Outrage over Abbas's antisemitic speech on Jews and Holocaust

[MrMojoRisin]

19 minutes ago, bignok said:

You are obviously clueless. Jews have 1 tiny nation. Muslims many yet you want to steal their 1 nation. Wake up to yourself.

Yes, of the two of us, it is I that am completely clueless. 
 

I certainly cannot find fault in your perfectly logical reasoning for justifying Israel’s occupation of Palestinian land.

 

Consider me awakened.

 

 

 

 

[bignok]

On 9/9/2023 at 1:45 AM, Nick Carter icp said:

Any Native American Indians  , Maori or Aborigines like to comment ?

  At least Israeli Jews have some claim to the land , as it was theirs 3000 years ago 

Lefties dont care about facts.

[SpaceKadet]

40 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

You are missing the part where 2/3rds of the U.N member nations voted for the creation of a Jewish state and a Palestinian state on the land .

   Jews accepted the offer of statehood and the Palestinians  rejected the offer of statehood and that why there is no Country called Palestine, because they rejected the offer 

I was brief in my history lesson. There're more detailed accounts of the post war events in the Middle East available for those who are interested.

 

This is a map of the Palestine partitioning from 1947. As a Palestinian, would you really accept that?

Interestingly, it was created by the Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question. Where there any Palestinians present on the Committee? And we all know that there is very little of that "Arab State" land left.

[Yellowtail]

I think had Haj Amin al-Husseini not conspired with the nazis during WW2, Palestine may have gotten a better deal after the war.

[Jingthing]

48 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

I was brief in my history lesson. There're more detailed accounts of the post war events in the Middle East available for those who are interested.

 

This is a map of the Palestine partitioning from 1947. As a Palestinian, would you really accept that?

Interestingly, it was created by the Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question. Where there any Palestinians present on the Committee? And we all know that there is very little of that "Arab State" land left.

The Arab world attacked as soon as the UN charter had passed.  Had they not Israel might still be relatively tiny.  Its still tiny compared to most countries. The Arabs weren't wrong to think they could crush Israel but alas Israel prevailed against all odds.

The Arabs starting out so hostile set the stage for what followed to this day  Things could have been much different indeed peaceful. I'm not saying only blame the Arab world. I am saying don't only blame Israel. Developing as a hard core military power was their only option to survive in that region. 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think had Haj Amin al-Husseini not conspired with the nazis during WW2, Palestine may have gotten a better deal after the war.

It didn't help that's for sure. He got Hitler to promise to exterminate.all the Jews in the middle east.

I have an impression most Israel demonizers don't wish to know that history. They also don't want to hear about the Jewish Nakba in the greater Arab world. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Jingthing

[SpaceKadet]

And imagine that Arabs and Jews were living quite peacefully in that area for centuries. And then the Crusaders came and screw it all up. All because some stupid religion.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

And imagine that Arabs and Jews were living quite peacefully in that area for centuries. And then the Crusaders came and screw it all up. All because some stupid religion.

It was the Romans who caused much of the problems .

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

And imagine that Arabs and Jews were living quite peacefully in that area for centuries. And then the Crusaders came and screw it all up. All because some stupid religion.

Islam is not stupid

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

It was the Romans who caused much of the problems .

It does go back a ways.

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

17 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

And imagine that Arabs and Jews were living quite peacefully in that area for centuries. 

Then Mohammed came along and formed a new Religion and built a Temple right on top of the Jews Temple and it all kicked off after that 

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Then Mohammed came along and formed a new Religion and built a Temple right on top of the Jews Temple and it all kicked off after that 

An interesting history but overall the political ideology of Zionism made sense. There should be one majority Jewish nation state where Jews are not the minority compared to Christians or Muslims.  The Spanish Inquisition wasn't carried out by Muslims.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule

Edited September 17, 2023 by Jingthing

[SpaceKadet]

26 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Islam is not stupid

I was thinking all religions....

[SpaceKadet]

23 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Then Mohammed came along and formed a new Religion and built a Temple right on top of the Jews Temple and it all kicked off after that 

I suppose not much changes over the years. Apparently, Taj Mahal (Islamic tomb, for the lack of better denomination), is build on top of an ancient Hindu temple, or so the Hindus say.

