30 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

One cannot claim the power is free (no cost) until the value of electricity produced exceeds the cost of solar equipment. 

The excess solar with used to charge the EVs, is just that, excess, and FREE of added cost, as didn't cost any extra to get or have, it's just there

 

Our solar system would have cost the same, whether we have EVs or not.  Since charging the EV didn't cost any additional money, NO money was spent to charge the EVs.

 

Now read that real slow again ... it might sink in.

 

Maybe this will help ... IF you went to the petrol station and AND you had access to 2 pumps, one charges you , and one is free, which one would you use ?

 

Would that be free ?

 

 

We have 2 cables in the carport, one is on the grid, and cost to use.

The other is on the solar system, and didn't cost extra to have or use, and when excess is available, we use it.  Sounds like free to me.

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Maybe this will help ... IF you went to the petrol station and AND you had access to 2 pumps, one charges you , and one is free, which one would you use ?

Your simple logic and example explains why you are having difficulty understanding. Maybe call a friend for guidance.

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

47 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

One cannot claim the power is free (no cost) until the value of electricity produced exceeds the cost of solar equipment. 

The excess solar with used to charge the EVs, is just that, excess, and FREE of added cost, as didn't cost any extra to get or have, it's just there

 

Our solar system would have cost the same, whether we have EVs or not.  Since charging the EV didn't cost any additional money, NO money was spent to charge the EVs.

That may vary from household to household.

 

Was your decision to have Solar panels installed influenced by your ownership of an E.V. ?

 

i.e. Did you have solar power before you purchased an E.V. ?

 

A friend of mine has just purchased an E.V.  he's now looking at getting solar power installed and also looking at a battery set up. It's going to cost a decent sum - thus, the power charging his car comes at a cost. 

 

I suspect some people are being very efficient with the truth when stating that their solar generated energy costs them nothing.

 

 

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

That may vary from household to household.

 

Was your decision to have Solar panels installed influenced by your ownership of an E.V. ?

 

... NO, we had actually just bought a new ICEV when house & solar was contracted to build/install.  (Posted this many times)  My ignorance and price of BEVs kept me from even consider buying one.  If knew we'd end up with a BEV, would have simply kept the old ICEV a bit longer, as was in excellent condition.  BEV wasn't even a consideration till govt incentive announced, and a year after we just bought the new ICEV.

 

i.e. Did you have solar power before you purchased an E.V. ?

 

... Yes

 

A friend of mine has just purchased and E.V.  he's now looking at getting solar power installed, and also looking at a battery set up. Its going to cost a decent sum - thus, the power charging his car comes at a cost. 

 

... possibly, but depends if the system needs to be larger to accommodate charging the EV.  Ours did not, although during rainy season, we need all they it will provide somedays, just for the house.  The EV (car) doesn't get charged then, waiting for excess, and it may even take 3 days to top it up, depend if just back from an O&A.  E-MB or e-bike fills in for transport then.

 

I suspect some people are being very efficient with the truth when stating that their solar generated energy costs them nothing.

 

22 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

Your simple logic and example explains why you are having difficulty understanding. Maybe call a friend for guidance.

I was thinking the same thing ... Your simple logic and example explains why you are having difficulty understanding. Maybe call a friend for guidance.

On 9/4/2023 at 3:07 PM, richard_smith237 said:

To be fair......    have we not also read of numerous reports of ICE vehicles in flames here in Thailand (and elsewhere)..... 

 

The reality is any vehicle presents an extremely minor risk of combustion when something goes wrong or it is involved in an accident etc...   

 

 

E.V's certainly do not have a monopoly on combustion - any implication otherwise is simply presenting false and bias information.

Absolutely correct. What is your regular 4-cylinder sedan engine other a metal box that safely contains 4000 small explosions per minute (and over 12000 per minute when overtaking)?

