Old condo buildings in Pattaya. Do you live in one?

[bradiston]

On 11/6/2023 at 1:14 PM, lextsy said:

 

How do you even think property has dropped 50% in 10 years when i can assure you that from what ive seen in 10 years property is up about 50%.

 

Based on the condo i stay

Renting for 10 years - 25k THB is 3m thb

Owning for 10 years - 4.4mthb + 440k in fees + special levy of 100k total 5m thb ( Property value now 6.5m thb)

 

I just dont understand what you mean by dont look at getting any of your money back? I could sell now for 6m thb firesale and come out 1 million baht in front for the last 10 years or 4m thb better off than if i was to rent here.

 

Maybe in London, sure. I bought and lived in a flat in London I bought for £68k and sold 10 years later for £380k. It's exceptional. Ask any Aussie, Kiwi or Safa. Everybody got rich in those days. But here? You've got to be kidding!

[newnative]

37 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Maybe in London, sure. I bought and lived in a flat in London I bought for £68k and sold 10 years later for £380k. It's exceptional. Ask any Aussie, Kiwi or Safa. Everybody got rich in those days. But here? You've got to be kidding!

     No, of course you don't make those kinds of profits here.  Perhaps, I should qualify that statement to just speak for myself and my spouse and say that we have not made those kinds of profits here.  Maybe others have, and I don't want to speak for them, but we have not.  However, it is also true that we have never lost money on any condo or house purchase we have made in Thailand.  Never.  That includes 2 condos in Rayong.  1 condo in Bangkok.  2 houses in Pattaya.  And, 18 condos in Pattaya.  The larger 2 and 3 bedroom condos and the houses made bigger profits than the smaller studio and 1 bedroom condos, but they were all profitable.  

     Since we have only been in Thailand since 2010, it's easy to see that most of the above properties were not owned for very long--none for your 10 years.  5 of the Pattaya condos were bought as rentals and then sold when we decided we didn't want to be landlords anymore.   We have always made a profit because we don't sell until we do make a profit.  It's that simple.  We have, luckily, not been in a situation where we needed to sell quickly, even at a loss.  Deals will come along, even during covid, when we sold a condo and a house.  Even during a pandemic, people need a roof over their heads.  Sometimes properties sell quickly, sometimes patience is required.  

[bradiston]

20 minutes ago, newnative said:

     No, of course you don't make those kinds of profits here.  Perhaps, I should qualify that statement to just speak for myself and my spouse and say that we have not made those kinds of profits here.  Maybe others have, and I don't want to speak for them, but we have not.  However, it is also true that we have never lost money on any condo or house purchase we have made in Thailand.  Never.  That includes 2 condos in Rayong.  1 condo in Bangkok.  2 houses in Pattaya.  And, 18 condos in Pattaya.  The larger 2 and 3 bedroom condos and the houses made bigger profits than the smaller studio and 1 bedroom condos, but they were all profitable.  

     Since we have only been in Thailand since 2010, it's easy to see that most of the above properties were not owned for very long--none for your 10 years.  5 of the Pattaya condos were bought as rentals and then sold when we decided we didn't want to be landlords anymore.   We have always made a profit because we don't sell until we do make a profit.  It's that simple.  We have, luckily, not been in a situation where we needed to sell quickly, even at a loss.  Deals will come along, even during covid, when we sold a condo and a house.  Even during a pandemic, people need a roof over their heads.  Sometimes properties sell quickly, sometimes patience is required.  

Excellent and congratulations. But I would imagine either one, or both of you, are "in the business" so to speak, and not mere punters. 23 properties in 13 years, some rentals...this is not a hobby, right? Whatever, you are good at it. Knowing where, when and what to buy and at what price, and reselling at a profit. That takes a lot of expertise, experience and business savvy, and detailed market knowledge. So you're far from the average Jo. But some details are missing. You can sell at a profit but still make a loss overall. Maintenance costs, running costs, legal fees, CGT if it exists here, whatever other taxes there might be, condo costs, advertising and marketing etc etc. I'm not sure how straightforward it all is.

 

 

[lexxy]

3 hours ago, bradiston said:

Maybe in London, sure. I bought and lived in a flat in London I bought for £68k and sold 10 years later for £380k. It's exceptional. Ask any Aussie, Kiwi or Safa. Everybody got rich in those days. But here? You've got to be kidding!

 

I did that in sydney. Bought a place for 1m AUD, Paid it off in 9 years now valued at 3m aud.

