Ford Loses $32k for every EV sold

[pedro01]

Ouch - https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/27/business/ford-earnings/index.html

 

and according to the article, those losses are going to rise

 

[Yellowtail]

Oh well, they'll make it up in volume. 

 

When the government mandates a percentage your product offering are EVs, not much you can do. 

 

 

[connda]

Another reason EV's aren't going to catch on - they are too da*m expensive.

[CG1 Blue]

EVs...I can't help thinking they are the Betamax of motoring

[KhunLA]

Just now, CG1 Blue said:

EVs...I can't help thinking they are the Betamax of motoring

ICEVs ... I can't help thinking they are the horse & buggy of motoring

[radiochaser]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Another reason EV's aren't going to catch on - they are too da*m expensive.

So are the new vehicles.     I looked at a 2023 RAM pickup truck (U.S. of A.) last year and it cost over $75,000.00!  I decided that keeping my paid off 13 year old pickup was a cheaper choice.  I bought it used in 2014 for $34,000.00 with only 14,200 miles on it.   It looked like a brand new truck.   

I looked at that truck in December 2022.  I asked about getting it in green vs the blue that the show room truck had.   I was told I could get it in green but the delivery date would June or July 2023!!!  This is at a dealer that used to be one of the largest, if not the largest dealer in the U.S. of A..  Besides walk in customers they sold vehicles by the tens and hundreds to other new vehicle dealers.   There were times this dealer had more than 1000 vehicles parked on their property!

Sales started dropping towards the end of the first obama term, they closed their back lot during the second obama term and by the time that term ended, they had less than 100 new vehicles on their property.   About the third year of the Trump term, they had new vehicles parked in the back lot again.   That ended in the covid shut down year.   A year into the biden term, they put up barriers blocking off the back lot.  No vehicles or employees work back there any more.   

Now the multi brand show rooms that may have had as many as 50 different vehicles on display before the obama presidential terms, barely have 10 in total some days.   I walk through the showrooms on my way to buy food across the street, after dropping off my truck for service in the service department (used to be open to 8 pm m-f and till 4 pm sat & sun) which closes at 4 pm m-f now.  Some showrooms only have 1 vehicle in them now.  

And the EV trucks they have.  Last time I asked about them, they had no sales of those for two months.   I think that was back in August, after I returned from Thailand. 

Most vehicle sales at this dealer are now used gas vehicles.   How do I know?   I talk to the people in sales as I go through the sales floors.   I have plenty of time do to this.   I drop the truck off for service at the appointment time and they still tell me that it will be an hour or two before I get it back because they have other vehicles ahead of me!!!   aaaaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhhh!

Edited November 10, 2023 by radiochaser

[KhunLA]

Mid size car prices in USA ... not seeing any on first page at $21.5k

 

Don't forget; petrol, oil changes, turn-ups 😰

 

Choose wisely = Smile more

[radiochaser]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Mid size car prices in USA ... not seeing any on first page at $21.5k

 

Don't forget; petrol, oil changes, turn-ups 😰

 

Choose wisely = Smile more

https://www.truecar.com/new-cars-for-sale/listing/3C6UR5FL1PG635506/2023-ram-2500/

I was looking at the 2500 Laramie.   

Those midsized vehicles are too uncomfortable for me.  Not enough legroom.   After 30 minutes of driving, my knees start hurting due to my arthritis.  After about 1 -2 hours I have to stop and walk around for a few minutes to ease the pain.   My truck has more legroom than I need, my knees don't hurt, and is the most comfortable vehicle to drive that I have owned.   

On long trips, I can (if I don't need a piss stop) drive more than 500 miles before stopping to refuel.   Refueling, buying snacks or a meal, pissing, walking around for exercise etc, only takes 20 to 30 minutes.   I have asked EV drivers how long they have been at a charging station during long drives.   Responses I get are anywhere from 30 minutes up to 4 hours!  Next question I ask is how long before you can leave, that response is anywhere from 1 hour to I don't know.  That I don't know puzzles me, I thought the EV's told how long it takes.   In New Jersey, last year, I saw 4 or 5 EV's waiting in line for their turn at the charging stations.   

Edited November 10, 2023 by radiochaser

[DonniePeverley]

If any of us are in Bangkok, we should be encouraging EV use. The pollution from vehicles is absolutely horrific. 

 

Those damn diesel busses are still around too. 

[Furioso]

24 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Maybe move to US & Canada news ...

