10 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

But Mojo said....

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1308598-israel-is-at-war/page/192/#comment-18460645

 

Surely it was not his intention to mislead? Perhaps a mistake or misunderstanding?

 

 

No.

It was an additional quote.

And there is another after it.

There is an unlimited supply of sources denouncing Douglas Murray.

 

You don't seem to like the Muslim Council of Britain so I gave you The Conservative Party of Britain.

1 minute ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

Nobody would have an issue with you doing exactly as you state.

 

Would you kill 3,000 kids, to at best, have a very limited impact on the bad guys?

I don't deal in hypothetical scenarios cleverly worded to establish anti semitic propaganda.

 

At least you agree that stone boy deserved his bullet.

25 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

Geez, how can you be so close..., yet so far.

 

If there was no attack by Hamas there would not be an all out Israeli assault on Gaza now.

 

This bit you seem to have a firm grasp on.

 

However,

 

If there was no oppression, land theft and subjugation of Palestinians by Israelis there would not have been an attack by Hamas.

 

This bit just as firmly eludes you.

 

You are halfway there.

You understand 50% of the issue.

 

The odds of you progressing beyond this point do seem quite unlikely though.

 

Do you have anything to back up the bit above in bold or did you just (as is typical of the bits you post) make it up? 

6 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

Nobody would have an issue with you doing exactly as you state.

 

Would you kill 3,000 kids, to at best, have a very limited impact on the bad guys?

 

   They would die anyway, everyone does eventually 

1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

I don't deal in hypothetical scenarios cleverly worded to establish anti semitic propaganda.

 

At least you agree that stone boy deserved his bullet.

 

I certainly don't agree stone throwing boys should be met with lethal force.

 

You said:

 

homicidal genocidal misogynistic fanatic terrorist was getting ready to deploy a weapon at me

4 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Sorry MrBlowsJoe, I was just agreeing with your fellow hamas protector Neeranam, take it up with him.

 

We were discussing how one dead child is too many, and that it is terrible the way Palestine/hamas is indiscriminately bombing Israel and killing children.

 

We talked of how the world is watching, and how Palestine/hamas is guilty of war crimes, and that they need to be stopped! 

 

With all the blood on their hands, do you not think Palestine/hamas should release the hostages and initiate a ceasefire? 

 

Do you not agree that hamas is committing war crimes and killing children? How many war crimes do they have to commit, and how many dead children is enough for you? 

 

Why not call hamas out to initiate a ceasefire and release the hostages?  

 

Has there not already been enough death and destruction to satisfy you?

Yes we all know Hamas are guilty of some of the worst atrocities known to man and should be hunted to the ends of the earth.

 

The Israeli Defence Forces are also going to far in their bombing and shelling of Gaza in search of Hamas, which is where I have a problem with all the innocent civilians being killed and displaced.

 

So saying one side is right and the other is wrong, shows nothing good to either side, so lets carry on and up the body count.

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   They would die anyway, everyone does eventually 

Can't argue against such devastating intellectual brilliance.

I'll give you an emoji.

Well done.

18 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

His whole schtick is Islamophobia.

 

The Tories cut relations with the guy because of his extremist tendencies.

Murray wrote an article "Blackballed by (then PM David) Cameron".

 

To be clear, sitting British Prime Minister David Cameron cut ties with Douglas Murray because of his extremist views.

 

Paul Goodman: Why the Conservative frontbench broke off relations with Douglas Murray – and what happened afterwards

 

LINK IS RIGHT BELOW

 

https://conservativehome.com/2011/10/17/by-paul-goodman-the-struggle-against-islamist-extremism-demands-from-the-start-the-separation-of-islam-a-complex-religion/

 

Islamaphobia is a made up word by Islamists to demonize any criticism of Islam, they have done thier best to get criticism classed as racism as well, but as all races have some muslins that would not wash. Without lies Islam dies, it cannot withstand rational debate on it, including a critical look at their scriptures and dreadful life of the prophet, so try to shut it down.

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Do you have anything to back up the bit above in bold or did you just (as is typical of the bits you post) make it up? 

No evidence whatsoever of Israel doing anything other than baking cookies and giving flowers to Palestinains. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. Any link to information that says otherwise is untrustworthy. I for one am astounded at the Palestinians lack of gratitude towards their loving overlords.

5 minutes ago, proton said:

 

Islamaphobia is a made up word by Islamists to demonize any criticism of Islam, they have done thier best to get criticism classed as racism as well, but as all races have some muslins that would not wash. Without lies Islam dies, it cannot withstand rational debate on it, including a critical look at their scriptures and dreadful life of the prophet, so try to shut it down.

 

And you don't see the parallels with antisemitism?

 

🤷‍♂️

 

(I do believe I may very well wear out the shrug emoji on this thread)

The World are indeed watching "Israel at War", not only recording but able to document this latest war beyond the next five minutes.