On 9/5/2023 at 10:26 AM, kennw said:

On 9/4/2023 at 3:36 PM, Andrew Dwyer said:

Initial thoughts are the fire started around the 12v battery area and the lfp battery was not affected but need to wait for a proper investigation before coming to any conclusion.

 

Interestingly, it was reported , and seen on the video, that a lot of time was lost trying to open the bonnet !!, the BYD Atto 3 has a strange system in that the internal bonnet release catch has to be pulled twice to enable release.

Same as BMW.. Pull twice, safety measure.

When white smoke is billowing from under the bonnet of your new EV, that's NOT the time to be looking for the Owner's Manual.

 

Sheesh...

9 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

When white smoke is billowing from under the bonnet of your new EV, that's NOT the time to be looking for the Owner's Manual.

 

Sheesh...

You could say that about any type of car.

2 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

One cannot claim the power is free (no cost) until the value of electricity produced exceeds the cost of solar equipment. 

a house solar installation is typically sized in such a way that on sunny days, there is an excess of electricity generated that

cannot be utilized by appliances or battery, etc. this surplus energy is usually wasted if it cannot be fed back into the grid. 

instead of wasting this this "excess electricity", it can be used for free to charge eg. an electric vehicle.

 

solar installations, as described above, do have this "excess electricity", whether they owner have an ev car or not.

referring to this "excess power" as a free byproduct of the solar installation is certainly accurate in this context,

the owner does not need invest anything extra to get this "excess electricity"!

 

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

solar installations, as described above, do have this "excess electricity", whether they owner have an ev car or not.

referring to this "excess power" as a free byproduct of the solar installation is certainly accurate in this context,

the owner does not need invest anything extra to get this "excess electricity"!

It is best to say surplus electricity which of course if consumed comes at a cost. 

9 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

It is best to say surplus electricity which of course if consumed comes at a cost. 

How can it have a cost if it’s surplus?

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

How can it have a cost if it’s surplus?

Because every unit of electricity consumed carries a cost until payback is achieved.

43 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

It is best to say surplus electricity which of course if consumed comes at a cost. 

Just in case you are not trolling???? lets try it this way.

 

I'm a baker, and I make 1 apple pie every day.

I need 5 apples for one pie.

 

I go to the market, and pay for 5 apples, as that all the money I have for apples.   The vendor gives me 8 apples, because I'm handsome.

 

I make my apple pie with the 5 apples I paid for.

I make apple juice with the other 3.

 

Did the apple juice cost me anything ?

 

I install solar to provide 30kWh a day

The house uses 30 kWh a day, every day.

I only get 30kWh a day on overcast rainy days.

I used 30kWh a day, every day. 

So the system has to provide a minimum of 30kWh a day.

The system cost this many $$$ to produce 30kWh a day on overcast, rainy days.  That's what the system must cost.

 

The sun comes out today, I get 50kWh today.

I use 30kWh for the house, and put the 20kWh in the EV.

 

Did the 20kWh cost me anything extra ?

 

edit: I just showed this to my 7 yr old niece, and she correctly answered NO to both questions.

22 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

Because every unit of electricity consumed carries a cost until payback is achieved.

I accept that is one way of looking at it.

 

I don't look at it that way because I put solar in for my house, then my EV arrived, I never sized my solar system for my EV.  I charge my EV on sunny days because it's using energy that would otherwise by lost because 1 or 2 of my 3 inverters would shut down.

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Just in case you are not trolling

???? lets try it this way.

 

I'm a baker, and I make 1 apple pie every day.

I need 5 apples for one pie.

 

I go to the market, and pay for 5 apples, as that all the money I have for apples.   The vendor gives me 8 apples, because I'm handsome.

 

I make my apple pie with the 5 apples I paid for.

I make apple juice with the other 3.

 

Did the apple juice cost me anything ?

 

I install solar to provide 30kWh a day

The house uses 30 kWh a day, every day.

I only get 30kWh a day on overcast rainy days.

I used 30kWh a day, every day. 