... "Thailand Motor Discussion"

 

And you can buy a MG EP here for <$21.5k

If driving 20k kms a year, get to save over ฿40k a year when driving pass the petrol stations, while conveniently plugging in at home.

 

Someone want to tell me again how expensive EVs are 😂

"Electricity charging cost via MG HOME CHARGER from 0% – 100% approximately 200 Baht per full charge"

[Bassosa]

7 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

If any of us are in Bangkok, we should be encouraging EV use. The pollution from vehicles is absolutely horrific. 

 

Those damn diesel busses are still around too. 

Could be a game changer. I imagine the numerous hybrids and EVs already are making a slight difference. Converting busses and pickups to EV is a challenge I believe but would make a noticeable difference in terms of liveability in Bangkok. Don't forget EVs are also less noisy.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Bassosa

[radiochaser]

11 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

If any of us are in Bangkok, we should be encouraging EV use. The pollution from vehicles is absolutely horrific. 

 

Those damn diesel busses are still around too. 

At a shopping center near our condo, where the wife and daughter in law go to have nails done and an ice cream shop, there are 3 charging stations on a median separating a bi directional driving lane.   WTF was my first thought when I looked at that!

[KhunLA]

17 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

https://www.truecar.com/new-cars-for-sale/listing/3C6UR5FL1PG635506/2023-ram-2500/

I was looking at the 2500 Laramie.   

Whoa ... cost more than our land/house w/off grid solar system here, and built only 1 yr ago.  

[KhunLA]

17 minutes ago, Furioso said:

"Electricity charging cost via MG HOME CHARGER from 0% – 100% approximately 200 Baht per full charge"

Cost difference MG ZS EV vs ICE (i own/owned both)

[radiochaser]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Whoa ... cost more than our land/house w/off grid solar system here, and built only 1 yr ago.  

Yes it damn well does!  

Look at the Ford EV 150 Lariat which is comparable to the RAM Laramie I think.  
https://www.ford.ca/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/

Edited because the first linked page did not have the price displayed!!   Note that the price is the "starting price"!!

Edited November 10, 2023 by radiochaser

[KhunLA]

15 minutes ago, Bassosa said:

Could be a game changer. I imagine the numerous hybrids and EVs already are making a slight difference. Converting busses and pickups to EV is a challenge I believe but would make a noticeable difference in terms of liveability in Bangkok. Don't forget EVs are also less noisy.

Who ever offers the first BEV Pickup is going to make a killing here.  Thais love their pickups.

[DonniePeverley]

This thread has made me think is anyone using the EV charger on my condo car park spot. If so will it having a different bill or just dumped onto my electricity bill ?

[radiochaser]

There is this. 
https://www.npr.org/2023/09/10/1187224861/electric-vehicles-evs-cars-chargers-charging-energy-secretary-jennifer-granholm

Electric cars have a road trip problem, even for the secretary of energy

https://www.businessinsider.com/couple-electric-car-kia-road-trip-charging-range-anxiety-2023-2

A couple took an electric car on a 1,500 mile road trip. They had to stop 12 times and forgo heat due to their range anxiety.

My last trip to Louisiana was about 1400 miles.   If I had only stopped to refuel, I would have only had to make 3 stops on the way down.   As posted before, I can drive more than 500 miles on one tank of fuel. 

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/cars/news-blog/is-rivian-still-spending-billions-now-to-make-billions-later-44503156

 

Rivian lost an estimated $33,000 on every pickup it sold in the second quarter of this year, which is kind of impressive considering the cheapest model it sells still goes for a sizable $73,000. Considering its lofty initial public offering (IPO) and enviable product specifications, some are wondering why the company isn’t in better shape.

 

Also, a local Nissan dealer had 4 or 5 charging stations in front of the dealer show room when my wife bought her Nissan NV200 van (work vehicle for her restaurant) in 2019. 

Late Last year or early this year I drove with her so she could leave her van for servicing and all the chargers were gone.   I neglected to ask why they were removed. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by radiochaser

[KhunLA]

11 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

This thread has made me think is anyone using the EV charger on my condo car park spot. If so will it having a different bill or just dumped onto my electricity bill ?

Check if it shows up on this site , and might give you a clue.

[radiochaser]

Just now, KhunLA said:

Check if it shows up on this site , and might give you a clue.

There is a youtube video of a woman who parked in the driveway of a man's house, to plug into his home charging station.  If I recall correctly, his charging station is showing up on a charging station map.   It is his, personal charging station, not a public charging stations.  He has to pay for the electricity she wanted for her EV!

