Chinese nuclear-powered sub disaster, 55 dead in the Yellow Sea, a wakeup call for Thailand

[webfact]

Thailand’s Minister of Foreign Affairs Parnpree Bahiddha-Nu-Kara has confirmed that the controversial purchase by Thailand of an S26T Yuan class submarine will be on the agenda when Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin travels to Beijing in the coming week. It comes with British intelligence reports that a Chinese submarine suffered a malfunction in the Yellow Sea with the loss of 55 people onboard with just one survivor after it became ensnared in a trap set for US submarines and its oxygen system failed.

 

The reported incident, which happened in August and is absolutely denied by Beijing and Chinese officials, raises the issue of safety and confidence about the proposed purchase of a Chinese submarine for ฿13.5 billion by Thailand at a time when the contract has already been breached by China by its failure to deliver the specified German engines in the original agreement signed in 2017.

 

As Thailand’s PM gets ready for his trip to Beijing next week, the country’s Minister of Foreign Affairs Parnpree Bahiddha-Nu-Kara, has already confirmed that there will be discussions on the kingdom’s troubled contract with China to buy an S26T Yuan class submarine for ฿13.5 billion which has already commenced production but which stalled when the Chinese shipyard failed to deliver a German-made engine.

 

This week, a credible report of the loss of nearly the entire crew of a Chinese nuclear-powered submarine in the Yellow Sea, should warn Thailand of the risks posed to any country taking on from scratch nuclear-powered submarine operations. The current deal is a compromise the Royal Thai Navy recommended after extensive discussions with Beijing earlier this year.

 

Beijing denies the accident linked with the Chinese sub. It is based on a British intelligence report published by some of the country’s top media sources.

 

by James Morris and Son Nguyen

 

Full story: Thai Examiner.com 2023-10-10

 

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[CanadaSam]

The PM seems to be a bit more sensible than his predecessors i.e. stopping military purchases for the next year, etc., and one would hope, he will also put a stop to the purchase of this completely useless very expensive toy!

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, CanadaSam said:

The PM seems to be a bit more sensible than his predecessors i.e. stopping military purchases for the next year, etc., and one would hope, he will also put a stop to the purchase of this completely useless very expensive toy!

Has he the backbone to say to Xi... no thanks contract canceled.

[daveAustin]

No he hasn’t the backbone. He’ll express mild concern, don that usual sickly smile and buy the thing anyway. 

[tandor]

Thailand should be worrying more about what's happening above the waves. IMHO

[nobodysfriend]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

British intelligence reports that a Chinese submarine suffered a malfunction in the Yellow Sea with the loss of 55 people onboard with just one survivor after it became ensnared in a trap set for US submarines and its oxygen system failed.

 

4 hours ago, webfact said:

raises the issue of safety and confidence about the proposed purchase of a Chinese submarine for ฿13.5 billion

 

4 hours ago, webfact said:

This week, a credible report of the loss of nearly the entire crew of a Chinese nuclear-powered submarine in the Yellow Sea, should warn Thailand of the risks posed to any country taking on from scratch nuclear-powered submarine operations. The current deal is a compromise the Royal Thai Navy recommended after extensive discussions with Beijing earlier this year.

Thailand , please do not buy this crap submarine from the chinese ... Better spend the 13,5 billion on chinese solar panels , and the thai people will profit from that sustainable electricity produced in Thailand .

What do they get from a submarine ? Only headaches ...

[kennw]

3 hours ago, CanadaSam said:

The PM seems to be a bit more sensible than his predecessors i.e. stopping military purchases for the next year, etc., and one would hope, he will also put a stop to the purchase of this completely useless very expensive toy!

No project no bakshee, forget the sub, just find a more useful project. TIT cant stop bakshee.

[mfd101]

Um, this is a nuclear-powered submarine, NOT what the Thai Navy (foolishly) wishes to purchase.

