Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[Felt 35]

Anyone who know if the new tax regulations also will include inheritance from a Foreigner to Thai spouse and how shall it eventually be controlled if its savings and a gift / inheritance? ????

Felt 

[redwood1]

3 minutes ago, Felt 35 said:

Anyone who know if the new tax regulations also will include inheritance from a Foreigner to Thai spouse and how shall it eventually be controlled if its savings and a gift / inheritance? ????

Felt 

It took them about 6-7 years to get the online 90 day reporting to finally work most of the time....

Check back in 60-70 years and they might have all the vast number of tax possibilities figured out in highly complex and very complicated subject.. 

[beammeup]

11 minutes ago, Felt 35 said:

Anyone who know if the new tax regulations also will include inheritance from a Foreigner to Thai spouse and how shall it eventually be controlled if its savings and a gift / inheritance? ????

Felt 

I think I read gifts are tax free up to 20 million baht or something like that

[Aldo123]

1 hour ago, Robin said:

Taxing income from overseas, or capital transfers?  How is hat going to be sorted out?  

Say i put all my income into offshore bank account and transfer money from that once a year.  if income is taxed at source, do I pay tax again?

If money in overseas account is not income but capital, do I still pay tax?

Tax resident?  Say I spend 175 days a year in Thailand.  Not a tax resident?

175 days(nights) in UK; not a tax resident?

15 days holiday in Singapore/ Malaysia/ Vietnam?  Not a tax resident there?   

 

That's my take on it. But wouldn't that be more expensive in the long run?

[BE88]

3 hours ago, jonny on the spot said:

You know another thing that i never understand, for years.

They have a HUGE untapped source of revenue here in the idiots that drive. Make the police actually do what police are paid for.

When they see someone driving like a <deleted>, stop them fine them.

No helmet good fine.

They already pay the police a salary if you can call it that, make them earn it.

And would you like to change Thailand?

You know yourself is Mission Impossible.

 

[Felt 35]

Just now, beammeup said:

I think I read gifts are tax free up to 20 million baht or something like that

Well I don't know but if inheritance or gifts to spouses not are taxable in peoples home country shall they add that  on income (pension) to Thailand and tell Rd that I gave my spouse 500K last year but that was savings or was it a gift, or inheritance, or interest or was it saved pension income??????

Felt

[BE88]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

But how long do you stay out of the country between visits? 

 

It's the total number of days in any 1 Calendar/Tax Year so if you did...

• 90 days in Thailand,
• 90 days out
• 90 Days in Thailand
• 90 days out
• 5 days (remainder of the year) in Thailand 

 

... You're Tax Resident. 

 

 

No, he left to travel around the world.

[beammeup]

The way I see it is, all tax residents will have to do a tax return. Declare all what you have remitted into Thailand and pay appropriate taxes on that amount. If It has already been taxed ie: pensions etc... declare that and don't pay the tax in Thailand. If you get audited you may have to provide details which could get problematic and complicated. There are still many many questions. But I guess it will be something like that. I also think it will not happen in Jan 2024. They would need to hire a huge amount of tax officials to deal with it

[RafPinto]

What's about the ones who apply beginning 2024 for a retirement visa and send 800k over and then whatever he needs to live here on a monthly basis.
Will those 800k be taxed straight away?

Interesting times ahead.

[transam]

1 minute ago, RafPinto said:

What's about the ones who apply beginning 2024 for a retirement visa and send 800k over and then whatever he needs to live here on a monthly basis.
Will those 800k be taxed straight away?

Interesting times ahead.

Especially the UK chaps who "don't" live here, but on a Thai retirement visa...????

[Dave0206]

Forgive me I have not read 43 pages of our esteemed members so I may be repeating someone's post.

I think if thai government wants to collect tax every single person in any government job civil service police army ect fill in form with assets and 5 years or 20 years down the line when this person has plenty oh yes you paid tax on all your accumulated wealth so nothing dodgy here unless a good friend lent you some watches then died surely even inheritance should be taxed

[tomkenet]

Your bank in your home country will demand to know where you are tax resident. If you still have an address in your home country you will be treated as a tax resident in your home country. If you have changed your address to abroad they will ask you where you are tax resident. You will probably have to prove it with documents or TIN number.

[StayinThailand2much]

45 minutes ago, beammeup said:

The way I see it is, all tax residents will have to do a tax return. Declare all what you have remitted into Thailand and pay appropriate taxes on that amount.