 

Allegations of war crimes against Israel

Complete with all citations from credible sources regarding the ongoing conflict.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, proton said:

photo standard crude propaganda, could even just be a bundle of rags. Hamas love it when the kiddies do get hit, straight out with the camera. Much of it appears set up, probably get a smack to get them crying sat on a pile of rubble- look what the nasty IDF did. Never forget Oct 7th!

What a lovely person you must be, so caring, I feel a tear coming in my eye, not.

23 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

No.

It was an additional quote.

And there is another after it.

There is an unlimited supply of sources denouncing Douglas Murray.

 

You don't seem to like the Muslim Council of Britain so I gave you The Conservative Party of Britain.

 

 

I asked a source for your original, unattributed quote.

You gave a link to a different quote from a different source.

Someone else provided the source for the original quote - quite clear why you didn't wish to post that yourself.

What I don't like is people trying to mislead in daft ways.

 

I haven't partaken much in the Murray thing, because it's not very interesting, and more of a diversion.

 

16 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

And you don't see the parallels with antisemitism?

 

🤷‍♂️

 

(I do believe I may very well wear out the shrug emoji on this thread)

 

   Non stop whataboutism .

Seems like every post is "What about something else" 

19 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   You took your land in 1778 , Israel got their land back in 1948 

In which year did the  rules change ?

Did you lot steal the land and then after that decided to change the rules ?

Your going down a bad path playing semantic games with him.

 

One might argue Hamas has decided those rules never apply, and is trying to take land the way the settlers in the US, or Australia, or the Mongols or Israel with its settlements has taken land not theirs.

 

When is it wrong, or is it forever going to be those who can do, or those who want try?

 

With Hamas and the corrupt and, I suspect, psychopath Netanyahu, we've gone back to the law of the jungle. There are no moderates in positions of power today.

 

In no way do I support the terrorists of Hamas. Similarly, had I been alive in 1948, I would not have supported the terrorists of the Irgun and Stern Gang. They slaughtered somewhere between 105 and 250 (depending on the source) men, women and children at Deir Yassin, and also blew up the King David Hotel. Bad start all around.

 

Sadly, one of the terrorist leaders became Israel's Prime Minister, and I suspect that has stuck in the craw of Palestinians and been passed down as fuel for an eternal blood feud.

31 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

Nobody would have an issue with you doing exactly as you state.

 

Would you kill 3,000 kids, to at best, have a very limited impact on the bad guys?

 

Earlier, you rejected a comment I made about Hamas attack getting less backlash had the atrocities been left out of it.

 

As for 'limited impact', how would you know? All in good time.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

The World are indeed watching "Israel at War", not only recording but able to document this latest war beyond the next five minutes.

 

Allegations of war crimes against Israel

Complete with all citations from credible sources regarding the ongoing conflict.

 

 

 

 

   The war crimes by Hamas were not alleged, they have been proven 

Hamas are currently participating in war crimes , nothing alleged about them 

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Non stop whataboutism .

Seems like every post is "What about something else" 

 

Yes.

There are two sides to this.

Two eerily similar sides when it comes to atrocities and crimes against humanity.

Consistently apply the same standards to both sides and the "whataboutism" disappears.

 

Started by Russia to take social media pressure from Ukraine.🤔

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   The war crimes by Hamas were not alleged, they have been proven 

Hamas are currently participating in war crimes , nothing alleged about them 

 

Why is it so hard for you to simply admit reality?

 

BOTH Hamas and the IDF are war criminals.

BOTH Hamas and the IDF murder civilians.

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Earlier, you rejected a comment I made about Hamas attack getting less backlash had the atrocities been left out of it.

 

I don't recall, on which page?

 

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

As for 'limited impact', how would you know? All in good time.

 

Because Israel are risking a ground invasion.

Had the carpet bombing proved effective - no ground invasion required.

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   The war crimes by Hamas were not alleged, they have been proven 

Hamas are currently participating in war crimes , nothing alleged about them 

Agreed, Hamas actions overstepped the line first, regarding this latest conflict.

 

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   The war crimes by Hamas were not alleged, they have been proven 

Hamas are currently participating in war crimes , nothing alleged about them 

Yes to all the above but what about the crimes of the Israeli side?

 

The UN is investigating all the atrocities so no one is innocent in any of this.

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/commission-inquiry-collecting-evidence-war-crimes-committed-all-sides-israel

2 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

Why is it so hard for you to simply admit reality?

 

BOTH Hamas and the IDF are war criminals.

BOTH Hamas and the IDF murder civilians.

 

   Nope, Hamas are terrorist who have committed war crimes .

Hamas supporters just accuse Israel of committing war crimes as a defence of their own atrocities and an attempt to normalise  their terrorist activities 

   250 people murdered at a outdoor party  is killing innocent civilians by Hamas  

IDF Bombing buildings where those murderers operate from is legitimate targets of war 

 

5 minutes ago, proton said:

Says our resident Hamas and Islamist apologist!

 

If I am apologising for Hamas and Islam, am I not then also apologising for Israel and Judaism given in every post I equate Hamas and the IDF (e.g. Hamsa = IDF)?

