4 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

they could become tax collectors??

They have been tax collectors for 147 years.

1 minute ago, FritsSikkink said:

They have been tax collectors for 147 years.

They couldn't collect a runny nose in a flue epidemic.

27 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

They couldn't collect a runny nose in a flue epidemic.

What are your qualifications?

9 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

What are your qualifications?

For what?

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

If foreigners are not buying houses,condos,cars and keeping their money out of Thailand, I can guarantee the Baht is going nowhere but down down down...

Not likely. According to a recent BP article, there were (only) 156,596 expats in 2022. Exchange rates are mostly influenced by a strong/weak dollar, the crude oil price, or if Thailand's exports slump significantly.

Haven't checked that forum in one week. Seems things are the same. Have to wait for clarification for a correct understanding.

 

I didn't expect that but I almost feel nostalgic of previous military government. So far, that "more modern" government is promising more tax headaches for expats, more Indian/Chinese tourists, and closing of canabis shops. This doesn't seem really attractive.

I keep waiting for a potential 90 days visa exemption for more hassle free visits to compensate but so far, nothing on the table.

18 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Easy workaround with savings earned prior getting LTR Visa:

If you want to transfer $100K to Thailand, just buy an S&P500 ETF for $100K, then sell your shares right away or any time you need it (with good timing you could even realize some capital gain).

You then have proof of the ETF sale and can transfer sale proceed tax free the same year in Thailand.

If you worry about volatility just select a less volatile ETF/Stock of your choice or any other asset.

 

No one knows how this tax will be calculated exactly but I suppose if you open a separate bank account it SHOULD work. But maybe they ask where did the 100K come from...

16 hours ago, Misty said:

What if they earn all that before they became a Thai tax resident. 

 

Or as in my case if they earned all that and paid Thai tax on it already as a tax resident, but before getting an LTR visa.

I am glad you realized that regardless of a royal degree etc everyone COULD be in danger of having to pay taxes on every penny they ever earned before the LTR visa and maybe even after.

4 hours ago, RafPinto said:

I think soon, all those Youtubers living and working here and some of them making big money, they will soon stop to post more videos. Has anyone of them a work permit?

"It's also worth noting that YouTube takes a cut of the revenue generated by ads, which is around 45%. So, a YouTuber with 10,000 subscribers may earn an average of $1 to $2 per thousand views. Therefore, assuming a YouTuber gets around 1000 views per video and uploads two videos per week, they could earn approximately $8 to $16 per week, or $32 to $64 per month, solely from YouTube ads. However, this is just an estimate, and the actual earnings can be lower or higher, depending on the factors mentioned above.Reed More"

 

So really really big money to be made...????

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

If foreigners are not buying houses,condos,cars and keeping their money out of Thailand, I can guarantee the Baht is going nowhere but down down down...

This is true.

3 hours ago, freeworld said:

Relax, wait until they clarify everything, until then everybody is just speculating and complaining.

Fully agree, however I suspect there will not be a 100% clarification before June 2024 so one has to make plans in advance. Maybe wait until march and have the plans ready to leave as the 180 days close in. Better to leave at day 170 in case you have to visit TH for some days later in the year.

3 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

IMO Americans will not be subjected to this new 'interpretation' - wait for confirmation, but it is very clear to me (and I know a bit about this area). American citizens are required to pay taxes irrespective of where they live in the World, and the US Tax Authorities mandate that all other countries coimpley with this - or else. Thailand will not be able to tax Americans on any monies transferred to Thailand under their DTA, and the US Tax Dept will be responding very strongly if they attempt to do so.  USA is the only country in the world (AFAIK) that does this and gets away with it worldwide.   

It is my understanding that US citizens that earn under 100K USD a year do not pay taxes to Uncle Sam, at least that is what a US guy told me.

So all those of us from the US need to do is submit our IRS filings (which includes our social security numbers, financial status, home address, phone numbers, and bank accounts) to the Thai tax department and where it goes and how it's used, who knows??? No chance of it being passed along to people working illegally in the US for identity theft. Nope, not at all.

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

You really think this measure has any influence on the THB, much bigger forces change values of currencies.

There is indirect impact from the PT flaky popularist economic policies which are the motivation for this. Market are not convinced that about ramping up govt debt for stuff like digital wallets, debt moratorium, mass transit prices that are unlikely to have any sustained impact on productivity or growth. Also the inflationary effects of the minimum wage hikes without contingent productivity gains is worrisome from a macro perspective.

 

7 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

They couldn't manage to collect a small departure tax; do you really think they could become tax collectors??

would be easy if they wish it to so ..... just an extra document demanded by I.O. when doing whatever connection to your Stay Thailand status .... TIN  number by example ...

2 hours ago, newnative said:

Yes, my reason, too, for having it currently deposited in my USA bank.

That gives me an idea:  how about a dedicated Social Security account at the Thai bank—but use Wise to fund it?  We could prove we send the same $$ amount each month, by referencing the rate that day on the Wise site.  It might be worth a try.  
This is a worst case example.  More likely this whole taxation BS will fall by the wayside.