I brought in cash, and withdrew from ATMs. Most of the ATM slips' ink is faded by now. Mission Impossible...

[StayinThailand2much]

37 minutes ago, RafPinto said:

What's about the ones who apply beginning 2024 for a retirement visa and send 800k over and then whatever he needs to live here on a monthly basis.
Will those 800k be taxed straight away?

Interesting times ahead.

No kidding. I can't wait reading the reports here in January and February...

Edited September 24, 2023 by StayinThailand2much

[transam]

1 minute ago, StayinThailand2much said:

I brought in cash, and withdrew from ATMs. Most of the ATM slips' ink is faded by now. Mission Impossible...

Then you maybe the type they have a closer look at if on long stay...........

[transam]

Just now, StayinThailand2much said:

No kidding. I can't wait reading the reports here in January and February...

That won't happen, but in the future, you maybe in the cross-hairs...????

And be careful what you say here......????

[StayinThailand2much]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Then you maybe the type they have a closer look at if on long stay...........

Possible. And I will look for greener pastures, just in case... (It's a big world out there.)

[hotandsticky]

3 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

No kidding. I can't wait reading the reports here in January and February...

Don't hold your breath.

[TorquayFan]

Sorry if I've missed this point, but I haven't read all 43 pages.

 

Does anyone know the % rate of tax that might be applied.

 

0% would be great ????

 

2% tolerable, 5% hurts and 20% maybe time to go home !

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, Aldo123 said:

This is what I was wondering (about dual-tax treaties). For example, if you have savings income or an occupational pension income that is not sourced in either Thailand or your home country, but from a third-country, and you aren't paying any tax in your home country, can you just "refer" to the dual-taxation treaty with your home country? Or will they (Thai Revenue Dept) demand to see a tax return from your home country before letting you off the hook for Thai income tax? Aside from the US, most Western countries base their tax demands only on their nationals if they are 'residents' there. So many unknowns. But pity the farang pensioner here that is about to lose 15-25% of his small pension income. If he's living too close to the bone, he may need to leave. And if his only home was here (maybe bought a condo) then he's truly f'd? 

Problem comes in when Thailand is unable to discriminate between incoming deposits, so simply taxes everything leaving the poor sucker to apply for a Thai tax refund or in the case of the US, foreign tax credit.

 

The expat scraping by on sociable security or small pension of $2000-3000 per month will be filing a US tax return, but paying little or no tax.

 

Unsure what Thai tax authority will require in terms of proof of tax paid, if no tax was paid.  Expat won't have much luck in the US, as he likely won't have enough tax incurred to apply the foreign tax credit.

 

 

[jaideedave]

5 hours ago, jonny on the spot said:

You know another thing that i never understand, for years.

They have a HUGE untapped source of revenue here in the idiots that drive. Make the police actually do what police are paid for.

When they see someone driving like a <deleted>, stop them fine them.

No helmet good fine.

They already pay the police a salary if you can call it that, make them earn it.

Great idea.Implementing it could be an issue.The corruption is so deep that none of the fine income would even get close to the Revenue Department accounts.

[GeorgeCross]

7 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

This might sound like a stupid thought/question, but since this new tax rule comes into effect 1st January, 2024 (only three months from now) could it be possible that they will demand tax returns from all of us already in 2024 and consequently that we have to pay tax under the new rules for all income for the year we are in: 2023?

possible, and the #1 reason i've pulled future projects. until i know for what and for how much i'll be taxed, i'm keeping it all offshore where its safe and snug and will sell assets here to fund my continued (now temporary) stay. 

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, tomkenet said:

Your bank in your home country will demand to know where you are tax resident. If you still have an address in your home country you will be treated as a tax resident in your home country. If you have changed your address to abroad they will ask you where you are tax resident. You will probably have to prove it with documents or TIN number.

theres generally an extra box you can tick that states something like: "a tax number is not required in my country"

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, Felt 35 said:

Anyone who know if the new tax regulations also will include inheritance from a Foreigner to Thai spouse

Do a Google on "thai inheritance tax." It doesn't kick in until 100million baht ($3M US dollars). Plus, no tax if inheritance is between spouses.

 

It would be ludicrous if the Thais treated all cash flow into Thailand as "income." Now, as others have discussed, they may put the burden of proof on you, to parse out what is and what isn't "income" (and if income, what part, or maybe all, was taxed by your tax treaty home country). I would think a cash flow of estate proceeds, coming to Thailand as inheritance, could be parsed out as such.