 

Still wouldn't buy a conventional-powered sub from the Chinese but people do need to get their basic facts right before they shoot off (assuming that the report above is accurate).

Edited October 10, 2023 by mfd101

[jippytum]

I don't think this would happen with the Thai submarine. The current one never leaves its moorings. 

[2baht]

40 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

No he hasn’t the backbone. He’ll express mild concern, don that usual sickly smile and buy the thing anyway. 

He'll bow to the Emperor (Xi)! 

[mikebell]

What use is a sub?  What use could ฿13.5 billion be put to?  QED!

[klauskunkel]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

a Chinese submarine suffered a malfunction in the Yellow Sea with the loss of 55 people onboard with just one survivor after it became ensnared in a trap set for US submarines

Did they get caught in their own trap? Well, that would be embarrassing...

[Peabody]

Nuclear powered, but batteries went dead --> death??

 

[Tropicalevo]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Beijing denies the accident linked with the Chinese sub.

Of course, the CCP government never lies.

[Hamus Yaigh]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Beijing denies the accident linked with the Chinese sub. It is based on a British intelligence report published by some of the country’s top media sources.

Journalism at its finest. So everyone still none the wiser.

[spidermike007]

 

It is likely this happened. The Brits would not make this up and denial is the M.O. of the CCP. The Chinese ships and subs are likely poorly made. Thankfully the Chinese navy is incapable of traveling more than 1,500 km., in ideal conditions. Likely more like 600 km. in war conditions. And they have very few deep sea ports. Their navy is a threat only to their smaller neighbors. 

 

Thai naval forces have not operated submarines for over 60 years now, while neighboring countries, particularly those with a major dispute at sea with Thailand, such as Vietnam, are all equipped with modern submarines. 

 

Looks like they are willing to take a huge risk with the treasury. Why were they so timid with Covid?

 

This government is a whirlpool of conflicting loyalties and interests. It's leader has to manage those interests, and effectively buy the loyalties of the various parts of the armed forces. The submarines are the price he has to pay for the navy supporting him. They will end up unusable and unaffordable, as did the aircraft carrier. There is no strategic justification for the submarines. There is really no military threat to Thailand, none of the countries with which it shares a land border have the capacity for anything other than the occasional cross border firefight. If you look carefully at all the military procurement of recent years, they are all to support ambitions, and thus buy the support of the various rival groups within the armed forces. They simply do not add up to any sort of a coherent modernisation or re-equipment of what remains a largely obsolete, immobile and under trained force, able only to undertake the most mundane of garrison duties, whilst it's bloated leadership occupies itself with playing politics or their own largely unregulated business ventures.

 

The government however (or more realistically those to whom it reports) must rely upon the military to keep it in power. It was put into power for one core function; to prevent the nascent political, social and economic liberalisation of Thai society which arose with the arrival of new technologies and communications, which have allowed a (younger) population which has long been kept ill educated and dependent for any advancement on its elders and sponsors, to communicate, educate themselves and develop business independent of those elders and sponsors. The Covid crisis was in a dimension beyond that, and it's timid, chaotic "rabbit in the headlights" response to the challenges it brought were simply because it did not know how to react, other than to use some of the opportunities to exercise power, in pursuit of that core function, which the social and political restrictions they argue the disease has necessitated, and granted them.

Edited October 10, 2023 by spidermike007

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, jippytum said:

I don't think this would happen with the Thai submarine. The current one never leaves its moorings. 

That's no surprise, it was decommissioned in 1950!

[blazes]

3 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Has he the backbone to say to Xi... no thanks contract canceled.

No more backbone than Trudeau when dealing with the Chinese over dodgy behaviour on their  part.  So little backbone that Trudeau had to suffer the public humiliation of being reprimanded in public by Comrade Xi.

[poyai111]

1 hour ago, jippytum said:

I don't think this would happen with the Thai submarine. The current one never leaves its moorings. 

Much of the Gulf of Thailand is too shallow for a deep dive to avoid detection. A vain attempt to gain international relevance 

[sammieuk1]

Was the sub that got caught up in its own sub-net named the Phoenix  ????