1 hour ago, stat said:

I am glad you realized that regardless of a royal degree etc everyone COULD be in danger of having to pay taxes on every penny they ever earned before the LTR visa and maybe even after.

The LTR visa came from the previous government and in particular was the brainchild of ML Chayothid who was an advisor to the energy minister who pushed this project at the cabinet level for him. Chayothid was hoping for a ministry or at least a deputy minister role in this government with UTN but unfortunately was left out in the cold completely. So there is no champion for the LTR policy in this government and the BOI, which runs it is under the PM’s office. Of the million LTRs targeted by the Prayut government I think they have only bagged a small fraction of that so far, while the government seems focused on low end tourists from China, Kazakhstan et al for the moment. 

I don’t see any likelihood of reneging on LTR visas or the Royal Decree at the moment but I can also see them making a fairly restricted interpretation of the Royal Decree. We have already got the interpretation that only income earned after the visa was issued is exempt which is quite restrictive. Srettha and the RD may well feel that the LTR exemption is irksome in that it is inconsistent with his spur of the moment brainfart policy and clearly the LTR exemption would never even have been considered by this government.  So I would guess the chances of erring on the generous side in future interpretations of the exemption may be limited.
 

 

1 hour ago, stat said:

It is my understanding that US citizens that earn under 100K USD a year do not pay taxes to Uncle Sam, at least that is what a US guy told me.

Wrong--but don't I wish.

17 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

The LTR visa came from the previous government and in particular was the brainchild of ML Chayothid who was an advisor to the energy minister who pushed this project at the cabinet level for him. Chayothid was hoping for a ministry or at least a deputy minister role in this government with UTN but unfortunately was left out in the cold completely. So there is no champion for the LTR policy in this government and the BOI, which runs it is under the PM’s office. Of the million LTRs targeted by the Prayut government I think they have only bagged a small fraction of that so far, while the government seems focused on low end tourists from China, Kazakhstan et al for the moment. 

I don’t see any likelihood of reneging on LTR visas or the Royal Decree at the moment but I can also see them making a fairly restricted interpretation of the Royal Decree. We have already got the interpretation that only income earned after the visa was issued is exempt which is quite restrictive. Srettha and the RD may well feel that the LTR exemption is irksome in that it is inconsistent with his spur of the moment brainfart policy and clearly the LTR exemption would never even have been considered by this government.  So I would guess the chances of erring on the generous side in future interpretations of the exemption may be limited.

We just have to see how things will develop.  Foreigners are clearly the unintended collateral damage in all this.  Probably nobody even thought about foreigners when drafting this and if they did, then they did not really realize that the typical foreigner starts with all his or her money outside Thailand while for the typical Thai it is exactly the other way round.  So these requirements are much more onerous for foreigners and moreover foreigners have it much easier to escape from all this by just leaving Thailand which is not really an option to the average Thai.  So while it is entirely possible that the doomsday scenario will happen, it is also entirely possible that foreigners will be either entirely carved out from this once the authorities had a chance to think through this or there will be so wide loopholes for foreigners that it will not really be very onerous for them.  We just have to wait and see how things will develop. 

 

5 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

IMO Americans will not be subjected to this new 'interpretation' - wait for confirmation, but it is very clear to me (and I know a bit about this area). American citizens are required to pay taxes irrespective of where they live in the World, and the US Tax Authorities mandate that all other countries coimpley with this - or else.

At what rate do Americans pay tax on for the first $120k ?

 

It's zero isn't it......

2 hours ago, El Matador said:

Haven't checked that forum in one week. Seems things are the same. Have to wait for clarification for a correct understanding.

We will only know for sure once a forum member transfers a larger sum to a Thailand bank in 2024...

19 minutes ago, K2938 said:

Probably nobody even thought about foreigners when drafting this (...)

The prime minister was quoted as saying that 'foreigners in Thailand are the target due to some "inequalities". (A post on this news forum quoted a related newspaper article a few days ago.)

6 minutes ago, ukrules said:

At what rate do Americans pay tax on for the first $120k ?

 

It's zero isn't it......

Your thinking of Foreign Income Exclusion while working in a foreign country for a certain amount of time.  That is working income only.  Not retirement nor investment income.

5 hours ago, Robin said:

iIt seems to me that the crucial term here is "Tax Resident"  How is this defined?

Can someone confirm that the figure of 180days/year in Thailand is the correct qualification?  Is it days or nights in the country?

How they count the 180 days?

Quite simple, let's say you arrive in Thailand on the 5th of March 11:00 PM and leave on the 25th of March at 03:00 AM.

They will count 21 days and not 20.

Every day you stay in the Kingdom counts and they will tell it from the stamps in your passport.

It doesn't make a difference if you arrived in Thailand at 11:00 PM on the 5th of March, as long as the arrival stamp in your passport says 5th of March, you have been in Thailand since the 5th of March.

Guys, just calm down.

 

There is no reason for panic as you have all the time in the world to plan your future.

 

Let's say there will be taxes on rent or whatever kind of income you have, and you have decided for yourself not to stay more than 180 days or even to leave the country forever in such a case.

 

In the first case you have time until the 27th of June 2024 to leave the country for a long holiday (= 180 days, assuming you have been living in the country since the 1st of January or earlier).