 

 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, TorquayFan said:

Does anyone know the % rate of tax that might be applied.

0% would be great ????

2% tolerable, 5% hurts and 20% maybe time to go home !

Using the 60k deduction, and two 30k allowances (me and wife), here's what I came up with:

-- Effective tax rate of 4.9% for $15,000

-- Effective tax rate of 8.7% for $30,000

-- Effective tax rate of 18.3% for $60,000

-- Effective tax rate of 21.2% for $80,000

 

Now, for Americans, you already pay Uncle Sam taxes on this income, even if the Thai-US tax treaty says Thailand has primary taxing authority. This is because of the so called "saving clause," which says the US can tax everything regardless of what's in the treaty -- but will give you a tax credit to avoid double taxation, assuming Thailand uses their option to tax (which, historically, they haven't -- but maybe under this new scheme, they'll finally start collecting taxes that the treaty says they're entitled to).

 

So, for Americans, if you're sending your IRA or private pension payouts to Thailand, you might see a Thai tax hit in your future. However, you'll get a tax credit -- within your tax bracket -- against your US taxes to avoid double taxation. [A YouTube video in earlier pages on this thread indicated the treaty gave Thailand an exception to the saving clause, meaning your IRA wasn't taxable on your US tax return. This is bunk, as it would mean Thailand is the only country in the world where you, as an expat, could live and NOT have to pay US taxes on your IRA distribution. Sound unreal? Yep. Anyway, he's been successful so far, as no one in the know at IRS has taken the time to analyze this. So, if you want to save on US taxes, look up Thomas Carden.]

 

But, yeah, for non-Americans -- if you've had a nice tax free ride living here in Thailand, maybe that's going to end.

 

But if you're at, or approaching the $80,000 category (i.e, Thai taxes at the 21.2% rate) -- go get the LTR Wealthy Pensioner visa. This will protect your foreign income from Thai taxes, confirmed by the latest reports.

[Puccini]

52 minutes ago, JimGant said:

...I would think a cash flow of estate proceeds, coming to Thailand as inheritance, could be parsed out as such.

You can find out from the double taxation agreement between Thailand and your country. 

[OJAS]

20 hours ago, OJAS said:

But good luck to the RD if they really seriously believe that they will be able to raise significant amounts to swell Thai exchequer coffers through taxation on our perpetually frozen State Pensions!

I have just conducted a rough and ready calculation of the tax which would, in theory, be due to the RD in respect of my UK State Pension which has been frozen ever since I claimed it in 2015. This reveals that I would be capable of swelling their coffers by a truly magnificent 7,000 THB or thereabouts per annum!

 

I believe that the words sledgehammer, nut and crack would spring to mind, therefore, in the event of the RD still deciding to go after me and fellow UK State Pensioners with zeal and gusto for what will turn out in practice to be paltry tax payments. But this being Thailand, of course..................

 

[TorquayFan]

Thanks for the effort Jim - I hope it turns out a LOT more simple than that. ATB

[John Drake]

3 minutes ago, OJAS said:

I have just conducted a rough and ready calculation of the tax which would, in theory, be due to the RD in respect of my UK State Pension which has been frozen ever since I claimed it in 2015. This reveals that I would be capable of swelling their coffers by a truly magnificent 7,000 THB or thereabouts per annum!

 

I believe that the words sledgehammer, nut and crack would spring to mind, therefore, in the event of the RD still deciding to go after me and fellow UK State Pensioners with zeal and gusto for what will turn out in practice to be paltry tax payments. But this being Thailand, of course..................

 

I think this tax "reform" will be reversed. Look how much of what Srettha promised and said has been reversed. Even this morning he denied the Thaksin as advisor proposal. 

[Yumthai]

48 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Using the 60k deduction, and two 30k allowances (me and wife), here's what I came up with:

-- Effective tax rate of 4.9% for $15,000

-- Effective tax rate of 8.7% for $30,000

-- Effective tax rate of 18.3% for $60,000

-- Effective tax rate of 21.2% for $80,000

Let me correct it with 2023 data at current exchange rate:

 

Using the 100k deduction, and two 60k allowances (me and wife), here's what I came up with:

-- Effective tax rate of 1.8% for $15,000

-- Effective tax rate of 8% for $30,000

-- Effective tax rate of 16.2% for $60,000

-- Effective tax rate of 19.5% for $80,000