 

Logic has to be applied consistently or it ceases to be logical.

I have no more skin in this game than I did for the horrors of Rwanda back in the 1990s. Horror is horror, evil is evil, and people are people, no innocents better or worse than any other innocents. All of the deaths are sad.

 

A bigger picture worry I have is that Iran will either get too actively involved, or else Netanyahu will unilaterally decide to attack Iran. Undoubtedly that would please short term thinking right wingers in the US, as well as the Gulf States.

 

Obama and his team had true vision. The JCPOA was merely an initial step, and a time-buying step, to bring Iran into the community of nations. It absolutely stopped nuke development, although an Israeli disinformation operation sowed doubts in that ("finding" documents from ~2001 that indicated Iran's nuclear goals). The JCPOA was effective, but trump---the consummate bad dealmaker---decided he had to undue everything Obama did.

 

The longer term outlook of the JCPOA was to buy time until the aging mullahs died. Iran is ripe for change. It's young want to be let loose to modernize the country and live lives similar to what people in developed countries live. The trend in Iran is toward a middle ground between the abuses of the Shah and the fanaticism of the mullahs. Iran has everything it needs to become an economic powerhouse, and if calmed and left alone, will become that after the mullahs die.

 

That scares the Gulf States, because most have organically done absolutely nothing with their vast oil and gas wealth. They have remained feudal and mostly backward, few outside of the royal elite have any chance to prosper, and the royals can pillage their own coffers for their own benefit as they wish. To have a neighbor become a non-resource player would embarrass them. Worse is that the player would be Shi'ite, not Sunni.

 

Since Biden was VP under Obama, I hope this long term belief still exists in this Administration, and that the US is quietly discouraging Netanyahu from setting things back another few generations, as well as warning Iran.

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Nope, Hamas are terrorist who have committed war crimes .

Hamas supporters just accuse Israel of committing war crimes as a defence of their own atrocities and an attempt to normalise  their terrorist activities 

   250 people murdered at a outdoor party  is killing innocent civilians by Hamas  

IDF Bombing buildings where those murderers operate from is legitimate targets of war 

 

 

Technically, both sides are innocent until proven guilty.

Realistically, both sides are guilty as sin.

 

Until impartial investigations are complete, it is meaningless to debate as many are to set in stone to accept evidence that contradicts their own opinions.

 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-war-crimes-icc-1a42212b95a7f6ce54909fb22e0d681d

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

   Why is it that Israelis land is not theirs , but the Aborigines land is yours ?

What is the difference ?

Israel was given their land by the U.N , who gave you the Aborigines land ?

The U.N gave Israelis the right to live in Israel,. who gave you the right to live in Australia ?

Easy one that, the British Army and Navy, when that sort of thing was allowed pre t'internet.

4 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

I have no more skin in this game than I did for the horrors of Rwanda back in the 1990s. Horror is horror, evil is evil, and people are people, no innocents better or worse than any other innocents. All of the deaths are sad.

 

A bigger picture worry I have is that Iran will either get too actively involved, or else Netanyahu will unilaterally decide to attack Iran. Undoubtedly that would please short term thinking right wingers in the US, as well as the Gulf States.

 

Obama and his team had true vision. The JCPOA was merely an initial step, and a time-buying step, to bring Iran into the community of nations. It absolutely stopped nuke development, although an Israeli disinformation operation sowed doubts in that ("finding" documents from ~2001 that indicated Iran's nuclear goals). The JCPOA was effective, but trump---the consummate bad dealmaker---decided he had to undue everything Obama did.

 

The longer term outlook of the JCPOA was to buy time until the aging mullahs died. Iran is ripe for change. It's young want to be let loose to modernize the country and live lives similar to what people in developed countries live. The trend in Iran is toward a middle ground between the abuses of the Shah and the fanaticism of the mullahs. Iran has everything it needs to become an economic powerhouse, and if calmed and left alone, will become that after the mullahs die.

 

That scares the Gulf States, because most have organically done absolutely nothing with their vast oil and gas wealth. They have remained feudal and mostly backward, few outside of the royal elite have any chance to prosper, and the royals can pillage their own coffers for their own benefit as they wish. To have a neighbor become a non-resource player would embarrass them. Worse is that the player would be Shi'ite, not Sunni.

 

Since Biden was VP under Obama, I hope this long term belief still exists in this Administration, and that the US is quietly discouraging Netanyahu from setting things back another few generations, as well as warning Iran.

 

The end of this war will not be something that Netanyahu is looking forward to.

Dragging Iran in certainly benefits him, as it delays that day.

Bibi's day of reckoning is coming, not from Palestinians or Arabs or Muslims, but from his own enraged Israeli citizenry.

If he survives, he will be exiled to Florida.

Maybe, just maybe Israel will give the left of centre parties a chance to find a peaceful resolution..., or will it be Yitzak Rabin redux.

3 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Easy one that, the British Army and Navy, when that sort of thing was allowed pre t'internet.

 

   Isreal also  got their land in pre internet days , 1948