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

I was thinking all religions....

Sure you were

[Nick Carter icp]

10 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

I suppose not much changes over the years. Apparently, Taj Mahal (Islamic tomb, for the lack of better denomination), is build on top of an ancient Hindu temple, or so the Hindus say.

Don't tell me that the Hindus have got their own Western Wall !!!!!!!!

[SpaceKadet]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Don't tell me that the Hindus have got their own Western Wall !!!!!!!!

I wouldn't know, I'm not a Hindu. Some Hindu friends were telling me this story, and were convinced that it was true.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, SpaceKadet said:

I suppose not much changes over the years. Apparently, Taj Mahal (Islamic tomb, for the lack of better denomination), is build on top of an ancient Hindu temple, or so the Hindus say.

Such things happen. 

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

12 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

Nothing has done more harm to Jews since the end of WW2 than the free pass that has been given to them because of holocaust guilt.

 

Is there any reason why you will not answer my question ?

I have asked you numerous times to state what are the free passes that Jews have got since WW 2 ?

   Do they get free travel cards or something ?

 My friend is a Jew who naturally loves free things and I want to get him that free pass that you/I/we keep going on about 

   A free pass for what ?

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, bignok said:

Lefties dont care about facts.

This is bizarre coming from someone who so rarely supplies them. 

[MrMojoRisin]

41 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Is there any reason why you will not answer my question ?

I have asked you numerous times to state what are the free passes that Jews have got since WW 2 ?

   Do they get free travel cards or something ?

 My friend is a Jew who naturally loves free things and I want to get him that free pass that you/I/we keep going on about 

   A free pass for what ?

https://jacobin.com/2023/08/israel-palestine-occupation-wall-censorship-uk-academia-antisemitism

[placeholder]

34 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Is there any reason why you will not answer my question ?

I have asked you numerous times to state what are the free passes that Jews have got since WW 2 ?

   Do they get free travel cards or something ?

 My friend is a Jew who naturally loves free things and I want to get him that free pass that you/I/we keep going on about 

   A free pass for what ?

A free pass for their very bad treatment of the Palestinians.

Israeli historians have given the lie to the claim that Israel did not engage in the mass expulsions of Palestinians during the 47-48 war. 

 

Burying the Nakba: How Israel Systematically Hides Evidence of 1948 Expulsion of Arabs

Since early last decade, Defense Ministry teams have scoured local archives and removed troves of historic documents to conceal proof of the Nakba

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-07-05/ty-article-magazine/.premium/how-israel-systematically-hides-evidence-of-1948-expulsion-of-arabs/0000017f-f303-d487-abff-f3ff69de0000

Then they did not allow them to return.

 

Israel’s refusal to grant Palestinian refugees right to return has fuelled seven decades of suffering

There are currently more than 5.2 million registered Palestinian refugees. The vast majority live in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT). Israel has failed to recognize their right under international law to return to homes where they or their families once lived in Israel or the OPT. At the same, they have never received compensation for the loss of their land and property.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2019/05/israels-refusal-to-grant-palestinian-refugees-right-to-return-has-fuelled-seven-decades-of-suffering/#:~:text=Israel's failure to respect the,71 years since the Nakba 

 

ISRAEL’S OCCUPATION: 50 YEARS OF DISPOSSESSION

For half a century, Israel’s occupation of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip has resulted in systematic human rights violations against Palestinians living there.

Since the occupation first began in June 1967, Israel’s ruthless policies of land confiscation, illegal settlement and dispossession, coupled with rampant discrimination, have inflicted immense suffering on Palestinians, depriving them of their basic rights.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/

 

These are clear violations of international law.

[Nick Carter icp]

5 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

https://jacobin.com/2023/08/israel-palestine-occupation-wall-censorship-uk-academia-antisemitism

You can do better than that .

Just posting a random link without saying anything yourself. 

You do seem to have a habit of repeating what other people say without commenting yourself 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

A free pass for their very bad treatment of the Palestinians.

Israeli historians have given the lie to the claim that Israel did not engage in the mass expulsions of Palestinians during the 47-48 war. 

 

There are numerous groups of people the World  who get treated way worse than the Palestinians .

