,  at the signing (my wife was in the U.S.), was insisting that I need to understand that I had no legal rights of ownership for the condo.   

When I asked why she was so insistent about my understanding the issue of no legal ownership rights of the condo, I was told the Thai government was concerned about foreign men buying residences for their wives, in their wives name, then being kicked out of them and sometimes left penniless.   

It was my wife's money that paid for it, she wanted the condo after the price dropped 49%, and she paid cash for it.   It is a two bedroom condo on the 26th floor on the corner of the building with two balconies, right next to the Chao Phraya River and has  magnificent night time views.   The grandkids and I like watching the barges and boats run up and down the river. 

My wife gets pissed off whenever I say, it's your condo and tells me it's our condo.   ???? 

 

This is very strange. There has definitely never been any concern expressed by the Thai government about foreign men buying residences in the Thai wife’s name and then being kicked out. That is obvious BS.

 

There is also no legal reason to sign anything giving up rights to a condo bought in a Thai wife’s name. The document referred to by the OP only applies to land, not freehold of leasehold condos . There is a foreign quota on condo developments of 49% of the usable space but Thais with foreign spouses are prohibited from buying into the Thai quota under the Condominium Act. Their units are counted as foreign owned. 
 

This sounds more like a private agreement that the condo was to be considered personal property and not part of the conjugal property in the event of divorce. But this type of agreement to disregard the provisions of the Civil and Commercial Code on conjugal property would be disregarded by a Thai court in the same way as they disregard pre-nuptial agreements that seem to have similar effects.

[Luuk Chaai]

8 hours ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Completely untrue.

 

At her death, if she wills you the land, you have 1 yr to dispose of it. 

 

 

u need a new lawyer and " better relations at the  land office "

Short version

The right of usufruct transfers possession, use, and enjoyment of immovable property from the owner to the usufructuary. Usufruct can only be registered over properly titled immovable property and is established by agreement with the owner and registration at the local land office.

Use of Usufructs

Although the law does not prevent Foreigners from being able to apply to register a usufruct on a land, however, this is still subject to the discretion of the Land Officer.

The person who enters into a contractual agreement with the owner for this right is called the "usufructuary". Section 1418 of the Civil and Commercial Code provides that a usufruct may be created for a period of time or for the life of the usufructuary. A usufruct will be registered in a similar manner to a lease of up to 30 years or until the lifetime of the usufructuary.

Once registered, it will have effects as a servitude on the title. The owner of the land cannot sell or transfer the land until the servitude has been terminated.   The usufruct terminates automatically upon the usufructuary’s death. However, the usufruct does not terminate upon the owner’s death. As such the usufruct may continue to survive even if the owner of the land has died.

 

[NorthernRyland]

16 hours ago, Jenkins9039 said:

She Dies - has you as the benefiter in the will :  you get the rights and have to transfer it within 1 yr (from you to a corp/thai), ok as long as the extended family don't contest as that will take it over a year and they get it.

 

People always say this but is there any evidence of it being true? Not only is it marital property but you were supposed to be given the right to sell. Simply allowing a family member to say "no" and running out the clock seems ridiculous, even for Thai standards.

[NorthernRyland]

11 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

There is a case in the Supreme Court where a farang got divorced from his Thai wife and argued the couple’s house and land were paid for by him, producing evidence of bank transfers, and managed to get it added to the conjugal property and the sale proceeds divided in half, which is normal for any assets acquired after marriage. So this paper doesn’t necessarily mean the asset is wholly lost in the event of divorce.

That had to go to supreme court? That should be normal operating procedure in marriage according to Thai law, unless foreigners are treated in a special category...

[Jenkins9039]

3 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

eople always say this but is there any evidence of it being true? Not only is it marital property but you were supposed to be given the right to sell. Simply allowing a family member to say "no" and running out the clock seems ridiculous, even for Thai standards.

Go and find some one that was unlucky enough to have their wife die before them and ask the process... i've outlined the process based on 13 yrs in Thailand and the discussions i've had with friends being here 20-30 yrs.

[NorthernRyland]

27 minutes ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Go and find some one that was unlucky enough to have their wife die before them and ask the process... i've outlined the process based on 13 yrs in Thailand and the discussions i've had with friends being here 20-30 yrs.

Those families must have been really nasty to contest a will and cause the owner to lose their property. Even so it's such an obvious and dumb tactic it's hard to believe a Thai court wouldn't toss that out.

[1FinickyOne]

13 hours ago, CM Dad said:

You only tend to hear horror stories on forums like this, but there are many more successful relationships than bad ones.