Pattaya bought for 150k AUD (when exchange was 30-1) and now valued at between 6-7m thb which is 300k. Crap investment considering i could have borrowed another 500k aud and tripled it but who wants to do that over and over... we living the dream over here ma bois

[newnative]

8 hours ago, bradiston said:

Excellent and congratulations. But I would imagine either one, or both of you, are "in the business" so to speak, and not mere punters. 23 properties in 13 years, some rentals...this is not a hobby, right? Whatever, you are good at it. Knowing where, when and what to buy and at what price, and reselling at a profit. That takes a lot of expertise, experience and business savvy, and detailed market knowledge. So you're far from the average Jo. But some details are missing. You can sell at a profit but still make a loss overall. Maintenance costs, running costs, legal fees, CGT if it exists here, whatever other taxes there might be, condo costs, advertising and marketing etc etc. I'm not sure how straightforward it all is.

 

 

       It actually is a hobby of sorts for us.  My Thai spouse has a regular job and I am retired.  I think our only 'business savvy', if any, was always buying seaview condos, both in Rayong and Pattaya--and, we always did that because we, ourselves, wanted a seaview.  We always buy and renovate with ourselves in mind, not a future buyer.  Most of the projects were small, because that was all we could afford in our early years here.  It was easy to move from place to place because we always sold the condos furnished.  We did six View Talay studios, for example, plus at least that many small 1 bedrooms at different projects.  We were always fixing up places for us to live in ourselves, which we did--just for not too long.

     I don't think much in the way of 'details' is missing.  Things are simple here, with real estate, compared to the US or the UK.  Transactions can, and often do, conclude in a few weeks, or less.   In our case, we have never had any of your mentioned marketing or advertising costs.  We list with as many realtors as we can, which is free, and we use free marketing, such as Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace.  You don't necessarily need to use a lawyer to do a real estate transaction here, although I would recommend using one if you are uncertain about the process and what should be, and not be, in a real estate contract.  In any case, just a small expense.

       I'm not following your statement, 'You can sell at a profit but still make a loss overall.'   In my book, you either make a profit or you don't.  It's always one or the other, and easy to tell which, if you keep accurate expense records.  We always pay cash for a property here so there are no mortgages involved, and no costs associated with them.  Also, no appraisal costs, no termite inspection costs, no costs to test for radon, no settlement attorney fees, etc., here.  But, yes, always closing cost fees and taxes, and usually realtor commissions.   It's all pretty cut and dried.

     You are correct that there are monthly maintenance fees and utilities.  We don't bother to figure them in because, frankly, they are so low here, and we see them more as cost-of-living items.  For a year, it might be 50,000 baht, more or less, for a condo's maintenance fees.  The house we just sold had monthly estate fees of 1,500 baht, or 18,000 baht a year.  Utilities don't figure in at all, in my opinion.  We also don't figure in rent savings, although we do save on not paying rent.

[Keep Right]

A condo is a terrible investment in Thailand, new or old. Condos like vehicles, continue to devalue as they age. This is due mainly because the Thais do not maintain their buildings nor remodel them. After twenty five years, they are slums.

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

       It actually is a hobby of sorts for us.  My Thai spouse has a regular job and I am retired.  I think our only 'business savvy', if any, was always buying seaview condos, both in Rayong and Pattaya--and, we always did that because we, ourselves, wanted a seaview.  We always buy and renovate with ourselves in mind, not a future buyer.  Most of the projects were small, because that was all we could afford in our early years here.  It was easy to move from place to place because we always sold the condos furnished.  We did six View Talay studios, for example, plus at least that many small 1 bedrooms at different projects.  We were always fixing up places for us to live in ourselves, which we did--just for not too long.

     I don't think much in the way of 'details' is missing.  Things are simple here, with real estate, compared to the US or the UK.  Transactions can, and often do, conclude in a few weeks, or less.   In our case, we have never had any of your mentioned marketing or advertising costs.  We list with as many realtors as we can, which is free, and we use free marketing, such as Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace.  You don't necessarily need to use a lawyer to do a real estate transaction here, although I would recommend using one if you are uncertain about the process and what should be, and not be, in a real estate contract.  In any case, just a small expense.

       I'm not following your statement, 'You can sell at a profit but still make a loss overall.'   In my book, you either make a profit or you don't.  It's always one or the other, and easy to tell which, if you keep accurate expense records.  We always pay cash for a property here so there are no mortgages involved, and no costs associated with them.  Also, no appraisal costs, no termite inspection costs, no costs to test for radon, no settlement attorney fees, etc., here.  But, yes, always closing cost fees and taxes, and usually realtor commissions.   It's all pretty cut and dried.

     You are correct that there are monthly maintenance fees and utilities.  We don't bother to figure them in because, frankly, they are so low here, and we see them more as cost-of-living items.  For a year, it might be 50,000 baht, more or less, for a condo's maintenance fees.  The house we just sold had monthly estate fees of 1,500 baht, or 18,000 baht a year.  Utilities don't figure in at all, in my opinion.  We also don't figure in rent savings, although we do save on not paying rent.