   Jews have faced persecution in  numerous Countries , there is nothing special about Israels treatment of Palestinian's , others get treated much worse .

  Israeli historians can make any claim they like and others can also make any claim they like .

   Its not just Jews who get a free pass to make claims about history , that free pass is available to one and all 

[MrMojoRisin]

7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

You can do better than that .

Just posting a random link without saying anything yourself. 

You do seem to have a habit of repeating what other people say without commenting yourself 

 

You have a habit of not reading the information provided in links.

 

I personally would rather that those I engage with on this forum are providing links to subject matter experts, whatever the topic may be, than simply providing their own often uninformed, bigoted and prejudicial musings.

 

Summers uses the ‘anti-semitic’ charge to quell public criticism of Israel, even as he explicitly distances himself from the overt operations of censorship. He writes, for instance, that ‘the only antidote to dangerous ideas is strong alternatives vigorously advocated.’ But how does one vigorously advocate the idea that the Israeli occupation is brutal and wrong, and Palestinian self-determination a necessary good, if the voicing of those views calls down the charge of anti-semitism?

 

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v25/n16/judith-butler/no-it-s-not-anti-semitic

 

You will learn nothing of value, which is the purpose of discourse, operating at the base level that you currently are.

[MrMojoRisin]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

There are numerous groups of people the World  who get treated way worse than the Palestinians .

   Jews have faced persecution in  numerous Countries , there is nothing special about Israels treatment of Palestinian's , others get treated much worse .

  Israeli historians can make any claim they like and others can also make any claim they like .

   Its not just Jews who get a free pass to make claims about history , that free pass is available to one and all 

Whataboutism - more base level nonsense.

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, MrMojoRisin said:

You have a habit of not reading the information provided in links.

 

I personally would rather that those I engage with on this forum are providing links to subject matter experts, whatever the topic may be, than simply providing their own often uninformed, bigoted and prejudicial musings.

 

Summers uses the ‘anti-semitic’ charge to quell public criticism of Israel, even as he explicitly distances himself from the overt operations of censorship. He writes, for instance, that ‘the only antidote to dangerous ideas is strong alternatives vigorously advocated.’ But how does one vigorously advocate the idea that the Israeli occupation is brutal and wrong, and Palestinian self-determination a necessary good, if the voicing of those views calls down the charge of anti-semitism?

 

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v25/n16/judith-butler/no-it-s-not-anti-semitic

 

You will learn nothing of value, which is the purpose of discourse, operating at the base level that you currently are.

I want to hear what you have to say , rather than you just firing links at me and just telling me to read what others have said 

   You made a claim and I asked you to back that claim up 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Whataboutism - more base level nonsense.

Not at all 

I was pointing out that your accusation that Jews have got a free pass to oppress Palestinians is incorrect , because its quite common the World over for one group to oppress others, which means Jews haven't been given a free pass to do it 

[MrMojoRisin]

26 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I want to hear what you have to say , rather than you just firing links at me and just telling me to read what others have said 

   You made a claim and I asked you to back that claim up 

Here, for the second time, is a link to a very very thorough analysis of the question at hand.... it is far more substantive and informed than anything I, a lay person, could provide on the question at hand.

 

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v25/n16/judith-butler/no-it-s-not-anti-semitic

 

If you truly care for an answer, then you will read the essay that the link leads to, ruminate on the contained details and information and then, if not yet convinced, pose interesting and inquisitive questions to elicit further details and information or expose errors, weaknesses and flaws in the case being argued.

 

If, on the other hand, your interest lies solely in reaching for an opportunity to misinterpret, misconstrue or explicitly falsify my words in order to spring from the bushes and gleefully shout "gotcha" and "anti semite" then you are wasting your own time as you will learn nothing and will continue to move further from the truth and reality.

Edited September 17, 2023 by MrMojoRisin

[MrMojoRisin]

13 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Not at all 

I was pointing out that your accusation that Jews have got a free pass to oppress Palestinians is incorrect , because its quite common the World over for one group to oppress others, which means Jews haven't been given a free pass to do it 

Tut tut, you are conflating Jews and Israel.

 

Give an example of another group of oppressors that are able to respond to any and all claims against their crimes with a "get out of jail free" card (i.e. accusations of anti semitism).