I also do not have problems buying land in my wife's name... no strings attached. Yes, I have to sign something at the land office saying I will not make a claim on the land - - and I have no problem with that either. 

 

I guess if you have problems with giving land as a gift to the family, then you shouldn't do it. And yes, I understand she can ask me to leave any time, which is fine too. But then again, maybe a wife might want to stay w/someone who is on her side and hopes she has a good secure enjoyable life. 

[paul1804]

20 hours ago, prakhonchai nick said:

35 years ago, a Thai wife married to a foreigner could not buy land in her name, and once married to a foreigner had to dispose of any land that she owned prior to marriage. That law changed at some later time.

 

The land that was bought where our house was built. was bought in her Father's name, and I was advised to act as mortgagor, details of which were written onto the title deeds (chanotes). When things went tits up some years later, she could not sell as it was not her land, and father could not sell without relinquishing the mortgage!????

 

Yes that is true but you cannot sell it without their approval so they wait until you die and it stays with the family. 

[pacovl46]

23 hours ago, Seamaster said:

Newsflash: deck always stacked against foreign men. It's obviously, blatantly in the favor of the Thai. That being said do you think this was a mistake on their part? If not do you think this will change anytime soon?

 

The law might go something like this. Any money that is brought entirely from abroad and invested in a personal and residential home can be held entirely by the purchaser. The other party can make no claim.

 

This would actually indirectly benefit Thai women because they get a cool house to live in or property and at the end of the day if there is a divorce it's very possible that it will be split or even given to her.

 

Well, the no contract between husband and wife law applies to Thais as well. The reason why foreigner can't buy land,

 

(actually they can, but it's only half a rai, if I remember correctly, and you have to invest money into a government fund for 5 years before you can buy the land and you will have to live in the property yourself and can't rent it out) 

 

is that all the coast lines would've been bought up already by foreigners and foreign hotel chains and they want to prevent that and I'm totally fine with that! 

[radiochaser]

15 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

This is very strange. There has definitely never been any concern expressed by the Thai government about foreign men buying residences in the Thai wife’s name and then being kicked out. That is obvious BS.

 

There is also no legal reason to sign anything giving up rights to a condo bought in a Thai wife’s name. The document referred to by the OP only applies to land, not freehold of leasehold condos . There is a foreign quota on condo developments of 49% of the usable space but Thais with foreign spouses are prohibited from buying into the Thai quota under the Condominium Act. Their units are counted as foreign owned. 
 

This sounds more like a private agreement that the condo was to be considered personal property and not part of the conjugal property in the event of divorce. But this type of agreement to disregard the provisions of the Civil and Commercial Code on conjugal property would be disregarded by a Thai court in the same way as they disregard pre-nuptial agreements that seem to have similar effects.

I can only tell what happened.   

[donx]

Because we never registered our US marriage in Thailand and because my wife's Thai ID lists her as single with it showing her maiden name, I never needed to sign anything or appear at the land office every time she purchased real estate in Thailand.

 

I assume those of you required to sign a document stating you lay no claim to the property either have your marriage registered in Thailand or your spouse has changed her last name on official Thai documents.

 

I found it interesting that even when I had to be present and sign my name when my daughters received their Thai IDs, the officials didn't have any issue with my wife keeping her marital status as single.

[bunnydrops]

On 8/16/2023 at 2:47 AM, pacovl46 said:

I'd ask a lawyer, if it is possible to set up a contract with your wife that says, if you get divorced the land has to be sold and the money given back to you without your wife getting any money from the sale. If that's possible and she signs it then go for it. Just to be on the safe side! 

I remember reading once where I guy sold his new Cadillac for $50 because in the divorce settlement it had to be sold and she get half the money.

[pacovl46]

4 hours ago, bunnydrops said:

I remember reading once where I guy sold his new Cadillac for $50 because in the divorce settlement it had to be sold and she get half the money.

That could backfire severely. I saw a court video once in which a woman took a much lower paid job than the one she had before so she would have to pay less child support. She even admitted in court taking that lower paid job for that very purpose. The judge wouldn't have it and sentenced her to pay the full amount based on her previous salary. 

 

Wouldn't be surprised, if the guy who sold the caddy for 50 bucks had to pay her the difference to half the car's actual market value. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by pacovl46

[thaibeachlovers]

Don't see why the OP is getting involved unless he wants to pay for HER land.

If she wants to loan money from the bank that's on her, but IMO the OP should not be involved in any way and certainly not as a guarantor of the money.

Everything is good till it's not.