[ignore it]

Xi says, "Sorry about that German engine stuff.  How about we just upgrade you to a "like new" nuclear subbie?"

[brianthainess]

A wake up call for Thailand, that normally involves a power pole or tree, ????????????????????

[RafPinto]

2 hours ago, jippytum said:

I don't think this would happen with the Thai submarine. The current one never leaves its moorings. 

It's an eco friendly one.
No pollution at all.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, tandor said:

Thailand should be worrying more about what's happening above the waves. IMHO

Why Thailand?

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20170822-why-its-not-surprising-that-ship-collisions-still-happen

[blazes]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

 

.

 

The government however (or more realistically those to whom it reports) must rely upon the military to keep it in power. It was put into power for one core function; to prevent the nascent political, social and economic liberalisation of Thai society which arose with the arrival of new technologies and communications, which have allowed a (younger) population which has long been kept ill educated and dependent for any advancement on its elders and sponsors, to communicate, educate themselves and develop business independent of those elders and sponsors. The Covid crisis was in a dimension beyond that, and it's timid, chaotic "rabbit in the headlights" response to the challenges it brought were simply because it did not know how to react, other than to use some of the opportunities to exercise power, in pursuit of that core function, which the social and political restrictions they argue the disease has necessitated, and granted them.

Excellent analysis.   Totally agree.

Amazing how well the analysis also fits virtually any modern government, including of course the US of A.

Your mention of the Covid response and the way governments used it to exercise Soviet-style power would apply to the UK, Canada and many  many other so-called democratic countries.  Perhaps Thailand is a latecomer to the feast of the power elite.

[nobodysfriend]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12589429/chinese-sailors-trap-yellow-sea.html

 

• Twenty-two officers were among the 55 reported to have died in the Yellow Sea
• China denies it happened - and apparently refused international assistance

 

 

 

Fifty-five Chinese sailors are feared dead after their nuclear submarine apparently got caught in a trap intended to ensnare British sub-surface vessels in the Yellow Sea.

According to a secret UK report the seamen died following a catastrophic failure of the submarine's oxygen systems which poisoned the crew.

The captain of the Chinese PLA Navy submarine '093-417' is understood to be among the deceased, as were 21 other officers.

Officially, China has denied the incident took place. It also appears Beijing refused to request international assistance for its stricken submarine.

 

[Dogmatix]

The subs will compliment the the aircraft carrier and will only be used on Children's Day to let kids climb all over them.  So the engine controversy is irrelevant. They can just order without  engine and install a long tailed boat engine for moving around in the harbour. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Dogmatix

[spidermike007]

The subs will make a nice addition to the naval museum, once they realize that they are too expensive to maintain, they break down often, and they are too difficult for the inexperienced captains to pilot. 

[Sydebolle]

Puzzled, to say the least:

• what is the difference between "Beijing and Chinese officials"
• is anyone in Thailand aware, that for the price of ONE SUBMARINE, you can pay for TWO ENTIRE RAILWAYS systems which were built by the Chinese from 2016-2021 across Laos with hundreds of bridges and tunnels.
  • Unlike Thailand, Laos had no existing railway system which could have been upgraded, i.e. they started from scratch. 
• the Germans will not supply any engines whatsoever; that has to do with the soured relations between Germany and China on the behest of the absolutely incompetent German foreign minister.
  • She thought that she had to put her big nose into China's domestic affairs on how to run their country while commenting in a less-than-favourable manner on the Chinese brother number one.
  • Did not go down well in China and the Germans will pay for that faux-pas straight through their nose in the near future. 
• the entire Thai submarine story is such a farçe for the sake of making a handful of goons very, very, very rich again
• shallow days ahead - literally 

Your call! 

[spidermike007]

The Thais were suckered into buying an MG quality sub, at a Rolls Royce price! It was a massive Chinese swindle.