 

In the second case you have much more time than that.

 

Why?

 

Because the deadline for your first tax declaration is April or May in the following year, which is April or May 2025.

 

And that is a lot of time to pack your things and tell Thailand “Djoe gan chad naa, don bai bai” (see you in my next life, sometime in the early afternoon).

2 hours ago, stat said:

I am glad you realized that regardless of a royal degree etc everyone COULD be in danger of having to pay taxes on every penny they ever earned before the LTR visa and maybe even after.

Rhetorical questions

36 minutes ago, ukrules said:

At what rate do Americans pay tax on for the first $120k ?

 

It's zero isn't it......

It depends. If the income is wages Americans can chose to exclude up to $120k in 2023 from their tax calculation. However, they'll still owe tax on other types of income, such as capital gains, interest, dividends. Or if it makes more sense, they choose not to exclude $120k, but instead take a foreign tax credit against any US tax owed. The latter can work out better in cases where Americans earn and pay foreign tax on substantially more than $120k in non-US wages.

This will probably be the least popular post in the whole thread and yet I have to get it off my chest:

 

It goes to all those “I'm not going to pay a single Satang of tax in this country” – guys.

How do you justify that?

 

Let's not discuss about corrupt politicians; they are there and we're not going to change that.

 

But think about schools or government universities. Somebody has to pay for that.

 

What about law enforcement? Yeah, I know, they're all very corrupt and bad, blah blah, but every time a foreigner is robbed by some Thai, the local police get that guy in less than 24 hours. Can't say the same thing about our law enforcement. If you should ever need them, you will be more than happy that they are there.

 

Or the justice system. Again, yeah, I know that old saying “If you need a lawyer in Thailand, you have lost already.” And yet you will be glad, in case you need it.

 

What about government hospitals. Many of you might have a high-class health insurance, but trust me when I say, most Farangs I met in Thailand do not have a health insurance at all.

 

That together with a small budget and the day will come when their life might depend on the existence of those government hospitals.

 

And even if you belong to that lucky group of people with a first-class health insurance.

What about the love of your life you met last month? Does she have one?

 

Paying her bills in a private hospital will make your holiday funds shrink faster than a snowman in the desert and I don't even want to start about that Buffalo, that seems to only get sick, when the lady has a new boyfriend.

 

And if all that doesn't bother you, my last point will:

 

Infrastructure!

 

Some of you might still remember the adventurous drive from Don Muang airport to Pattaya when there were no highways or motorways.

 

We're using their streets every day.

 

What makes you think, any of this should be free of charge for you and there is no reason to support this at least a little bit?

3 minutes ago, Somjot said:

This will probably be the least popular post in the whole thread and yet I have to get it off my chest:

 

It goes to all those “I'm not going to pay a single Satang of tax in this country” – guys.

How do you justify that?

 

Let's not discuss about corrupt politicians; they are there and we're not going to change that.

 

But think about schools or government universities. Somebody has to pay for that.

 

What about law enforcement? Yeah, I know, they're all very corrupt and bad, blah blah, but every time a foreigner is robbed by some Thai, the local police get that guy in less than 24 hours. Can't say the same thing about our law enforcement. If you should ever need them, you will be more than happy that they are there.

 

Or the justice system. Again, yeah, I know that old saying “If you need a lawyer in Thailand, you have lost already.” And yet you will be glad, in case you need it.

 

What about government hospitals. Many of you might have a high-class health insurance, but trust me when I say, most Farangs I met in Thailand do not have a health insurance at all.

 

That together with a small budget and the day will come when their life might depend on the existence of those government hospitals.

 

And even if you belong to that lucky group of people with a first-class health insurance.

What about the love of your life you met last month? Does she have one?

 

Paying her bills in a private hospital will make your holiday funds shrink faster than a snowman in the desert and I don't even want to start about that Buffalo, that seems to only get sick, when the lady has a new boyfriend.

 

And if all that doesn't bother you, my last point will:

 

Infrastructure!

 

Some of you might still remember the adventurous drive from Don Muang airport to Pattaya when there were no highways or motorways.

 

We're using their streets every day.

 

What makes you think, any of this should be free of charge for you and there is no reason to support this at least a little bit?

Good points.  But I would counter that the USA and other expat countries have signed tax treaties in force.  And in the USA, the Internal Revenue Service has absolute power over our tax situation, wherever we live.

1 hour ago, StayinThailand2much said:

The prime minister was quoted as saying that 'foreigners in Thailand are the target due to some "inequalities". (A post on this news forum quoted a related newspaper article a few days ago.)

I do not recall this and it would be silly since taxing the few foreigners will not lead to huge tax revenue.  Can you please check the quote you refer to and post it here, if it exists?  The only thing which the prime minister said I think is (quoted from Bloomberg):

“Some people may not be happy that I am digging in to this area, but inequality is a big issue,” Srettha said, referring to the growing wealth gap because of tax loopholes. “The principle of tax is that you must pay tax on income your earn no matter how you earn it.”

So nothing about foreigners.  They are not the prime target, but the unintended collateral damage.