So the system has to provide a minimum of 30kWh a day.

The system cost this many $$$ to produce 30kWh a day on overcast, rainy days.  That's what the system must cost.

 

The sun comes out today, I get 50kWh today.

I use 30kWh for the house, and put the 20kWh in the EV.

 

Did the 20kWh cost me anything extra ?

 

edit: I just showed this to my 7 yr old niece, and she correctly answered NO to both questions.

Yes the 20kW did cost but payback will be achieved sooner if the 50kW sunny days continue and all is consumed.

 

Why did you not take my advice and ask a friend for help.
 

8 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I accept that is one way of looking at it.

If you want to be realistic it's the only way to look at it. There is no need to get complicated, all we need to do is log our consumption and use unit cost of electricity to estimate when we might be screaming from the tree tops ITS FREE.

15 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

If you want to be realistic it's the only way to look at it. There is no need to get complicated, all we need to do is log our consumption and use unit cost of electricity to estimate when we might be screaming from the tree tops ITS FREE.

I appreciate your opinion, but we will just have to agree to disagree

18 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

If you want to be realistic it's the only way to look at it. There is no need to get complicated, all we need to do is log our consumption and use unit cost of electricity to estimate when we might be screaming from the tree tops ITS FREE.

if you want to be realistic it's your way to look at it ...  other may see it differently ... as i do :-)

12 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

If you want to be realistic it's your only way to look at it ...  other may see it differently ... as i do :-)

You are quite welcome to present your view but be sure to exclude any ambiguous use of the word free. I guess I must accept people wishing to view their solar investment as they would a new washing machine. 

Simply mind boggling ... ????

 

"3 to 7 years

 

Binet's original scale of mental measurement had included two gradations of deficiency: the “idiot,” who had a mental age of 2 or younger, and the “imbecile,” who had a mental age of 3 to 7 years."

Source

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Just in case you are not trolling???? lets try it this way.

 

I'm a baker, and I make 1 apple pie every day.

I need 5 apples for one pie.

 

I go to the market, and pay for 5 apples, as that all the money I have for apples.   The vendor gives me 8 apples, because I'm handsome.

 

I make my apple pie with the 5 apples I paid for.

I make apple juice with the other 3.

 

Did the apple juice cost me anything ?

 

I install solar to provide 30kWh a day

The house uses 30 kWh a day, every day.

I only get 30kWh a day on overcast rainy days.

I used 30kWh a day, every day. 

So the system has to provide a minimum of 30kWh a day.

The system cost this many $$$ to produce 30kWh a day on overcast, rainy days.  That's what the system must cost.

 

The sun comes out today, I get 50kWh today.

I use 30kWh for the house, and put the 20kWh in the EV.

 

Did the 20kWh cost me anything extra ?

 

edit: I just showed this to my 7 yr old niece, and she correctly answered NO to both questions.

I like apple pies

 

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I'm a baker, and I make 1 apple pie every day.

I need 5 apples for one pie.

 

I go to the market, and pay for 5 apples, as that all the money I have for apples.   The vendor gives me 8 apples, because I'm handsome.

 

I make my apple pie with the 5 apples I paid for.

I make apple juice with the other 3.

 

Did the apple juice cost me anything ?

Sorry with all the excitement and little stories kicking around the thread I forgot to answer the first part. 

 

Apples from the market, a lucky day because we get 8 apples for the price of 5. We can of course say 3 apples were free but this is all about costing so lets cost our cooking session properly and not kid ourselves.

 

8 apples for 100B

Apples 12.5 each

Apple cost for pies 62.5

Apple cost for juice 37.5

 

And for those looking for a nice warm fuzzy feeling, the apple juice was free just like when some lucky guys charge EV's for free with surplus solar.
 

9 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

OK, lets assume the below average for each year.

2020: 3 million 

2021: 5 million

Covid will severely distort the milage number, so I only give them 3,000 km/vehicle/year.