What I meant by "selling at a profit but still make a loss" was, although you might sell for more than you paid, all the other costs can wipe out that "profit".

 

Anyway, you seem to have had a remarkable run. I have a large house I can't sell here and a large house I can't sell in Philippines. Land is a different proposition as an investment. I'm just not a builder, and so fail dismally when it comes to construction.

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Keep Right said:

A condo is a terrible investment in Thailand, new or old. Condos like vehicles, continue to devalue as they age. This is due mainly because the Thais do not maintain their buildings nor remodel them. After twenty five years, they are slums.

 

Great news! I'm glad an expert has finally weighed in. How much are condos now in that 26-year-old Royal Cliff Garden slum? Been wanting to pick up a 2-bedroom for a song. Down to, say, B300,000 now? Should be cheaper than Nirun anyway.

[newnative]

14 minutes ago, BigStar said:

 

Great news! I'm glad an expert has finally weighted in. How much are condos now in that 26-year-old Royal Cliff Garden slum? Been wanting to pick up a 2-bedroom for a song. Down to, say, B300,000 now? Should be cheaper than Nirun anyway.

     Me, too!  Yes, that is great news!  While you have your eyes on Royal Cliff, I'm patiently waiting for Saranchol Condo in Wong Amat, built waaay back in 1994.  My goodness!  That isn't even this century!    Cheapest condo is still 25 million baht but I feel sure Keep Right is correct and it's going to deteriorate into a slum any day now.  Yes, any day now.  Way overdue.  Just a little more patience . . .

[BigStar]

3 minutes ago, newnative said:

     Me, too!  Yes, that is great news!  While you have your eyes on Royal Cliff, I'm patiently waiting for Saranchol Condo in Wong Amat, built waaay back in 1994.  My goodness!  That isn't even this century!    Cheapest condo is still 25 million baht but I feel sure Keep Right is correct and it's going to deteriorate into a slum any day now.  Yes, any day now.  Way overdue.  Just a little more patience . . .

 

OMG, you read my mind! The Saranchol slum was in fact my backup in case I couldn't find the Royal Cliff unit for less than 700,000. You know ANF Poster Economics: Thais raise prices when things aren't selling. I know that 25 milllion is simply a failure to update the database. For the last 20 years or so. I'm also not seeing any of those pitiful little handwritten For Sale notices on the notice boards at Foodland or Big C, however.

 

@Keep Right, please put us in touch with all those owners in these slums desperate to sell and heading for the exits! We're ready to buy!

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, Keep Right said:

A condo is a terrible investment in Thailand, new or old. Condos like vehicles, continue to devalue as they age. This is due mainly because the Thais do not maintain their buildings nor remodel them. After twenty five years, they are slums.

Like the Dusit resort and Royal Cliff?

[noobexpat]

Never heard of saranchol, so had a nosey. Its not expensive per sqm, its just they are 250 sqm condo's.

 

Obviously filled with affluent folks. Makes a huge difference compared to living amongst struggling retirees and their rusty mopeds.

 

Its an outlier. Still looks rather dated though. No doubt that cliff one is the same, even without looking.

[NextG]

28 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

Never heard of saranchol, so had a nosey. Its not expensive per sqm, its just they are 250 sqm condo's.

 

Obviously filled with affluent folks. Makes a huge difference compared to living amongst struggling retirees and their rusty mopeds.

 

Its an outlier. Still looks rather dated though. No doubt that cliff one is the same, even without looking.

You are trying too hard. All of the places mentioned are streets above your shiny, though ‘down at heel’ accommodation, squeezed into the middle of a slum. Where you get to gander at your neighbours for free. Takes all sorts, doesn’t it?

[noobexpat]

Center condo is 33 years old (near tuk com). I think this is an indicator of how they age. 

 

This is somewhere i could never live. I'm sure there are nice individual units though that have been fully refurbed.

[noobexpat]

1 minute ago, NextG said:

You are trying too hard. All of the places mentioned are streets above your shiny, though ‘down at heel’ accommodation, squeezed into the middle of a slum. Where you get to gander at your neighbours for free. Takes all sorts, doesn’t it?

 

You still following me? get your own life instead.

Always the broke folk with the biggest chip-on-shoulder.

[NextG]

8 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

 

You still following me? get your own life instead.

Always the broke folk with the biggest chip-on-shoulder.

Naah…. commenting on a thread; that of which I have done previously. 
Yes indeed, I’ve been wondering about that thing on your shoulder. Why you feel the need to ‘advertise’ how much you pay for your accommodation and how it doesn’t bother you if the rent goes up… why you felt the need to show us your ‘Elite’ pack… amongst other things. 
You are trying too hard. It’s embarrassing. 
Then you try to sling mud at people suggesting they are broke, which makes you look even more pathetic and callous. But of course, a single male claiming to be young would not choose to live in the middle of a slum, in order to pull cheap women if he had anything else about him. So you think money is your ‘pull’. Pitiful. 