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

There is this. 
https://www.npr.org/2023/09/10/1187224861/electric-vehicles-evs-cars-chargers-charging-energy-secretary-jennifer-granholm

Electric cars have a road trip problem, even for the secretary of energy

https://www.businessinsider.com/couple-electric-car-kia-road-trip-charging-range-anxiety-2023-2

A couple took an electric car on a 1,500 mile road trip. They had to stop 12 times and forgo heat due to their range anxiety.

My last trip to Louisiana was about 1400 miles.   If I had only stopped to refuel, I would have only had to make 3 stops on the way down.   As posted before, I can drive more than 500 miles on one tank of fuel. 

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/cars/news-blog/is-rivian-still-spending-billions-now-to-make-billions-later-44503156

 

Rivian lost an estimated $33,000 on every pickup it sold in the second quarter of this year, which is kind of impressive considering the cheapest model it sells still goes for a sizable $73,000. Considering its lofty initial public offering (IPO) and enviable product specifications, some are wondering why the company isn’t in better shape.

 

Also, a local Nissan dealer had 4 or 5 charging stations in front of the dealer show room when my wife bought her Nissan NV200 van (work vehicle for her restaurant) in 2019. 

Late Last year or early this year I drove with her so she could leave her van for servicing and all the chargers were gone.   I neglected to ask why they were removed. 

Good thing TH doesn't have those problems.

 

2nd story, I'm finding really hard to believe.

[radiochaser]

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Good thing TH doesn't have those problems.

 

2nd story, I'm finding really hard to believe.

 

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Good thing TH doesn't have those problems.

 

2nd story, I'm finding really hard to believe.

You mean, the part about 5 billion dollars or taxpayer money being used to help pay for charging stations?

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/10/biden-rolls-out-5-billion-to-states-for-electric-vehicle-chargers.html

That isn't an investment.  That is the government using the people's money for something that users and sellers should be paying for!

Edited November 10, 2023 by radiochaser

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, radiochaser said:

There is a youtube video of a woman who parked in the driveway of a man's house, to plug into his home charging station.  If I recall correctly, his charging station is showing up on a charging station map.   It is his, personal charging station, not a public charging stations.  He has to pay for the electricity she wanted for her EV!

Many EV owners, inclusive, list our home wall chargers for use, in an emergency.  More than happy to assist someone if needing.  Most should never need, as more than enough CS here, but you never know.

 

Someone may have miscalculated, or the only one close is inop.

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

 

You mean, the part about 5 billion dollars or taxpayer money being used to help pay for charging stations?

No, needing to stop 12 times on 1500 m trip.   That's ridiculous. 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by KhunLA

[radiochaser]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Many EV owners, inclusive, list our home wall chargers for use, in an emergency.  More than happy to assist someone if needing.  Most should never need, as more than enough CS here, but you never know.

 

Someone may have miscalculated, or the only one close is inop.

Based on the video, I assume he didn't list his station for public use, tesla did it!
 

 

[radiochaser]

The arrogance of some people, sounds like England.
 

 

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

ICEVs ... I can't help thinking they are the horse & buggy of motoring

I don't disagree, I just don't think EVs are the long term replacement. Way too many negatives, environmentally and practically. But I'm probably on the wrong thread to be expressing that POV 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

The arrogance of some people, sounds like England.
 

 

That's too funny.

Ours is behind a gate, and we would have to activate the charging cord (w/swipe card).

[radiochaser]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

That's too funny.

Ours is behind a gate, and we would have to activate the charging cord (w/swipe card).

If I had one, just as the woman suggested, it would be locked up.   Same reason I lock the doors of my vehicles, in my driveway, too many people are thieves!!

[GinBoy2]

I'm not convinced that EV's are the future, I've always been convinced that Hydrogen is the real longterm solution.

 

Maybe EV's are fine in certain locations, Singapore springs to mind since can drive across the whole island in less than an hour and charging mid journey isn't an issue.

 

But live anywhere where long distance trips are the norm, EV's just don't work.

 

I can fill my car in 5 minutes max, in an EV you might as well go get lunch while your car is re-charging!

 

If I had an EV here in the US and I was to drive to Denver, six hours through basically the nothingness of Wyoming, couldn't do it on a single charge. There is one charging point half way, and I watched a BBC show recently about how unreliable those charging points can be, so if that's down, you are well and truly f???ked in the middle of nowhere.

 

You can carry a can of gas in your car, can't take a spare battery with you