The 86 reported fires ???? then give us:

5.7 EV fires/billion miles.

Spot on the same as the US numbers and 10 times lower then ICE.

 

Here we have 82 EV fires in 2020 and 146 (extrapolated) in 2021.

That gives us 15.2 EV fires/billion miles.

August looks like a bad month. EVs don't like hot weather, April 2024 should be interesting. 

 

https://cnevpost.com/2021/06/07/ev-fires-in-china-more-than-double-in-first-five-months-compared-to-same-period-last-year/

30 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

Sorry with all the excitement and little stories kicking around the thread I forgot to answer the first part. 

 

Apples from the market, a lucky day because we get 8 apples for the price of 5. We can of course say 3 apples were free but this is all about costing so lets cost our cooking session properly and not kid ourselves.

 

8 apples for 100B

Apples 12.5 each

Apple cost for pies 62.5

Apple cost for juice 37.5

 

And for those looking for a nice warm fuzzy feeling, the apple juice was free just like when some lucky guys charge EV's for free with surplus solar.
 

Here is another way to calculate it.

 

If the operating life of the solar system is 30 years, and ROI is in five years, then, across the 30 year operating life, the cost per kilowatt hour is one sixth of what it would normally be, so, in my case, it’s about 0.65 baht per kilowatt hour.

Not going to trawl through 12 pages of witless speculation and solar power codswallop but if anyone else has, have they confirmed that it was an issue with either the vehicle's charger interface, or the charger, or operator error and naff all to do with the EV's battery itself?

 

Asking for a (nervous BYD owner) friend.

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Not going to trawl through 12 pages of witless speculation and solar power codswallop but if anyone else has, have they confirmed that it was an issue with either the vehicle's charger interface, or the charger, or operator error and naff all to do with the EV's battery itself?

 

Asking for a (nervous BYD owner) friend.

10 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Here we have 82 EV fires in 2020 and 146 (extrapolated) in 2021.

That gives us 15.2 EV fires/billion miles.

August looks like a bad month. EVs don't like hot weather, April 2024 should be interesting. 

 

https://cnevpost.com/2021/06/07/ev-fires-in-china-more-than-double-in-first-five-months-compared-to-same-period-last-year/

I don't think it's valid to work on 3000km/year, it was actually nearer to 4 times that according to China Transport: Average Distance: Passenger | Economic Indicators | CEIC (ceicdata.com) Even at the height of Covid.

 

You need to divide your figures by 4.

52 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Excellent, thanks.

38 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I don't think it's valid to work on 3000km/year, it was actually nearer to 4 times that according to China Transport: Average Distance: Passenger | Economic Indicators | CEIC (ceicdata.com) Even at the height of Covid.

 

You need to divide your figures by 4.

To summarize, it's negligible.

 

My dad's Zephyr Mk V4 caught fire three times in one summer. Apart from learning how to rebuild a melted wiring loom, it seriously put an end to my childhood whim of growing up to be a fireman.

7 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Not going to trawl through 12 pages of witless speculation and solar power codswallop but if anyone else has, have they confirmed that it was an issue with either the vehicle's charger interface, or the charger, or operator error and naff all to do with the EV's battery itself?

 

Asking for a (nervous BYD owner) friend.

The 4th one - naff all to do with the EV main battery.

 

As per the Nation article below:

 

Quote

BYD Rever Thailand, the authorised distributor of BYD electric vehicles (EV) from China, said on Monday that a damaged wire connecting to the 12v battery caused a brand new ATTO 3 car to emit smoke while charging.

Smoke from brand new EV caused by a damaged wire

 

In retrospect, it was actually fairly clear from the initial reports of "smoke billowing from under the hood" and the firefighters having difficulty opening the hood to reach the source of the smoke, that the main EV battery was not the issue.

 

The picture below shows firefighters inspecting the smoke and heat-damaged engine compartment, while multiple other photos show the main body of the vehicle and the EV battery module area itself to be quite unaffected.