[noobexpat]

18 minutes ago, NextG said:

Naah…. commenting on a thread; that of which I have done previously. 
Yes indeed, I’ve been wondering about that thing on your shoulder. Why you feel the need to ‘advertise’ how much you pay for your accommodation and how it doesn’t bother you if the rent goes up… why you felt the need to show us your ‘Elite’ pack… amongst other things. 
You are trying too hard. It’s embarrassing. 
Then you try to sling mud at people suggesting they are broke, which makes you look even more pathetic and callous. But of course, a single male claiming to be young would not choose to live in the middle of a slum, in order to pull cheap women if he had anything else about him. So you think money is your ‘pull’. Pitiful. 

 

You got all upset when i mentioned i like to live in a condo development where i feel proud to live. It was a remark aimed at nobody.

 

You played the big man and called me out. And here we are. Look at the mess this got you into 555

 

Learn your lesson.

[NextG]

2 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

 

You got all upset when i mentioned i like to live in a condo development where i feel proud to live. It was a remark aimed at nobody.

 

You played the big man and called me out. And here we are. Look at the mess this got you into 555

 

Learn your lesson.

No, it’s you getting upset, it’s you who tried to ‘play the big man’ and it’s you who is in a ‘mess’ about it. 
See it now?
 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, noobexpat said:

Center condo is 33 years old (near tuk com). I think this is an indicator of how they age. 

 

This is somewhere i could never live. I'm sure there are nice individual units though that have been fully refurbed.

Centre condo is the classic "you can't polish a turd" ruined by all those people mainly Thais building on the balconies, the best condos don't allow that. Look at Royal Cliff, perfectly maintained

[noobexpat]

45 minutes ago, NextG said:

No, it’s you getting upset, it’s you who tried to ‘play the big man’ and it’s you who is in a ‘mess’ about it. 
See it now?
 

 

No i don't. 

You are hanging off every word i write.

 

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, NextG said:

No, it’s you getting upset, it’s you who tried to ‘play the big man’ and it’s you who is in a ‘mess’ about it. 
See it now?
 

no, it's you.

[noobexpat]

12 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Centre condo is the classic "you can't polish a turd" ruined by all those people mainly Thais building on the balconies, the best condos don't allow that. Look at Royal Cliff, perfectly maintained

 

Royal cliff same as the other one mentioned. 20m for 200 sqm condos. Expensive because massive. Would certainly keep the riff raff out.

 

This is similar cost to what i rent now: 100k per sqm buying price.

I will be interested to see how well the 'garden condos' in soi 15 age.

I'm in one of the newest ones and already ...yikes!

 

[NextG]

13 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

 

No i don't. 

You are hanging off every word i write.

 

Is that English? Try English. 

[NextG]

13 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

no, it's you.

You still desperately trying to get back at me? 🤭

 

[noobexpat]

The future problem is that good sized rooms for a single person in a good central location aren't getting built any more. (+50 sqm)

 

I had a tour of Once pattaya in north pattaya area. 35sqm for a 1 bed for 4m, give or take depending upon high or low floor. Ouch!

 

[NextG]

10 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

 

Royal cliff same as the other one mentioned. 20m for 200 sqm condos. Expensive because massive. Would certainly keep the riff raff out.

 

This is similar cost to what i rent now: 100k per sqm buying price.

I will be interested to see how well the 'garden condos' in soi 15 age.

I'm in one of the newest ones and already ...yikes!

 

Haha…. You are out of your mind if you think your tacky holiday apartments bear any relation to somewhere like the Royal Cliff or even Saranchol. Are you being serious? 🤭

How many dignitaries/important people stay at your place? 🤭

Sorry mate, but it’s just another tacky resort in the middle of a slum. No privacy, facing your neighbours. No greenery of which to speak. If that is quality of life to you , then let’s say no more. 

 

[NextG]

9 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

The future problem is that good sized rooms for a single person in a good central location aren't getting built any more. (+50 sqm)

 

I had a tour of Once pattaya in north pattaya area. 35sqm for a 1 bed for 4m, give or take depending upon high or low floor. Ouch!

 

Not a future problem at all. Just one you have created in your mind. 

[scubascuba3]

13 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Use the ignore feature for trolls!

Problem is it puts them on ignore, not you so they can still stalk

[metisdead]

Off topic bickering troll posts and the replies  contravening our Community Standards have been removed.

[JimTripper]

On 11/10/2023 at 12:58 PM, NextG said:

Not a future problem at all. Just one you have created in your mind. 

You're a legend in your own mind...

I mean a fine wine, picked before it's time...

-robert mondavi